"I just found your blog but wish I found it earlier before I wasted my time with Update Legal. They called me for a job that supposedly paid $35 in Manhattan but I had to work 8-10 hour days with no overtime pay (is that legal??). The interview is in Jersey but they assured me that the work would be done in Manhattan. Then, right before my interview, I give them a call to ask last minute questions and that's when they tell me that the job is in Jersey and I would have to commute every day there. Then to make matters worse, they said that if I take the job, I'm not allowed to look for permanent work anymore. After paying taxes, and paying for a dog walker and paying for the commute and paying with my sanity, my dog walker would make more than me.
This might not be newsworthy but I have to agree that they are some shady bastards. They also called me on another job basically trying to get me to lie about one of my qualifications to make me seem more qualified than I was."
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228 comments:
1 – 200 of 228 Newer› Newest»When you deal with Update, you have to get ready for the good cop/bad cop spiel. Good cop offers you a job with a string of favorable conditions. After you agree to take the job, "bad cop" calls a couple of hours later and informs you of some changes. If you don't agree to "bad cops" changed conditions, Update will forever after blacklist you.
Update will blacklist you if you call them about this switch. Beware and never call Update about work conditions. Then you will be out of work as far as all of the agencies are concerned. I know, I was blacklisted by Update for calling them about a problem and they even said that I did a good job.
I've worked with Update and had a good experience. But I've had good and bad experiences with pretty much every agency I've worked with. It really depends on who you're dealing with and what the project is. Sometimes the people are shady, but sometimes they really just don't know what they're talking about.
are you naive? so what if they tell you that you can't look for a permanent job. do you really think they can stop you??
They know there are no permanent jobs, only low paid dead-end shitlaw positions. If I got a nickel for every time I saw someone make a broohaha about getting a permanent position, and then 6 months later seeing that same person back in the temp pool, I would me a millionaire.
promise not to look for a job .... please ... not an enforceable concept....certainly not enforceable in a verbal agreement.. and the agency knows that putting in writing is a big joke as well.. these temp agencies have no right to ask for that...
not that there are any jobs anyway..
Update is fine. At least the girls are nice to look at. Geez, you should be thanking them for calling you. They don't even bother to call most of us anymore.
In this economy, don't bite the hand that feeds you and take what you can get. We bottom feeders have no bargaining power.
Legal Placement agencies are run by vile and contemptible people. They are worse than law firms.
anyway, never admit to any Placement agency that you are (1) looking for a perm job, (2) interviewing for any perm jobs, (3) if you have a perm job that starts in some furture date, never tell that to a placement agency and (4) never ever tell a placement agency that you will be needing time off in the future for a vacation or anything personal.
Just say yeah, I can work those hours. That is all the information they need.
Its funny, I always here awful shit about Update but Ive worked on projects through them for years and they have been nothing but, well, normal. The worst thing that has happen through them is they say the project will be a certain amount of hours but then it actually ends up being something else. But usually its something like they say it will be 60 hours and it actually is 50...
If Update sucks, what agencies are decent to work for that actually get projects?
The most important factor to me is what agencies get the most jobs in. In the past Update has been the best for me. Right now, though, they arent exactly great but then neither is anybody else.
I see the Update troll has arrived. That didn't take long.
"Permanent job" is key word for temp job that is paying a higher rate. Update doesn't want their employees jumping ship for higher paying projects. Instead of paying more, they like to intimidate. All agencies do this, but Update is more blatant about it.
I am definitely not an Update troll. I am just speaking from my experience. I know other people have been blacklisted for small things. I guess I have been fortunate in dealing with them. I mean I have my gripes with them. Some of the people working there seem to have no idea what they are doing and there were people who worked there, at least in the past, that were total pompous POS.
I'm sure they dont generally care much about the reviewers. There is nothing particularly good about them except for they seem to be good at making connections in law firms, or again, they used to at least.
"They know there are no permanent jobs, only low paid dead-end shitlaw positions."
Does anybody on this board have any concept of working their way up? Of course you're all doing doc review - you're a bunch of whining babies with entitlement issues who want to start at the top, and if you can't do that, you don't want to play at all.
Take a fulltime job - even if you think it's beneath you (like doc review isn't?). Learn that practice area, and after a year or two, parlay the experience into something better with another firm or go out on your own. That's how generations of lawyers did it and continue to do it.
But this assumes that you might actually find practicing law - as opposed to simply making money - interesting. If there's absolutely no area of law that interests you in and of itself, then you were a complete fucking moron for going to law school and you deserve to be in debt, unemployed, and miserable.
The sooner you admit that even with a J.D. and a bar card, you're not really lawyers at all, the better the profession will be for the rest of us.
WHERE THE COMMENT SAYING HOW STUPID THIS ORIGINAL POSTER IS AND THAT THEY ARE A WASTE OF FLESH GO?
THEY SHOULD BE BLACKBALLED SO THE REST OF US CAN GET A JOB>
fff
I just registered with Update altho they have no work of course..at this point I wouldnt care which agency i dealt with just to have a real paycheck again would be the only thing I care about...
They have work, just not for you.
They have a very small amount of work and if you click but aren't in the clique, you're not going to get it. BTW I'm a clicker, not a cliquer.
Update has work. Whenever they say they don't have work, they do. Similarly, whenever they say that they have work but it's being filled by more qualified people, they don't.
Yep, all of the established agencies have work now. A lot of it is the same, big projects but there is also a lot of other stuff going on.
Update will always be nice to you on the phone, but it doesn't mean that didn't blacklist you.
Personally, I'm waiting for the Update Girlz bikini contest.
Update definitely has it clique - either boys the ladies want to go out with/impress or fat saddlebag chicks who have no where to go.
Unless the client really demands high quality people, Update will send out its bag of sad temps.
The women usually like temp gals that are not too smart, not too threatening -- just sad and desperate. They are just a bunch of salesgirls - what more can you expect???.
Update ladies blow Fig at S&C - that's the level we are dealing with. Get used to it -- temp agencies are trashy
Update does have a blacklist, but people exaggerate about it, especially here on the Tom the Temp rumor-mill blog. Update calls it a Do Not Place list. Most people on it have to do something pretty egregious, like lying about hours or not doing any work, although I've seen people do this and more and still manage to avoid being blacklisted.
All agencies have blacklists. Why should they keep placing people who are fuck-ups or who show up to work drunk? But then, there are also "greylists." The agencies place people on these lists whom they're hesitant to place, but will if ever they're desparate for attorneys (which doesn't happen these days).
Oh, and fuck you.
you talking to me?
you talk ing to me?
you talking to me?
then who the hell else are you talking to.
you talking to me.
well i'm the only one here.
who the fuck do you think your talking to?
oh yeah? heh... okay... huh...
"I'm walkin' here"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c412hqucHKw
One of the Update girls told me to my face that she was going to put me on the blacklist. I called her out on an inconsistency regarding a particular project. She snapped at me, and told me that maybe I should call one of the other agencies, and hung up on me. Real professional.
What the fuck is up with this "Update Legal girls" fan club? (Probably all you geeky guys who can't get hot chicks...)
I've seen them, they're not all that. Most if not all of them are mediocre. One or two could pass for "office hot."
Compared to some of the women you see in Manhattan, give me a fucking break.
What was the inconsistency? If you are blacklisted why don't you tell us exactly what happened?
Who relly gives a fuck if Update blacklisted you?
All you have to do is register with one of the 15 or so established agencies and email your resume to the 10 or so trying to enter the market, and don't do something stupid like put the project you got fired from on the resume.
Or, as a better alternative, you could get over the BS about there being no jobs and send out resumes while networking. You might surprise yourself and actually find somthing you could turn into a career. What are you going to do, code docs for the next 20 years because you're afraid of/want to make happy the Update gals?
I live in LA, am an associate with a medium-sized firm here, and actually enjoy my job. However, I've been trying to land a temp doc review gig in DC since December, 2008, to no avail. I used to live in the DC area and for personal reasons, I have to move back there. I've been almost daily contact with about a dozen agencies, but when jobs start, they seem to only have 3 days to a week advance notice, and say that it's problematic to hire someone who doesn't live in the DC area. Can any recruiters out there give me the low-down on this? WHY can't the agencies give me advance notice of a project, so I can put in my 2 weeks notice and move without hassles?
Are you kidding? You are never going to get more than a day or two's notice for temporary document review projects. You will never get placed if the agencies know you aren't in town. My advice would be to tell them you are currently living in DC and if they call you to get ready to hop on the next red eye.
Watch out for Update playing the old double-dame. Acting real friendly like then stabbing you in the back. Is that them touting themselves above? I guess you could say Hudson and E.P. Dine are worse, but then what about David Perla sending jobs to India.
10:40 - thanks for the advice, shit, I think you're right.
10:32
Why don't you look for a permenant job in DC?
Or take a leave of abscence if it's relly important.
Trading an associate position you like for a temp position is NOT a good idea. Temping isn't exactly as good as the recruiters tell you it is.
Okay, you people should have stopped reading after the original poster asked if is legal not to get paid time and a half after working 8-10 hour days. This guy is a moron and clearly knows nothing about the temp world. People who have been doing this work for a while know that Update is very easily offended, and even though you have billed thousands of hours for them, they can stop calling you all of a sudden over some petty nonsense. Fuck them, go to another agency.
The good news is that the temp world has picked up after been almost dead since last summer. I have heard about half a dozen projects this week, and one is looking for 100 attorneys to start in a few weeks. The rate is still on the low side, but hopefully it will go back up with the increase in projects. I hope it is not just a temporary surge, but I am betting that better times are ahead. Fuck those who said that there would be no more doc review because of outsourcing and other bullshit factors. It was the economy, stupid! Maybe the dipshit agencies won't be as arrogant now given the fact that they need people to staff their new projects. In the past, they were extra nasty to deal with when they had people practically lining up the block to get on the few projects that were out there. I hope people leave low paying projects to jump on better paying ones. Screw the agencies as much as you can. Don't be an Update sheep; there are many agencies out there so don't be afraid to piss off some. Grow some balls and stop complaining.
10:32 -
I work in a very specific field, I am applying for permanent jobs too, but I anticipate a job search to get something that really fits will take 3-4 months, once I'm there. Maybe more...
Sorry, I meant 11:32.
this original post is stupid. Enough already with this idiot. P
Who here keeps on writing "permenant" instead of "permanent"?
It is getting really annoying. I can't believe there's a lawyer who's so ignorant of English spelling that you keep on misspelling such a common word.
Okay, if you're dyslexic or if English is your second language, you get a pass. But otherwise, I'm sorry to say you are really an idiot.
Re: Permenent
yeah...
Tom should really put a spellcheck on this thing so we don't look like douches.
Oh wait, too late.
Beware of Labtaon. Yorkson and other agencies are staffing for it. This is the worst project anyone has ever been on.
The DeNovo Ho is laughing her ass off! You Temp bitches are so stupid and naive!
In what way? Describe the worst.
Enlighten us Denovo Ho!
You d on not want to know. No headphones allowed, really cramped quarters, constantly berated for not doing enough documents while being charged with doing thirty different things on the interface (very little of it is acutally lawyering, but rather routine data entry). Plus, you get daily memos from Supertemp Kit T. Zwing Zung Zwang admonishing you because neglected to enter a date hear or there.
*here or there. (damn it I pressed send too fast)
Yeah, I feel really bad for you and your employment.
Well, it's good that there are projects now for oldtimers. But in DC anyway, as far as I can see, if you're not already established with the agencies, there's nothing.
12:56 - what's so bad about the Labaton project?
See the comment at 1:20 re Labaton.
It is still very slow out there.
We're dying out heahh!!!
If I don't get some projects soon, I'm gonna have to MOVE to the Projects!!!
If there are a lot of people looking for work, why not lower the rates? How about $27 an hour?
I don't think that Labaton even starts until Monday. Thanks for the bullshit lies, though.
You are correct 3:43PM, good catch. 12:56PM is probably up for it and wants to scare people away. The Labaton/Yorkson project is supposed to have 100 people on it by the end of May or first week in June, so it is a little soon to say it sucks. I believe they are bringing in a small team before then to get it started. The temp world has picked up. DeNovo, Kelly, Diamond Personnel, Clutch and Strategic as well as Yorkson were/are staffing projects this week. If you need to pay rent, who the fuck cares about bullshit conditions on projects. Make enough to pay your bills, and if the conditions really suck, try to put up with them until you get something else. All this fucking blog does is complain about bad conditions. How about giving some information on prevailing rates and projects out there. You would think by the comments on this blog that the world is coming to an end. Sure it has been very slow for some time and the projects that were available were mostly at low rates and only forty hours, but for the last week it has picked up and maybe it's the start of a bull market here in the temp world.
Lex has ben fair to me.
I am a recruiter and yes, we blacklist people all the time. And when we do there is always a reason. We don't want to fire you, you are making us money. If we have to can you, then we lose money and the client is mad. Why take that chance again when there are other reputable candidates out there who want the job and won't act like two year olds. Giddy up!
"maybe it's the start of a bull market here in the temp world."
Keep dreaming, buddy. The scam of the so called "profession" of law is unraveling.
We’ll admit it: It was kind of exciting covering law-firm layoffs when they started — back in January of last year, when Cadwalader made huge noise by announcing the layoffs of 35 lawyers.
But these days, the layoff of a couple dozen attorneys at one firm, or the slashing of associate salaries at another, registers as news, but sure doesn’t resonate the way it used to. (The same way, sigh, all successive editions of Survivor have in our minds failed to live up to the first, when Richard Hatch took off his clothes and walked away with the grand prize.)
In any event, today, for one reason or another, we’re sick of it. Sick of the doom and gloom, tired of hearing iterations of the same news, tired of wondering where it’s all headed. So, partly on the hope that he’d send us a bolt of good news from the front lines, report signs of the threadiest pulse from a near-lifeless heart, we checked in with legal consultant Peter Zeughauser, who took time out of a roundtable conference with 18 AmLaw 200 managing partners to chat with us.
Hi Peter. What’s the word? Tell us that the layoffs are slowing.
I wish I could. But I think there are going to be more. In fact, I’m fairly certain of it. I think you’re going to see another fairly sizable round come toward the middle-to-end of the third quarter.
Where are they going to hit?
It’s hard to say, but I think more New York firms are going to follow the lead of Milbank Tweed and make significant cutbacks. Milbank didn’t lay off any partners, but I think you’ll see others cut at the partner ranks, both at the equity and non-equity levels.
What gives you this sense? That what the managing partners are saying?
Partly that. But it’s more based on the data I’m seeing on the firms’ financial performance. The data is dismal, and it leads you to certain conclusions. Often consultants draw those conclusions sooner than the firms do, but they’re going to draw the conclusions too.
And what about the end, Peter? Is there light at the end of the tunnel?
It’s not going to be over before the end of the year. I think you’re going to see dramatically reduced offers to summer associates at the end of this summer, and dramatically reduced offers for people to come in as summers in 2010. These cuts could be very dramatic, as much as slashed by 90 percent.
What? 90 percent?
It could be. The firms are still way over capacity. I think at a lot of firms, the work has stabilized, but it’s stabilized at a low level and managements still haven’t yet corrected to that level.
When do you think we’ll return to the glory years of, say, 2005 and 2006?
Well, we’re still way ahead of 2006 in terms of compensation. We’re going to have a down year this year, and according to some calculations I’ve read, profits-per-partner across the board could be down as much as 30 percent unless there’s at least a 10 percent reduction in headcount.
Okay. Let’s circle back to partners. What do you see happening with them?
I think you’re going to see underpeforming or poorly performing partners managed out, and I’m talking about both equity and non-equity partners. When I talk about poor performers, I mean I’m referring not just to hours and billable rates, but also their ability to attract clients. I hear from a lot of managing partners the lament that “my partners don’t act like owners.” I think these partners — the partners who “don’t behave like owners” — are going to struggle.
Not a good time to be coming out of law school, is it?
It’s not. But it’s really not a good time to be a 2L. They’re going to get hit the worst, I think.
Grim stuff. You didn’t tell us what we wanted to hear!
4:52 PM
If he's dreaming, then why are there a bunch of new projects? If the projects are real, then they're not his dreams.
If your working on a one week project paying $23 an hour and jump to a longer term project paying a decent rate, you will get put on the blacklist, esp with Update.
5:07 - this is the recruiter - yes, you are right. that is a good example of a reason a recruiter wouldn't work with you again. in that scenario, you would have to assume that by jumping ship you are burning a bridge with that agency and that they won't work with you again because they know you will leave if something better comes along and make them look bad to their client.
That's unconscionable. So you would deny someone an ability to earn a living if they found something else even though your project is going to end in the next day or two? You really are a snake.
5:14 - i don't really see it that way. if you don't honor your commitment to a project then i am doing a disservice to my client by hiring you knowing that you are are not a dependable employee. there are several other candidates out there who are reliable and also need to earn a living so i'll just help them instead.
You are doing a disservice to your employees.
5:24 - the clients pay the bills. i know that may seem crass, but it's reality. agencies are businesses, not non-profits. if you leave a project early, that's your choice. there will still be work out there, just not through me. you have to decide whether or not it's worth the risk and only you can answer that question.
Just tell them you have swine flu and can't come in anymore. The Nigerians spin lies like this all the time and they always get rehired.
Yeah just lie, recruiters are stupid. That's why they are recruiters.
5:32 - that might work on a long-term project, but not something that lasts a week. even if we can't prove you are lying, we'll blacklist you just to be on the safe side.
Some patriotic friends of borders may have thought that a severe recession would be an impossible time for Washington to push through an amnesty for 10-30 million lawbreaking foreigners. But Senator Charles Schumer, Chair of the Subcommittee on Immigration, thinks now is a fine time for amnesty. He held a hearing April 30 to explore how to accomplish that goal.
Why?
It’s just another example the lengths to which business elites will go to protect and expand their firehose supply of the cheapest workers possible—by promoting everything from open borders to H-1b visas and permissive legal immigration. Labor can never be too cheap nor too exploitable for the captains of industry
Hence the substantial lobbying arm in Washington to thwart the well-being of citizen workers. A recent FAIR report found that 521 corporations, business groups, unions, nonprofits and the like reported lobbying on three important immigration bills introduced in Congress over the past three years. Of those, 98 percent of activity was to secure more permissive immigration laws and lessened enforcement to ensure cheap, “willing” workers keep coming.
It's that important. Slave-cheap labor is worth billions of dollars to employers. They will never rest.
I was reminded again of the shortsighted selfishness of business when I watched a BookTV talk given by Douglas A. Blackmon on his recent book, Slavery by Another Name. (You can watch the lecture online at its BookTV Archive page and clicking on the red "Watch" button.)
Blackmon found, during his seven years of research, that very cheap labor was obtained in the post-Civil War South by authorities arresting black men on flimsy charges like vagrancy and then leasing them out to commercial enterprises such as farming and mining.
Blackmon himself calls the practice "neo-slavery", which is a helpful term. He writes:
"...in truth, since the beginning of the 20th century, a new form of forced labor involving hundreds of thousands of people, and terrorizing hundreds of thousands of other people, had emerged in the South, that amounted to what I call ‘neo-slavery,’ and we should call it what it was, the age of neo-slavery." [KFPK transcript, May 6, 2009]
The Civil War itself was fought over slave labor. More than 600,000 men died. But the answer to the ante-bellum question "Who will pick the cotton?" (if slavery were ended) turned out to be: "The same people who picked it before". Land owners and other users of unskilled labor strongly preferred their labor costs to be very close to zero.
Blackmon made an interesting observation in the interview about how old habits are difficult to end:
"One of the things that became clear to me as I studied what was happening on cotton farms and in other settings across the South, was that number one, the southern economy and in some respects the national economy, were addicted to forced slavery. White southerners really had no idea how to grow cotton without the availability of armies of forced Black workers to do that work, both in terms of the need for manual laborers and the intellectual knowledge that was necessary to deploy those laborers in the setting of cotton farms and even in industrial settings. This addiction to forced labor was so great that there was this enormous compulsion to return to it."
Of course, slaves did not supply totally “free” labor because the owner had to feed, clothe and house them. It would be interesting if a number cruncher could analyze and compare the costs between actual slavery in the South with its 21st century replacement—the illegal immigration of millions who volunteer for the worst sort of treatment with very little pay.
The neo-slaves of the iPod age may sleep several to a room or even outdoors. They depend upon do-gooders in churches to help out with clothing and other assistance. The unwilling taxpayer is forced to supplement the "cheap" labor with food stamps, housing and free-to-aliens medical care. The threat of deportation keeps them in line.
Even the U.S. government has recognized that absurdly low wages in situations of ignorance or servitude cross the line. The New York Times has reported that several Florida labor contractors had been convicted of enslaving farm workers [Middlemen in the Low-Wage Economy, by Steven Greenhouse, December 28, 2003]. The same report also noted how a New York grocery chain paid ignorant Africans $2 an hour instead of the $5.15 then required by law.
In the aftermath of the noisy Postville, Iowa, meatpacking raid of a year ago, the Des Moines Register reported that illegal alien employees were paid $5 an hour and later $6 after a few months, while the state minimum wage is $7.25. [Claims of ID fraud lead to largest raid in state history, by Nigel Duara, William Petroski and Grant Schulte, May 12, 2008.] Meatpacking was a middle-class gig for blue-collar citizens not that many years ago. But no longer.
Some illegals manage to save some money or send cash home to the family, even receiving such miserable wages. But that progress is only possible because of the subsidies provided by us unhappy taxpayers with a gun held to our heads.
Of course, not all business owners are oppressive thieving monsters—far from it. But when one company in a community chooses the illegal alien route, it completely rejiggers the playing field so the cheaters win.
When one roofer or construction firm can underbid others by 30 or 40 percent, those in competition must struggle to adjust somehow. Although they can't.
The story of one builder in Colorado is instructive:
“Bob is an independent contractor, bidding on individual jobs. ‘Guys are coming in with bids that are impossible’, he tells me. After all his time in the business, ‘no way can they be as efficient in time and material as me’. The difference has to be in the cost of labor. ‘They’re not paying the taxes and insurance that I am’. Insurance, workmen’s compensation and taxes add about 40 percent to the cost of legally employed workers. When you add the lower wages that immigrants are often willing to take, there's plenty of opportunity for competing contractors to underbid Bob and still make a tidy profit…
“‘I’ve gone in to spray a house and there’s a guy sleeping in the bathtub, with a microwave set up in the kitchen. I’m thinking, “You moved into this house for two weeks to hang and paint it, you’re gonna get cash from somebody, and he’s gonna pick you up and drive you to the next one.’
“In this way, some construction trades are turning into the equivalent of migrant labor. Workers don’t have insurance or workmen’s comp, so if they are hurt or worn out on the job, they are simply replaced. Workers can be used up, and the builders and contractors higher up the food chain can keep more of the profits for themselves.
“‘The quality of life has changed drastically,’ says Bob. ‘I don’t want to live like that. I want to go home and live with my family.’”
[Whatever we do about illegal immigration, somebody suffers, by Philip Cafaro, Writers on the Range, July 16, 2008]
But now in fact Bob the contractor has been forced to “live like that”—to travel far from his home to find work, a middle-class American effectively forced down into the ranks of migrant labor.
Slavery has been a tragic theme throughout human history. Market forces with no moral leavening can be brutal.
But Rome had its Spartacus and the United States had Nat Turner. We also had abolitionists like Frederick Douglass, Owen Lovejoy and Susan B. Anthony, leaders who applied an ethical standard to labor that included human dignity.
Now, however, we have regressed. We are faced with a modern reincarnation of “neo-slavery”.
The manacles may be gone. But the exploitation is back, as stubborn as ever.
Workplace safety has taken a nosedive with the presence of millions of throw-away workers. Citizens who have jobs find their earnings are stagnating or declining.
The powerful business interests have the system fine-tuned to benefit them alone. You can tell how unbalanced Washington has become against the welfare of the American people when the immigration doors remain wide open in a worsening economy, and top Congressional leaders, like Nancy Pelosi, take the side of foreigners against citizens.
By contrast, European countries are tightening up on immigration to protect their own people. Imagine that.
Patriots have remarked that eternal vigilance is the price of liberty. That aphorism has never been more true than today—and doubly so when borders and sovereignty are at risk.
In a recession, I say fuck em. Your number one goal should be to feed yourself and put a roof over your head. Sure you are going to piss off a ton of agencies, but so what. When things eventually boom again, they will need bodies and all will be forgotten. Agencies that are too vindictive ultimately fail in the end. Just look at Update, they used to be the biggest player out there. They overextended their blacklist, developed a horrible reputation, and were left with a bunch of ass kissing saddlebags.
5:17 PM
If the person leaving the $23/1wk project hurts your relationship with the client, then I guess you have no choice. But in a market where projects are so hard to find, for the doc reviewer that's a damn tough bullet to chew (I think I'm quoting or paraphrasing Kipling). How can the reviewer forego decent bucks and longterm potential for $23/afewdays? Reviewers understand (or "should") that they have no security. But in turn the client "should" understand the reviewer's dilemma. The issue "should" be whether the reviewer gives good effort while on the job.
So in fairness, the client "should" understand, and the recruiter "should" keep working with the reviewer - once again, as long as the reviewer is doing his part while with the assignment.
But of course "should" is irrelevant. The client calls the shots. If he wants to be a SOB, the recruiter has to dance to his tune. And the reviewer pays the piper.
recruiter signing off. have to go get ready for my dinner date with my am law 100 lawyer who i placed and made a 40K commission.
it's not what you know, it's who you know.
That's right recruiter are whores too.
There's not enough temps that don't screw around on projects to fill the need.
Smart ambitious people leave the temp market for a real job.
Also, the agencies are subject to a deadline for staffing the projects. If they don't fill the project, they lose money. So they can either staff it with jumpers, or let another agency staff it and lose money.
That being said, I don't know if I'd jump projects in this economic climte. The agencies may not be bluffing when you consider that there are a lot of unemployed attorneys.
5:50 - No, it's the recruiter who is being the SOB. The client has no business dictating to the recruiter who she/he should place with future clients.
5:17 - one thing before i go. i should clarify something. if my candidate came to me and was honest about his predicament - instead of say , leaving me a voicemail at midnight when he knows i won't be picking up the phone - then i would work with him again. i wouldn't be able to submit him for another project with that client per se, but for another project, i would. it's all about how you handle it. most recruiters aren't unreasonable and actually get something out of helping people in a jam other than commission. if you respect our position/reputation with a client/the fact that we too have to earn a living in a tough market and are up front with us then we will feel like you are trustworthy and will want to maintain the working relationship.
5:54 - oh, and i'm not a whore. more of a pimp. an attoreny pimp if you will. i wss dating him before i made money off of him, not after silly goose.
5:51 PM
This is 5:50 PM.
Then again, considering that 40K parting shot, maybe you too are a jerk.
Have a nice dinner.
They are not bluffing, there are certainly a ton of unemployed lawyers out there. My point is that one should look at the big picture. Not jumping off a short-term, low paying project when something better presents itself is stupid in this economy.
5:51 - i'm not a jerk. i'm just giving it to you straight. people can't personalize this stuff. it's temporary work and the bottom can and will fall out at anytime. the sooner you can get out of the cycle and get yourself in something permanenet the better off you will be.
5:51 - i'm not a jerk. i'm just giving it to you straight. people can't personalize this stuff. it's temporary work and the bottom can and will fall out at anytime. the sooner you can get out of the cycle and get yourself in something permanenet the better off you will be.
no one thinks you are a recruiter btw...
5:59 PM
Okay, maybe you're not a jerk. Maybe you were just giving a well-deserved jab to the foul-mouthed cretins here.
And you certainly are correct that the reviewer should deal honestly with you, and give you fair notice.
And you deserve credit for riposting with grace and restraint (i.e., "silly goose"), rather than responding in kind.
So I apologize.
Congratulations on the 40K.
haha you too talking to each other are the same person, obviously
Re Labaton, believe whatever you want. Just remember I told you so if you do not heed my warning.
In DC Update Legal has placed me on some great gigs. Sorry to the Bros in NYC! Work while you can, learn what the FLSA is! "Exempt" means Exempt, this is not the market of two years ago. Then there is the cynical "if you don't want the job there are others who will take it." Being an attorney means work, not sleeping in the anonymous rows of doc review. Walk it off.
6:23 PM
You caught us.
And you certainly know your homophones.
They obviously don't let just anyone into your law school.
I am dying... malnourished of the hate that I need to survive... This is where I feed... and it has become a desert...
c'mon people, this place is now filled with lively semi-articulate discussion.
WHERE ARE ALL THE HATERS? DID THEY ALL GET JOBS?!?!?!
Still with this crap post?? really?
I hate. VIOLENCE IS A SOLUTION!
WHAT JOBS DOES UPDATE CURRENTLY HAVE?
HOWS ABOUT THAT HUDSON,
WHAT PROJECTS DO THEY CURRENTLY HAVE GOING?
come on don't be so shy and siissy
comments are being deleted now?
Please do not spam the board.
Labaton is bad news. Really, stay away. Seriously. They live in Seinfeld Bizzaro world.
The associates suck, they don't even know what is going on with the case the work on but when they screw it up, they find a way to blame the temps. The partners are mutants.
Also its a plaintiff firm, so if you work there, you will be conflicting yourself out of all sorts of work in the future.
nah, you deleted at least one non spam from me...its cool though, your blog
Will Labaton be through Yorkson? I can't stand Yorkson. They really jerk you around.
I'd still like to hear some discussion of the DC market.
DC market ='s dead. Every unemployed lawyer in America is caravaning into Obama's Washington. Not enough document review, plenty of unemployment handouts to go around.
Yeah but the project probably beats being unemployed. Also, when something better comes along, you can like quit and move to the next project.
Look on the bright side, at least there are projects again.
According to recruiter, you can never leave a project.
8:36 - That contradicts a commenter on an earlier thread. He/she mentioned getting emails in one week for three different DC projects, and even pasted the emails with his/her post.
How about getting blacklisted even before the project starts! Don't you love it when these agency prima donna's think that when they "offer" you a proposed project that you are going to clear your entire schedule? God forbid you start working somewhere else. Don't these Gucci wearing girls realize that we all don't have trust funds and we can't sit around waiting for work to begin?
8:59 - The client requires the recruiter to staff the project on short notice. If the recruiter doesn't comply, the client goes elsewhere. So the recruiter must demand that the contract attorneys be available immediately. And in this market, there are more than enough who are. What about this situation didn't you already know? And how is the recruiter at fault?
9:52
That's precisely why blacklisting any attorney who screws something up would be a terrible buisness model.
10:00 - What? Maybe it's my fault, but your comment makes no sense to me.
10:10
Because there aren't enough temps with a clean record to fill the positions.
Say an agency has to fill 50 slots and they already have 500 or so temps already working. They don't have enough canidates available to fill those 50 positions. Since they have to fill them in a short period of time, they don't have the time to interview a new set of canidates. So they'll fill them with people on the grey or cautionary list.
If the agency continues to blacklist people, they'll run out of canidates for the positions. This is bad buisness for the placement agency since the client wants the attorneys immedietly.
You also have to bear in mind that most reasonable employees only temp for short periods of time while they're looking for a permenant job (you know, one that provides experience). Since there are permenant positions avialable, they find them. So out of the remaining canidates, there's not that many temps that don't screw stuff up.
Obviously, there's good employees who enjoy the temp work and stay in the buisness, but there's not that many of them. Certainly not enough to fill the positions under normal market conditions.
It's nice to have an adult's view on the business. Thank you for the rational discourse.
12:14 - Oh. Okay. I was confused because I was mistakenly assuming that you were addressing the point 8:52 raised.
I wish you were right, because thst would make things better for temps who show up sober, stay awake, and actually work. But I'm betting that there are hordes of temps who meet those three criteria and still can't get projects. And if the agencies were supplying stoned/lazy temps to meet short notice demands, they'd be getting in trouble for that reason, and so they and the clients would have to be more accommodating to the responsible temps, and the responsible temps wouldn't be having the problems they're experiencing now in trying to get work.
12:57
Things are out of whack because of all the layoffs in the legal industry.
At the moment, the attorneys that couldn't find a job and started to temp are in a better position than recent grads that had offers resended or attorneys with signifigant substanative experience. Similarly, the attorneys with experience in PI, criminal, or other lower paying legal work are better off than the attorneys who were working in corporate practices.
One other point, I don't think that the agencies are bluffing at the moment when it comes to not calling people back when they jump off a project. There's not enough reviews and too many unemployed attorneys. However, under normal circumstancs you can take whatever they say with a grain of salt.
The economy seems to be stabalizing, so give it 6 months or so and things will get back to more or less normal.
The problem seems to be a) that too many parties treat temp work like its permanent work; b) that many people here do not understand that agencies are agents of the firms; and c) Too many people are afraid.
The first point maters because of the reality they assume you are not suppose to look for a job or have any interest outside of temping. This is fantasy. It maybe necessary fantasy, but still fantasy.
Reality: almost no one on a temp job wants to be tempting. I don't care what anyone says. Now, they may want contract work, but not doc review lated contract work. The number of people actually interested in doc review as a job is extremely small. Most people are temping either because they can't get hired, have other things they are doing on the side or some combination of the two.
Also, remember, this environment has not been around that long, and seems to be going the way of the do do bird.
Point b) is crucial because way too many people post here bitching about agencies. These agencies are not your friends. THey are not your agents. They are there to create a buffer between you and the client, large law firms who see you as widgets, and a way to pad their budgets so that they can get that end of the year bonus (if you are partner). That's it. The rest, friends, etc, are fantasy.
What causes all of this is point c). Fear. So long as you driven by that- nothing will change. Stop looking at temp jobs as perm jobs. They are not perm jobs. They never will be. Accept it. Don't worry about being black listed if you have a real opportunity come up. In fact, relish it. Think of it as another force pushing you to figure out some way out of the trap of doc reviews.
In fact, here's a little factoid- if you come back a year later, most likely the recruiters that banned you are now gone AND the law firm will not even remember you.
quick follow up to my previous post:
Irony: Law firms will not remember you and may bring you in for another temp job although the agency has blacklisted you for supposedly harming their relationship with the firm in question.
Law firms won't remember, but the petty lifer losers at S + C will.
I bet each agency keeps a database with the temps names. So if you relly screw something up and get blacklisted, they probably won't place you again. That leaves only 12 or so other agencies that will.
I used to work at one of these places. Many of the agencies share a central database. They use it to keep track of temps and share information and keep the rates standardized and low. Ever notice how you get called more when you get off a project?
2:22
"Sharing a database" that has negative comments about an employees performance is a relly good way to get hit with a nasty class action law suit.
I wouldn't be surprised if they get favorable reports back about temps when a project is over, but I bet they're VERY careful about sharing negative information. They might also know when someone's on a project and note if he or she leaves before it finishes. If you know that someone's on a project, the date the project ends, and the date said person left the project, you might be able to infer quite a bit about their sutability for future employment. Since some projects are overstaffed with the intention to get rid of a few temps (so the remaining temps will work harder), this isn't the most reliable indicator.
There might be some agencies that are held by the same company and they share a common database.
a) Agencies do not share databases or information. b) I am going to exit this discussion because people make shit up to reinforce fear.
Temp agencies that are owned by the same corporation do share databases (they're actually the same corporation).
This happens when the company wants to deal with two different market segments. For example, one agency handles placing temps on crummy assignments, while the other agency does permenant or specialized temp placement.
In reality the agencies are owned and managed by the same group of people.
Tom the Temp calls me Pretty Thing.
I am his Enlightened Phallus, he
My mea culpa, my ciggie on a swing.
Together, we twist and turn,
Grope and claw at steaming flesh.
Sandwiched between us: a fertile frog.
Tom the Temp calls me Pretty Thing.
I am his Enlightened Phallus, he
My mea culpa, my ciggie on a swing.
Together, we twist and turn,
Grope and claw at steaming flesh.
Sandwiched between us: a fertile frog.
Soon, law firms cut jobs even more.
I saw a guy standing outside of the Hudson office in DC yesterday, with a sandwich board with "WILL CLICK FOR FOOD" on it. He was wearing a rumpled suit, holding a tin cup, and looked like he had about 3-4 days of beard stubble.
He smelled really bad. I offered to buy him a coffee at a nearby Starbucks.
His name was Jerry. Graduated 32nd in his class in 2004 at the University of Akron. Laid off from his job at a personal injury firm in Toledo in '06. Packed up all his worldly possessions in his '88 Nissan Sentra and drove out to DC in May 2007, just before the economy started to really go bad. At first he got a few clicking gigs -- nothing really long-term, though.
Then the jobs started to peter out. Jerry was three weeks into a big litigation gig in December '08, when all of a sudden one Thursday morning, the supervisor announced that the project was being shut down, "because of the global credit markets".
Days went into weeks, weeks into months, and Jerry never heard from any more recruiters. He called and called -- De Novo, Hudson, Update, Compliance, LegalSource, HIRECounsel, all of them.
He would always get the same kinds of answers from the recruiters: "We don't anticipate any English language projects in the foreseeable future. But... if you speak Tagalog... or Hebrew... or Mandarin... or Dutch.... we might have something in the next few weeks."
Jerry lost his basement apartment in Falls Church, VA, and moved into the Carpenter's Shelter, a place he had heard about from a church group in Alexandria.
Now, Jerry roams the streets of DC every day, wearing his sandwich board, and begging for change from the lobbyists passing by.
The same lobbyists who wrote the legislation that deregulated the global credit markets that caused the housing and derivatives bubbles that eventually landed us in this mess.
Stay tuned, everyone!
JERRY'S SAGA CONTINUES....
Your writing is on the level of an untalented 12 year old.
Jerry is not a real person. This is just shitpaper fiction.
Is the Labatton project off-site or have they crammed that many attorneys into their own office?
Update will blacklist you for anything. Those are mean bitches. I worked with them for two years, was an excellent temp and they blacklisted me for taking a day off for a doctor.
The thing with Update is that it's a bunch of petty under-educated salesgirls. I have a solid academic record, Ivy League, -- and was the best temp they will ever have. But I didn't chit chat with them, didn't go to their stupid boring parties, didn't have any patience with the fat girl they put at the reception at the law firm [who was totally ghetto]. I was really nice and worked really well - but I noticed a got a lot of attitude from them. I am a light-skinned educated black girl. I already have to face some racism from the whitey's but then even the black chicks at Update didn't like me because I wasn't like them and their ghetto ass. I wasn't trying to be uppity - I just was born into an affluent, educated family and I had never seen such trashiness before. The Update gals took that for "attitude" - refinement in their world is "attitude" - whatever - and they were just looking for an excuse to blacklist me.
A guy who worked with me, who never showered, stank up the place, slept on the job chit chatted and gossiped with them all the time - and he got all the plum assignment.
That was my experience.
The problem with many of the agencies is that they tell you to tell them the truth when you want to leave a project but they really don't. Either way they will blacklist you.
The thing with these immediate projects is that you don't get to meet the asshols beforehand and get a sense of the place. You just show and find out what it's like. I have excellent credentials and don't really need to sit in sweatshops and put up with two-bit assholes so I like to leave if I don't feel the place is decent.
And each time I have told the agency I am leaving because of bad work conditions or an abusive boss, or someone yelled at me for a five minute bathroom break they DON'T GIVE A SHIT.
They tell you they want the truth, and will work with you, but they don't. Best to just say you are sick or something.
Well, 4:40, they probably didn't appreciate the elitism you give off...the feelings of entitlement you have because of your higher socioeconomic status. I'm sorry that you experience racism, but why be such a shameless classist?
I agree. You are way better off saying that you are sick or something. They probably won't believe you, but in the long run they will forget about it. If you tell them the truth that the work place is an absolute unprofessional hole, get ready for the blacklist.
The two most over used excuses:
a) I have to go out of the country for awhile to tend to a sick relative.
b) I will be admitted to the hospital to fix my bad back.
4:55. See that's the problem. I was not being an elitist, a classist. I grew up in an affluent, educated home where all the people we met, went to school with, were like us -- fairly nice, refined, with a work ethic, dignity and some honor. I was just being myself, nice and decent -- maybe a little afraid of their crass lifestyle -- but I was certainly not being elitist.They just hated me because they couldn't place me. I was black but not ghetto.
The problem with blacklisting is that any bitch with an attitude can blacklist you. For any reason. Could just be you were five minutes late, or that they just don't like you.
And then if anyone in the ENTIRE agency tries to place you they will see that blacklist in the database and not work with you -- just because of one nasty ho.
There has to be a better system - where recruiters don't rely too much on another bitches's comments. They work with each other, they should know how mean and petty they are -- and take another dumb recruiter's notes with a grain of salt.
One ghetto bitch at Update blaclisted me -- and now I am fucked with all of Update in New York and DC and LA yada, yada, yada. That's a little much - all because of one lame dame.
All because of one lame dame who probably just didn't like me because I was more educated and attractive than her ass - and didn't have to give David F. a BJ to get to where I am.
What the hell are you doing temping if you're a minority and have an ivy leage education?
They'll bend over backwards to hire you at a big firms (once they start to rehire).
I agree with the people who make up excuses to get off a project. Honesty with the agencies will get you nowhere. Besides, you're a lawyer. Worrying about every little thing on your resume, letting a bunch of sales bitches push you around, and telling the truth when you know it will get you in trouble is not the way to get ahead in the legal world.
Get your act together and get out of temping.
The worst part about it is if you are male. All it takes one stupid lying bitch on the project to get you thrown off. You never have the chance to explain or find out what happended.
What your fellow female temps do is call the agency and make up some lie about you and get you tossed off.
It happened to me a few times. I usually keep to myself on projects, especially the first few days/weeks. But inevitably, some lame stupid crazy woman will start pestering me with questions for which I have no idea how to answer.
I do try to help the fellow reviewers, but who knows these answers in the first few days. I find it sneaky and underhanded. They pester you all day for questions. Then they make up some lie about you and call the agency. I can only imagine what lies these awful slags come up with.
It's rather unbelievable.
Someone at Update must have a crush on me cause I never have any problems with them.
5:28
right, its always the guy who does nothing who gets stuff made up about them by women, multiple times.
Update girls operate on a high school level. Many woman try to snitch on each other and become members of the girly girl club. It's pathetic. Grow up, people!
Document revoew really seems to be coming back in NYC, but not in DC. Good for you New Yorkers, but what are the prospects for us getting in on the action?
4:40 You sound pretty racist yourself.
Michael Savage is a J----- cunt.
He is a Zi_n_st, fascist, racist pig.
This week in law firm layoffs:
Collas Day: 6 staff
Matheson Ormsby Prentice: 25 lawyers
Pannone LLP: 35 staff
Thomson Playford Cutlers: 19 lawyers, 5 staff
Fennemore Craig: 7 lawyers, 10 staff
DLA Phillips Fox: 12 lawyers
Blake Dawson: 23 lawyers, 66 staff
Minter Ellison: 11 lawyers, 24 staff
Hunton & Williams: 23 lawyers, 64 staff
Hogan & Hartson: undisclosed
DLA Piper: 24 lawyers, 100 staff
Fish & Richardson: 35 lawyers, 85 staff
Sullivan & Cromwell: 30 lawyers
Day Pitney: 20 lawyers
Willkie Farr & Gallagher: undisclosed
CMS Cameron McKenna: 20 lawyers, 60 staff
Shoosmiths: 25 lawyers, 44 staff
Brown McCarroll: undisclosed
Total: 274 lawyers, 499 staff
Wow--who said the market was getting better?
Did they lay-off staff attorneys at S&C or regular lawyers?
If the latter, they really should have unloaded some of that retarded staff attorney lifer deadwood.
I have a comment/question.
I was one of those doc reviewers who some on this board would refer to as a "lifer" or "permatemp".
I definitely burned a lot of bridges with some of the major agencies - absenteeism, leaving projects early, and even being fired for being drunk on the job. All of that was my fault.
I have since completed rehab and been sober for a year.
The agencies I worked with before are places I would never try to find anything through, since I know they have probably blacklisted me.
I'm finding that even new agencies, and those I'd never signed-up with in the past, give me nothing. Is it possible that there's an inter-agency blacklist, or am I just being paranoid?
Are contract attorneys counted in those figures that are posted?
Technically they shouldn't be since they're employed by the agency, but maybe the firms want to play games with their numbers.
9:38
You're just being paranoid. There may be two agencies that are actually owned by the same company, but other than that there isn't an interagency blacklist.
If there was, it would be the best thing that happened to you. Def, slander, and tortous contractual interference. Plus, you could probably start a class action with it, moreso if they were actually trading a electronic or printed list of troublesome employees.
Plus, if there was, you would have had problems finding a job after the first indescretion. Just don't put the projects where you had the screw ups on your resume. You may also have been in private practice or working at a freind's buisness as general counsel for the past year or so.
Congrats on maintaining sobriaty for the last year.
Re: People of Color w/ Credentials
Why do white people (if you are white) assume that a person of color with great credentials is guranteed a position? Do you ever read the stats at the big law firms? In corporate America?'
Reality check: race issues do not work that way. I can not speak for the other poster, but I know enough from talking to other African Americans and people of color that credentials are not enough. Race with credentials is not a magic bullet for sucess.
Sucess is determined by relationships. Period. That's why I advocate relationship buidling. It's the only variable that can put you in the game.
Also
Ditto what 9:51 said.
Oh for Christ's sake, enough already with the stupid, fucking blacklist. Most people on the blacklist did something really stupid or juvenile to get on it. These fucking 25-year-old retards who've never worked before in the professional world don't get it: if you show up drunk, if you leave a project early, if you lie about your hours, then the agencies won't want to use you again. And why the fuck should they when they can use honest, competent types who the firms like and who make them money? This is a business, assholes.
Anti-Semitic mental cases like 8:15 belong in treatment not on doc review projects. These filthy sickos are just lawsuits waiting to happen. Any employer who hears, sees or becomes aware of any such statement made in a workplace by any employee has to either fire the mental case immediately or be prepared to be hit with liability for employment discrimination.
10:18
Actually, the people that have worked in the professional world are more likely to get blacklisted. If you've ever worked in a firm where you have your own office and are rewared for doing competent substanative legal work, it's hard to adjust to the juvenile conditions of the temp world. Most professionals don't like being treated like a 10 year old by stupid litigation assistants, and they don't beleive the BS from the temp agency.
i was in the lobby of an agency a week or so ago and the receptionist who i think must have also been a recruiter (she may have temporarily been filling in as a receptionist) was on the phone talking about how so and so had left and took her list of candidates with her..so...they had to post a craigslist ad to get a project filled quickly and that worked..so...if you are desperate respond to all craigslist ads, even if they seem to be generic resume collections...you never know
10:30 Truth is anti-semitic. Silencing dissenters with cries of anti-semitism may work now, but the time is going to come when the man behind the curtain will be revealed. Oh and incidentally, to state someone is a mental case because they do not conform to received orthodoxy is all to reminiscent of how the Soviet regime oppressed dissenters.
Who exactly is this mysterious man behind the curtain, Austin Powers or Dick Cheney?
free speech
I am bored.
bigots think that one is denying them free speech by calling them bigots. This was Sarah Palin's argument- "if you criticize me, you are denying me speech."
That's free speech if we lived in the book 1984.
Here's what free speech means: You have the right to spout whatever bigotry you want.
However, your spouting bigotry alone is not free speech. Free speech is where you spout bigotry, and someone gets to say that you are spouting bigotry. Without you both having the right, we are protecting you at the expense of others. It do not matter if you do not like being called a bigot.
As a lawyer (if you are one), you should know this.
"if you leave a project early" should not be a reason to blacklist you or even to give you a hard time. This is a TEMP job with all the risks associated with it for both sides.
But its weak ass dummies, like the ones in this thread, who buy into the one-sidedness of the industry and allow themselves and others to be marginalized by standing up for themselves or simply playing by fair-play.
Everyone here is weak!! Everyone is a dummy, racist, sexist, weak woman or minority affirmative action recipient, resting on your laurels!!! The women are all prostitutes, putting out and blowing The Man to get jobs!!
You all went to shitty schools and you're all lazy pigs, vile thuggish ghetto morons and cunts!!! The agencies are all greedy cretins, exploitative sweatshop owners!!! The big law firms are self-important scum, creeps, assholes, devils!!
11:33 AM
Why are you spilling vitriol on this board? There are many of us who went to good schools (first tier and journal in my case) and are currently in a bad situation.
IF we are all such losers, why waste your time on here?
I loooooove Update! I love temping! I love money!
11:58
You couldn't recognize that I was just kidding with that post?
I was just lampooning the negativity here.
With the amount of bitching that goes on around here, and the probability that at least some people at the agencies read this board and similar ones, it's amazing that anyone gets hired to do any doc review.
Based on this board, the typical doc reviewer would seem to have the sense of entitlement of Prince William, the mental stability of Charles Manson, and the work ethic of Gary Coleman.
It stifles free speech because the powerful forces in this country have conditioned people to have a Pavlovian response to cries of bigotry, anti-semitism, or so on. Instead of refuting or addressing "bigoted," "racist," or "anti-semitic" they just hurl these labels in an effort to close debate. Moreoer, the mere accusation of such in public discourge can have very severe consequences. People can lose their jobs and livelihoods for stating obvious truths.
As far as who the man behind the curtain is, I direct you to Kevin MacDonald's Understanding Jewish Influence. Incidentally, forty percent of partners at elite firms in NY and DC are Jewish. Consider also the incredible power and inflence that AIPAC and the Jeiwsh lobby have on our political system. Consider also that according to Ben Stein, over two thirds of ovwners or managers in the entertainment industry are JEWISH. The numbers are even more unsettling for the porn industry. We are revisiting exactly what went on in the epic film Jud Suess, but on a macro scale. Hopefully there will be a similar reaction, and that RIGHT soon.
If your black you can get any job. And they can never fire you - ever! Someone has to be able to do the work, so a few whites are hired. The black lawyer can go to any school it doesn't matter and they don't have to pay for school either. It's called affirmative action! So now some people here are pretending it doesn't exist or that blacks don't need it????
Kevin MacDonald's "research" has been thoroughly discredited by seriuos scholars. Go to http://amnation.com/vfr/, which is a very high caliber traditionalist conservative website, and try your Kevin MacDonald nonsense there. I only hope tht the host, Larry Auster, is amused enough to deal with you; unfortunately, he probably won't consider you worth his time. But if he does, the others here can enjoy the bloodletting.
I'm black! I went to Howard and was named a temp supervisor because of affirmative action. If they try to fire me in the recession I will say they said the N word.
10:18. You are absolutely right!! People who have worked in the professional world are MORE LIKELY TO GET BLACKLISTED because they are the ones who are bound to feel the most pain crammed in sweatshops, no bathroom breaks with "supervisors" from the ghetto. I wholeheartedly agree.
I worked in the professional world for 15 years and only had to temp because of family illness - I needed the flexibility.
The temp situation is UNBEARABLE for those who come from a normal world.
I left many projects because of bad work conditions or because my supervisor was some MORON not fit to polish my shoes. I am on the shitlist of many agencies. They still call when they are desperate or when the client needs a really qualified temp.
But yes, many have blacklisted me simply because I demanded better conditions.
That is probably the BEST thing that happened to me, Relying on this ghetto temp world made me a weak, snivelling loser. After going through some hard times not working I finally got my act together and set up my own business!! It's been hard and I had to starve -- but the peace of mind, of not having to deal with low-class salesgirls calling me at all hours in their yucky voices, of not having to deal with ghetto supervisors, of not having to deal with people who basically cannot hold a candle to my intellect and hard-work -- PRICELESS!!!
9:38. Agencies do not share blacklists -- unless they are owned by the same corporation.
And to those who think being an educated minority gets you a great job at a big firm - not true. Especially if you are a confident, aggressive type. People expect minorities to behave a certain way -- and if you don't fit the mold, they don't know what the hell to do with you.
I am black, but did not grow up in the US. I grew up with people like myself - educated, affluent blacks - then came to the US to go to Ivy schools and most of my life never questioned that I was equal. I look people in the eye when I talk, I talk with confidence and aggression, I am not afraid to question things, I expect people to treat me equal, I have never thought of myself less and never think of anyone else as less -- and most people DO NOT KNOW WHAT THE HELL TO DO WITH ME. I do not fit their mold --and most of the time they do not hire me. They respect me in a weird way -- but they are afraid to hire me.
I agree with 3:52. I am home today also working on my business. The temp world, the agencies, those lame recruiters will suck the soul out of you.
They have pounded many a competent professional into mincemeat with their games. Get out while you are still a normal respectable person.
Once you establish yourself in your field, show job stability and that you are a force to be reckoned with, they will bend over backwards for you. Then you call the shots -- if you are qualified and marketable you can play with them--dangling that commission in their faces and snatching it away. This is totally a loser's world -- unless you are doing it with some other purpose in mind, like having a family, setting up a business etc.
Brighter future?
Update Legal temp, or Farah Fawcett?
3:07
Are you serious??! WTF are you talking about?
This kind of attitude is really sickening.
226
I question whether you are a lawyer because you do not know the definition of free speech. Criticism, once again, is not denying you free speech. I wil leave you to your wingnuttery.
352
I am in your boat. I come here to remind myself these days what I left behind. I am starting my own business. I am in the "broke" phase since I am in an early stage of the business. I have to say that despite the financial pain I am happy than I ever was on a doc review project. It's a lot of work and a lot of uncertainty without much money, but I feel like I am moving forward.
If you don't like the temp world and the people that come along with it... uM.. DON'T TEMP!!
No one is forcing you to deal with people who, "suck the soul out of you".
405
What they fear is that you place their belief system into question. It's not anything you are doing per se, but the idea that a black guy can be intelligent, capable and unapologetic about it. I am looking for work outside of law, and I am asking the help of a friend who is very sucessful at what he does. He's faced the same things you described. He's actually considered one of the top people in his field. He regularly has to go up against people with half his credentials questioning his analysis. His advise to me is to find people who appreciate your strengths. It's hard in this job market or any, but at bottom that's the best way to rise to the top. Trying to convince some Long Island white guy who only meets people of color in the work place to hire you is not the best route to go. Talk to as many people as you can and find someone to befriend you. Its difficult without relationships to move forward in your career regardless of your credentials.
459
Most of the more recent comments are about people forming their own business or moving out of temping- so I think they already doing what you describe.
This blog only proves that Americans are the angriest, most self-centered, entitled, hate-filled, and resentful people on the planet, and that American lawyers are way up there in all those categories...
It does hamper free speech; ot in the sense of the government making a law proscribing free speeach in a way that is incompatible with the first amendment, but in the sense that it fosters a chilling environment in which people suffer severe consquences for speaking their mind. For example, the witchunt that went after Imus chilled speeech as much, if not more, than any law could.
3:17 people say things about MacDonald all the time, but no one has ever demonstrated him to be false. All they ever do is call him names like anti-semtiic or racist. Since he has tenure, it does not affect his livelihood. For now, others must be more vigilant.
If *you* were a recruiter, would you hire anyone here?
I wouldn't be stuck being a recruiter and nor would I want to hire people here.
5:31 - (Sigh)
For anyone who can read with still lips and cares about this nonesense, go to the http://amnation.com/vfr/ site, and type "Kevin MacDonald" into the search engine. If you can't find exactly what you want, email Larry Auster, the host there.
As for you, 5:31, I wish our kind host here would get in touch with you, get back to me, and let me know where I can meet you so I czn tear off your head and shit down your neck. I'm not kidding. In this wonderful country I've had very few chances to deal with fucks like you, and I've relished every instance. Of course I don't expect you to leave Mommy's apartment, but I can dream.
All the agencies at 295 Madison Ave., NY, NY are owned by the same person. And they all are totally worthless. Do not waste your time registering with any of them.
3:07
Are you serious??! WTF are you talking about?
This kind of attitude is really sickening.
4:35 PM
To this person:
You have said NOTHING.
Just that the "attitude" is "sickening."
Hate to hear the TRUTH don't you?
And used to people listening to your minority B.S. all day.
You never contradict the truth that affirmative action is there because blacks need it. If they didn't why would they have it.
You also never contradict that the people above questioning this say that blacks don't need affirmative action and don't benefit from it!
Now that's a sick joke!
1) Blacks only (not other minorities like Spanish) get affirmative action.
2) They get it because they think they need it.
3) They then say they are equally qualified and don't need it.
You can't have it both ways. You're either dumb and unqualified and need AA, or you don't then why does it exist and you are getting into schools and jobs from it?
Can I listen to my ghetto blaster at work?
Sure go ahead. If you can still do your work and not bother anyone else. Have a blast
5:14. After the way these people are treated yeah they SHOULD be angry. These are LAWYERS - they put in three years even if at a crappy school - and they can't take a bathroom break or some ghetto witch far less qualified yells at them constantly? I am not a lawyer, but a writer who follows this blog -- and frankly I am shocked. I have also temped at large law firms and seen how they are treated. It is a shame. Yes, some a DEFINITELY nuts and losers, but most are decent people.
You may find this blog just full of hate, but it's also funny and intelligent. Some of these people are hilarious - and honestly I come here to have a laugh or two at their descriptions about Clovester, and Gaylard et al. Some of the people on this blog should really do stand-up comedy.
As for you, 5:31, I wish our kind host here would get in touch with you, get back to me, and let me know where I can meet you so I czn tear off your head and shit down your neck. I'm not kidding. In this wonderful country I've had very few chances to deal with fucks like you, and I've relished every instance. Of course I don't expect you to leave Mommy's apartment, but I can dream.
6:04 PM
---
Sure is easy to talk big behind a screen. Also, you prove what I have known all along. Namely the band of multi-culti mousketeers who seek destroy white America and European civilization are the ones who are truly intolerant.
In any casde, why all the hate if I am wrong? If I am a tin wearing kook as you suggest, why waste all this energy on me? The answer is because you know I am not what you say I am, that I reveal the truth. This threatens you, so you seek to harm me.
Do not worry though, the social unrest that is yet to come should give rise to a new awakening. Think of the climax in the movie Jud Suess. I myself cannot wait. The righteousness of personal conviction will be punctuated with organized violence, as required to consummate necessary social change. It will be beautiful.
Kisses,
X.
I am the one who coined the nickname Clovester (I had a penchant for demeaning nicknames, including Blackie Black Dawn, Big Momma Beverly, Wrinkled Shirt Rudey (as in rude manners) or even Stripey B. Everrude, Cunty Anorexia, Chewy O. Pigsnout, Frankerstein Monster, Big Titties Tayloe, Gay Ed (I actually liked him). Did you read my idea about doing an animated mockery of the 38th floor. Different misfit temps droning on hour after enldess hour, with Clovester walking about, with a different color shirt each time he passes, sometimes saying, "Hey guyz what's goin' on?"
It could be a variety show, he would come out from the rows of boxes with his signature line, nibble on YET another candy bar, before delivering his monologue.
This blog is funny. Half of the umemployed folks here are claiming they are moving on to other pursuits (doubtful) --and the other half say how much they hate agencies and recruiters then complain about the lack of calls from work FROM THOSE VERY PEOPLE THEY HATE.
WTF???!!
712
you are pathetic
Oh that really hurt.
5:30 - You are stupid. Your rationalization is akin to saying, "I don't feel comfortable yelling "CUNT!" at a family gathering, therefore I have less freedom of speech."
Please stop being stupid.
kthnxby
I must be stupid because you say I am. Discussions about matters of race are not the same as calling someone an epithet. And yes, someone's career or life can be destroyed in today's climate.
530
I suggest you brush up on the concept of "the market place of ideas" as it relates to free speech.
I wrote an independent study thesis in college on Mill, you dolt.
I suggest you listen to what MacDonald has written about how he is one of the few who can write and speak freely on these things because he has tenure. Look at happened to Imus because of relatively innocuous comments about nappy hair. Also, be reminded that yoou can enslave people with their needs--as the Grand Inquisitor articulates, you can enslave people if you have a monopoly on bread. People will be quiet if they feel their grievances, if uttered, would cost them livelihood. In many ways this is far more effective than passing laws. Of course, semitically controlled power brokers and interest groups have campaigned hard for hate speech laws in Europe and Canada, and making similar in-roads in the United States. So called "hate crimes" law are such an instance.
Now kindly fuck off and die a horrible death, you vermin.
2:26/8:27 - You're not stupid because I say so, you're stupid because you are of below average intelligence, as well as spineless. Man up and grow a pair you fucking pussy!! Freedom is not 'free', right? If the gooks, chinks, spics, niggers, faggots, lesbos, wops, kikes, pollocks, krauts, wetbacks, frogs, nips, ruskies, palis, pattys, towel heads, wasps, etc., etc. are suppressing you, speak the fuck up! History and righteous indignation will be on your side.
Personally, I've seen all kinds of people favor their 'own'. It's no grand conspiracy, it's people being the twatwaffles they are prone to be. But please, don't give me some 'freedom of speech' bullshit. Say what's on your mind bitch. Too many people have died for your right to say stupid things for you to get all whiny about 'Imus can't call people niggers without him losing his job, that's oppressive'.
I can only explain things to you so many times. I refuse to do so. The bit about you declaring that my intelligence is below average did give me a good laugh--as if you were an expert on human cognitive intellgience.
One further note--we live in a climate where every group is encouraged to have a collective interest for their group except whites. This is by design by the usual suspects.
Shout out to 7:12!! You are one hilarious MF!! Or as Tracy Morgan would say HIL-aa-Rious.
You should set up your own site and put together a collection of your writings and descriptions. I have not had the privilege of reading all of your works on this site as I am a newcomer.
I also worked at S&C and I can only say your descriptions are very apt.
In these dark, dreary days you have made me laugh so hard!!
Thanks to you and Tom the Temp, I have a much more humorous outlook on this sordid business!!
Please keep up your work. More people than you know enjoy it!!
Clovester was one weirdo. First he was all puffy and bloated and then he would put on these dark shades and sit in the cafeteria and look at the gals. Ugggh, just seeing him there made me lose my appetite.
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