Sunday, June 07, 2009
Update Legal To Contract Attorneys: "Shove It!"
"Update Legal announced on Tuesday that they would not be reimbursing for expenses, including those from the previous week. The total expenses for all of the attorneys on the project from the week before is probably less than $500, the average being about $20 per attorney. Almost all of the people working on this project have been here for more than a year meaning we have billed in excess of 2800 hours on average per year. This means even if Update only made a $1 per hour (what a load of crap that would be) it would have cost them .7% of the revenue we generated for them to cover the expenses. The lesson here is to never forget to bring the Vaseline when dealing with your overlord; I mean agency."
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110 comments:
Don't complain if you have been on a project with Update for a year. I can't get squat from them for a one week assignment. I'm not sure they are even staffing much. They seem to have almost vanished from the scene.
The lesson is that contract attorneys are stupid. They can not refuse to pay prior expenses. That's basic contract law.
Seems like a lot of people are complaining who have steady temp work. All the people with the steady work are griping about "overlords" and "sweatshops". If they only could live for one week or one month without any work at all, maybe they'd stop complaining and appreciate the work they have.
How do you know for sure it was Update's idea, and not the firms? We keep reading aboout law firms cutting costs, no?
Again- they can't "cut" your prior benefits because that's like cutting your prior pay. Are you people really attorneys or this site just some sort of bad sketch comedy?
12:01, you might want to pick up a newspaper some time. Companies and law firms are cutting benefits and perks all over the place since the recession started. Are you really unaware of this?
Maybe you haven't worked in 1.5 years so you missed the difference btwn then and now.
Use the opportunity to take a low paying regular job so you can get experience and then lateral.
Temping sucks. It's fucking boring and it goes nowhere.
1215
You are victim because you let them treat you like one.
What authorized "expenses" are they refusing to pay? I've worked for them, but they never authorized (or reimbursed) me for any expenses on a project.
I did have one of their clients pay for a train ticket to/from Boston when I agreed to travel and pick up some hard drives on a Saturday. The client handled that, though, not Update. I billed my time as normal (and had already hit OT, which made for a very nice check), Update did pay for the time.
"Aw, fuck you! Fuck the lot of you! Fuck you all!"
update may be finished
exactly what happened to update? NYC projects have been popping up. what's the rumor mill saying?
file a complaint with the department of labor, let them deal with the feds while you go on with your life.
Update on Update: Update is dead.
I think update has attorneys working at the S&C dungeon and viacom (the dark tower). They probably have a few other projects going on.
It doesn't cost that much to run and agency. Get a few sales girls who mainly work on commission, an office space, an accountant, and you're in buisness.
Read yesterdays New York Times. The legal industry is done and Update is dead. Anyone who has a paycheck now is so lucky.
man up and make update reinmburse you. Bunch of pussies. You could sue them
agree with the department of labor refereral. It is illegal to deny back pay, and benefits are as far as I understand back pay.
Ring, ring, ring!
It's the Update bitches calling telling you that their changing the deal on you again mid-job.
That's sleazy Update.
"We're your advocate".
Sure!
I'm a temp.
I'll just go cower in the corner and let them keep cutting my salary and benefits (oops! there are no benefits, sorry!).
Suckers!
I went to Howard. No one gonna take $ from me noways. I just saying theys usin' the N word.
10:57 Does that work? Or do they just laugh in your face. Lemme know -- maybe I'd like to try it.
Update along with other agencies is a dead dog.
Projects are rare an almost always go to people now ho have been perms at big firms and have been laid off. Permatemps or temps who did this crap for all this time and put up with all the BS, are now left out in the cold.
10:24
Care to post the article about Update? Personally, I hope their evil agency folds.
11:17
That sux. Volunteer and use the opportunity to gain some substanative experience so you're more marketable. Or go to some cheap country and party it up for six months or so.
Why don't you all move to Bangalore, India and work for peanuts. Come on, come to our beautiful country and end your misery in America.
Please bring 10;57 AM since it is clear that he has got nothing better to do than pretend to be a black person. As my African brothers would say: "SUCKERS."
This post instantly makes me more sympathetic to agencies. And I'm a document reviewer saying that.
If I'd been working for over a year and had expenses of about $20 I doubt I'd even submit a claim for those expenses, let alone expect them to be covered!
If as a prior poster has noted there was a contractual agreement to pay expenses, then I would still say, who cares, and don't bite off your nose to spite your face (sorry, I like cliches). $20expenses might be worth mentioning/asking for, but it's not worth complaining/whining about.
If it had been a situation of e.g. you requested some stationery supplies (I can't think what you'd need to buy, but...) and were told to buy them, I can understand being annoyed at not reimbursed, but nothing more than that. Have some perspective, the amount you've been paid versus the amount you're out-of-pocket is negligible.
Part of being a lawyer, even a litigator, is knowing when it's in your client's (or in this case, your personal) interests not to complain or sue.
sheeet, mothafuckas!! In this economy, expect no perks. Now the big thing is straight time instead of over-time. They really have us by the balls.
I hear Tower Legal is really good. Much better than Update.
1232
I think you are confused. You are working in a business, and, one concerning the legal industry at that. You apparently think you are doing something else. Perhaps you may want to take up donating your time to charity since that's what you describe. You can be certain that if the situation were reversed they would have no problem taking you to court for any legitimate "legal"issue. Your stupidity is striking.
1:06 You are a genius. Just go into the agencies and demand meals and cars home even though the client is unwilling to pay for them. We are in great demand.
1:06 - 12:32 again. If you think complaining about $20 when you've been employed over a year and you're hoping to be employed again by the same employer is a good idea, then you support every negative stereotype of the intelligence of document reviewers I've ever read.
When under the terms of a contract I was owed several thousand dollars (based on a contractual provision regarding notice), I pursued the matter. I started by asking politely. I repeated by asking politely. Eventually, several months later I was paid the money.
The main differences from this post being (1) it was a significant amount of money; and (2) I started by asking and explaining (appealing to principle). If I'd wanted to sue I certainly didn't have to worry about the limitation period expiring within a few months.
I got what I wanted. I still had an excellent reference and potential for future employment with that firm (I was employed directly). Without having to sue or threaten the same.
UPdate is an agency on the decline. Sue the bastards.
I just read the NYT Times article in yesterday's paper. We aren't the only ones -- read at how the partners are being shafted.
Whew, I feel better. I was going to kill myself soon.
Yep, I read it. Easy money in Big Law is pretty much over. Sure there will be doc reviews and other things, but they will be far and few in between, in foreign languages, or very very competitive even for temp work. At least for a while until the associates laid off move into other cities or work. These type A people are not going to be happy with temp work, so they will eventually drift off and then the perrmatemps can get a little of their work back.
Maybe it's time to move into smaller firms and do real work.
Great idea. Just move into shitlaw.
End of days nears...temp life or bust!
I would advise all of you LPO workers to take your own advice. Go out and find yourself real jobs. Don't waste you time clicking for your american and british overlords. Be more pro-indian!
Go out and get real attorney jobs. Enough of this wasting your time working for foreigners.
Don't ruin your indian legal careers. If your training is so great, why can't you find good indian legal jobs?
Agreed. The LPOs need to be shut down. They are telling american licensed attorneys to stop doing the work that pays their bills. Pretty outrageous actually.
They go out and find good indian attorney jobs.
Oh, yeah, tower is really a top notch business. Why is Leslie always fishing for resume but she never has any job.
By the way, if you are a male, don't bother with tower because they discriminate against men.
Here is Leslie's most recent pathetic ad on CL trying to build a resume database despite the fact that she has no jobs.
In anticipation of upcoming document review projects, Tower Legal Staffing, Inc. is actively recruiting admitted attorneys with some previous document review experience. If you have already registered with us and you would like to update your availability, please email an up to date resume. Strong preference for New York Bar admission and women.
I get a call a week from agencies to find out if I am available. Sure I am -- what the hell am I going to do? Work? I say yes, then I don't hear from them for another week when they call again to find out if I am available.
I can't even relax and enjoy time off with these bitches moaning in my ear all the time.
Talk about pesky little gnats -- get me a job or get lost.
Wall Street Journal
"Firms Close Back Offices In India To Cut Costs
Many western companies that opened centers in India to perform back-office tasks on the cheap have recently sold or closed those faciliites, reversing a decade long trend as companies look to slash costs and eliminate headaches during the recession"
Overall, they are more efficient than most agencies. Yorkson Legal's Sara Kim seems more confused than any person at any agency I've ever dealt with!
Does she have any idea of what the h*** she's doing??? Posting the same ad or sending the same emails over and over again for over 4 weeks tells a lot about Yorkson's organization and efficiency. She has no clue who she met last week or who she spoke with and about what!
Overall, they are more efficient than most agencies. Yorkson Legal's Sara Kim seems more confused than any person at any agency I've ever dealt with!
Does she have any idea of what the h*** she's doing??? Posting the same ad or sending the same emails over and over again for over 4 weeks tells a lot about Yorkson's organization and efficiency. She has no clue who she met last week or who she spoke with and about what!
Enough with this India bullshit. It is never going to happen. It doesn't matter whether Harvard Cravath alums or illiterate Indians are doing this work. The fact of the matter is that this work is so mind-numbingly rote and the rules of responsiveness and privilege are so oftentimes grey and indecipherable that mistakes are inevitably going to made. Can anyone decipher what is printed on these reams of shit paper most of the time anyway? Remember that gig at Lexolution with all the discussion about microcomputing digital frameworks? What about all those "foreign language gigs" staffed with candidates that don't even have a passing elementary knowledge of the language? The bottom line is that in the end it is all about perception. If in the unlikely event the shit hits the fan (See Qualcomm), whether a judge could be convinced that a good faith attempt at a production was carried out. Under such a scenario, I wouldn't want to have staffed my project with a bunch of unlicensed non-native speakers.
rumor has it that yorkson assignment is a fiasco, leading people on and then cutting the pay...
I get a positive vibe from Tower Legal. Unlike Update, they are always polite when you call.
I agree. Sara Kim seems like sort of a dimwit. I met with her, and two days later she called me in for an interview again. I mean I am sure she interviews with a ton of candidates, but come on!
8:20 works for Tower.
Take your shit some where else.
755
I am not surprised. I have a friend who works in a technical field who said that the services provided by outsourcing is often more expensive than people think. I think the problem with lawyers is that we are often behind the curve.
hows the big project with Labaton going? any inside reports?
Stalin and Mao are out in full force in the devil profession. JD Underground subject to heavy censoring over the weekend is now down due to "technical" difficulties. I just want to know if it was a threat or a bribe.
I was called twice on Labaton and then never heard anything again. I heard the project is awlful. Any news?
All the projects suck right now. You aren't going to hear anything about them because nobody wants to risk a retaliatory mass firing. You will know the economy has turned the corner when people start bitching again on here about lack of internet and food allowances.
9:21 PM
"I just want to know if it was a threat or a bribe."
It was Skeeter and Snuffy over at Cravvie what bribed 'em.
I didn't bribe anyone.
Business is booming over at Cravath.
"Stalin and Mao are out in full force in the devil profession. JD Underground subject to heavy censoring over the weekend is now down due to "technical" difficulties. I just want to know if it was a threat or a bribe."
It's more, a lot more. I own and operate the web site tempinfo.com, which serves the temp community.
Today, my account was hacked into by someone (LPO? who knows) and my web account was deleted by the hacker. This is a malicious attempt to silence our community. There are indeed evil forces out there that want to beat us down even further.
Well, it's not going to stop me. I will find out did this and return the site.
Watch your back, Tom!
I still want to know what people were expensing?
why do you care what they were expensing? Severe case of identity projection?
Update made me a shitload of money in DC but never gave a damn. Very sad. They signed us up with professional recruiters then maintained us with 19yo-21yo girls. Sherri Cohen tried to be helpful but she wasn't a lawyer. I find their agency (the DC office) to have a peculiar business model!
Brother that tags more than "NR".
I bet it was Joan King and her LPO flying monkeys.
I wonder if other professions have a site like this. I doubt viable fields like pharmacy or dentistry need such a forum.
I looked at two apartments tonight. The first building was owned by a hispanic immigrant who has a wood floor installation business. He has one truck on the road and just bought a $500,000 plus colonial. He was about 35. The second unit was owned by a young CPA who worked for a corporation. He just became divorced and bought a huge split level and gutted it. The home had to be well over $550,000.
Not every profession is eviscerated. I have a terrible feeling that for the majority of lawyers, the field is permanently shot. It is sad when tradesman, who don't speak English, can substantially out earn us.
People who work as temps wonder why no one would ever hire them.
Taking no benefits and losing $20 a week.
You are the lowest of the low.
You cannot represent yourself. Who would ever want to be your clients?
"Aw, fuck you! Fuck the lot of you! Fuck you all!"
My education at Howard taught me the things I need to know to make sure I don't get treated with discrimination.
F all of you temps!
P.S. Hudson and Yorkson are very high quality corporations.
Tradesmen like illegal immigrants from Mexico can and do out-earn you temp attorneys for the simple reason that they are not caught up in the whole lawyer image thing, do not have to accept the fact that they wasted $200,000 and three years, and have a modicum of business sense.
Temps at places like Skadden still think of themselves as better than people like this who own their own small businesses.
While in fact they are much better than you, richer, and more successful. And probably much happier human beings.
Go call Update and beg for your $20 back, losers!
12:27
"You cannot represent yourself. Who would ever want to be your clients?"
Are you retarded? You don't start, file, or hell, even bother thinking about taking legal action over $20, the cost far outweighs the gain.
The point of the post, I think, is that it is just a petty, dickish move by an ill run agency. Small perks, that cost little to the employer, instill a sense of decency to, and therefore loyalty by, the employee. The reverse is also true. This is business psychology 101. You, and the agency, fail for not understanding it.
8:22
You're projecting, please stop it. It's a sign of mental imbalance.
Pursuing law, like any career, is not a simple cost benefit analysis. By your logic we should all want to become slum lords. Little cash outlay, high profits, no personal feelings involved.
People choose to do what they do in part because they believe they are suited to it and/or it will give them satisfaction. Whether lawyer, doctor, small businessman, tradesman, laborer etc. etc.
The gripe here is that yes, as you point out, to become a lawyer you are essentially looking at a life of indentured servitude. This reflects poorly our current system where law schools and lenders collude to screw aspiring attorneys. We are all poorer for not having a better system in which a career that can help t serve many has been reduced to a race to the bottom for survival.
In short, you have no clue.
Is Leslie Fertel at Tower really a lesbia? I heard that a female attorny is suing Tower because Leslie really came on strong to her.
8:22
Well said! Except you meant that many attorneys DON'T have a modicum of business sense... "modicum" means something like "threshhold level".
Gee, I wish Leslie at Tower was my requiter now that she is under suspicion of lesbianism.
Me too. Does anyone know if Leslie has done any lesbian movies or maybe something on Youtube with other girls?
That's exactly right. Such a nominal sum of money. This is just a small example of what a great strangle hold the lenders and big law firms have over the contract attorney slaves. People will be willing to put up with anything (and I mean anything) not to have their credit rating trashed.
Guys,
Lay off the victimized lawyer crap.
It's not a bad profession as long as you have some initiative and do something besides temping.
So you don't make as much as you would temping for like a year, and that's if you're a super temp (Most temps probably don't clear 65K per year). Boo Hoo. Even if you could consistently make 100K per year temping, why the hell would yo want to? Sitting in front of a computer clicking 12 hours a day isn't exactly my idea of a career.
Has anyone tried freelancelaw.com, which promises to hook up temporary legal workers and law firms directly. There was an ad on craigslist yesterday?
Just interviewed for a project with De Novo. Told they were still negotiating pay rate, but that the days of regular $35 per hour projects are "over."
Shocking, I know.
10:43 & 10:51
The answer to your question is YES. Leslie has done lesbian porn. I saw her in a movie titled, Fat, Hairy, Stinky, Pussied Lesbians Go Wild.
I got it at a store on 42nd by you can probably get in on the net.
Tower is the absolute worst. Can you really trust a bunch of worthless turncoat bitches? If these are the kind of people that you want to work for, go right ahead.
4:28 - Turncoat? You most likely work for the former agency they departed. What was it, De Novo or Update or Lex? I'm not sure, but what other reason would you have for calling them 'turncoats'? That's just weird. Weirdy.
Oh, also, I doubted that agencies trolled this blog for a long time. I mean, they make money hand over fist no matter what, right? Who cares what people say on an anonymous board?
4:28 has pretty much solidified that agencies (well, at least AN agency) trolls here.
If anyone knows where the people departed from in 4:28's post, it's pretty convincing to me that that agency trolls this board.
What can I say about Tower Legal. In the long run, they will probably be no different than Update. As a contract attorney, who gives a shit? Bill your hours and get paid. Does it really matter who you are working for? During the boom years, Update definitely was getting too big for their own good and was demonstrating monopolistic tendencies. Monopolies in any sector are no good. For that reason, I wish Leslie and Tower all the best.
Can we all stop eating each other alive? We should all be concentrating on ridding the industry of scum bottom feeders LPO's like David Perla and Clutch.
4:52 - I agree. But both agencies AND K attys should be aware of the weird ass campaign agencies wage against one another on this board.
For quite some time I assumed that it was several lone nut-job attys saying crazy stuff on here. Now I'm pretty sure it's mostly agencies trying to either discredit each other and/or K attys in general in order to better position themselves.
I mean, if you trash another agency, then they're less likely to get business right? And if you post as a crazy K atty, the legit gripe posts have less legitimacy, right?
Just saying, go with your experience over the crap here. Most K attys just want to make a living and not be fucked with. And most agencies just want to make a dollar. My presumption is always beware of agencies, but don't buy into the vague accusations here. Specifics (like Update in this post) *actually* doing something crappy is what I rely on for legit info.
Perception trumps reality.
Agencies project the image that they are acting professional. All you have to do is try to project the image that you are a professional. It's all very fake, but just play the game.
Leslie Fertel introduced the concept of "blacklising" a person while she was at Update. Doesn't that say volumes about her personality? Why would you work for someone like that?
519 is absolutely right. This is American business 101. It's all perception and shifting of risk.
I thought Mr Figaro has to leave S&C because he was getting it on, and even married Wendy P... WTF He is still there...what a major conflict of interest. Update is favored big time because she is providing the goods in more ways than one. DOG eat dog world Holy MOSES WTF Sullivan would care if it were the mainenance department. Man OOOO man nothing is lower than being a temp or sullivan Litgation anaLOSER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
If an agency gets me a gig and pays me on time, they've dome their job. People get their expectations out of line with realit, especially now.
We are in tough times indeed, no frills.
I think Alex Gayllard is the worst offender of the staff atty scumbags at S&C. I feel sorry for him in a way. He is possessed by his own mental illness. At least we can move on to another project with a reasonable mind intact.
That fuck is consumed with self importance, cheats on his wife, has no sense or skills and just is a general overall Jerkoff. Doesn't he even have a mirror to see what he looks like leaving the house in the morning? He prances around in tight pants and wrinkled shirts. Yeah, he is biglaw material.
I'm not certain electroconvulsive shock therapy could cure his psychosis.
Alex is sort of sexy in his messy way. I have checked him out. :)
Figgy and Saggy boobs OMG OMG you are so lying! OMG. What a yuck yuck sight that must be......... Blaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh I just vomited my cookies
Hands off, bitch. Alex is mine ;)
I hate that bitch Wendy. She was always telling me what to do, what to wear, how to act at S&C in that fake baby voice of hers while she was showing up in necklines down to her navel spilling her saggy boobs and blowing Fig all this time!!!What the fuck???? How dare she. What right did she have to tell us to be "professional" what a joke. How about taking yer own advice lady...makes me sick too. This should be looked into by S&C.
When I was told by one agency that Fig accepted his bribes -- I had no idea what he meant. Well I see his Johnson has been taking them.
I bet it's gigmungus Woooooffff
S&C managers can do as they please Mr P has been shagging BIG Fat Ass JennyR since they were SALAs abusing the system back on a case out of state (my friend was a contract attorney under their supervision). LOL they both got paid for doing THE DEED Unbelievable shit has been going on at the Sullivan camp.
I feel like I am missing something not being in the Sullivan basement. It sounds like a hilarious place full of psychos. I'd love to work there a few weeks just to see these scumbuckets.
No you wouldn't. Trust me. They are just a bunch of ghetto goons and would leave a bad taste in your mouth. I just can't believe a firm like S&C hires these kind of people. I have met about five staff attorneys that are truly classy and worthy of being there.
The rest -- appalling.
It's funny in the eginning but as you get to know them they are very sad depressed middle aged losers with a VERY DARK SIDE!!!!
Many of the staff attonerys use temps as an escort service.
And why shouldn't they Update lady is blowing Fig, Jenny is blowing Mr P, -- like children, if they see their parents behave this way, they will too...
How is good old Kemp Parchment? is he still making youtube videos and making people who wear sneakers go home and change?
sullivan is a fucking joke of a firm, one of the partners got caught looking at kiddie porn on his computer and was canned and escorted out by security.
What in the hell is going on at S & C?? I have worked there on numerous occasions, just recently, as a matter of fact and I was not aware that Wendy (from Update) was having a full blown affair with Figaro. I can not even remember who Figaro is...is he one of the Litigation Analysts??
Fig aka Conehead is "massa" of staff losers/attorneys.
When I was there I befriended many staff attorneys, cleaning ladies, security guards - hey what the hell else are you supposed to do as a temp?? Work??
I heard many many stories about partners getting it on - one was caught by a security guard shagging a blond paralegal in a conference room. La, La, La, La...
Gayllard better be careful. When he gets shitcanned from S&C, few doors are going to be open for him. I can't wait to see him as a temp clicking while sipping his free coffee and brown bagging it.
Here is a fucking joke...some scumbag wants an experienced securities lawyer for a document review and is offering $25.00 an hour. I bet he will get resumes responding to his blind ad.
This is paralegal pay at best. Hello...?
Experienced Lawyer Needed for Document Review (Midtown West)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Reply to: job-3uwd3-1215105332@craigslist.org [Errors when replying to ads?]
Date: 2009-06-10, 3:31PM EDT
Securities Class Action Litigation Firm is looking for an experienced (1-3 years) lawyer for a temporary document review assignment. This project is estimated to last between three (3) and four (4) months.
Compensation: Compensation : $25 / hr
Principals only. Recruiters, please don't contact this job poster.
Please, no phone calls about this job!
Please do not contact job poster about other services, products or commercial interests.
PostingID: 1215105332
This is a plaintiff's case. The poor bastard who accepts will be conflicted out down the road elswhere.
S&C is the LOVE SHACK.
S&C is Gayllard's Luuuv shack.
7:36 - its called "creative writing". Just rewrite your resume for the next job and omit the jobs that could conflict you out.
Tower legal does not require that candidates take a foreign language proficiency test! Considering who they hire, this is gross negligence on their parts. They need to start testing candidates immediately!
They are probably the only legal staffing agency that declines to test for foreign language ability. It's unbelievable!
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