"Dear Tom:
It would be nice if fellow contract attorneys are aware that the restrictions at Sullivan & Cromwell are getting tougher, if one comes to work to 55 Water Street on the 51st Floor. Given the economy and the lack of gigs, Sullivan is one of the few places where something is happening and perhaps about to given the new bailout on AIG.
So, if you are called to work at 55 Water Street come prepared to egress every time you leave the 51st floor, you will be required to card in and out of the floor. There are very few seats in a very small pantry on the floor---if anything you can eat downstairs in the cafeteria. Be prepared to card in and out.
Taking too long in the bathroom is off limits as the litigation support supervisor, Figaro ---has been alerted that people are in the bathrooms and hallways too long. Anyone who is caught violating this policy will be terminated. There are a couple of specialists who will report you so to be safe, step downstairs in the lobby if you have to make a call, for example.
Be also prepared to either freeze or be in an area with poor air ventilation, or no ventilation at all.
Be also prepared to have your 55 Water Street ID with you--if you forget it, you will lose time and money as you will be required to report to SC security and then to the 55 Water St. security office which is open on a very limited schedule.
Lastly, come totally prepared to meet a cadre of people who have been at SC for a long time (as long term temps) who have a sense of entitlement and behave as the projects is theirs. They also have formed cliques and do not allow anyone else in. If you manage to come in, do not bother with them. They are insulated and do not care about anything else but their own survival. Be prepared to see how some are the darlings of the specialists and are protected no matter what. Be prepared for long hours.
If there is work and they call you take it but come prepared so you are not blacklisted from perhaps one of the few places that has work coming in.
Good luck!"
149 comments:
I am throughly confused. Are there doc review locations where you're not required to bade in and out all of the time?
My current project requires us to badge in an out of the building, the floor, and even the room where we are working. If I lost my card, I'd expect to spend some time with security. Why not?
There will always be long-timers on a project or with a firm. Get to know them, learn the environment from them, and perhaps you'll find some guy complaining about you being a little cliquish and possessive online. We should all care about our own survival, if you do otherwise, prepare to be collecting those $405 checks again soon.
Pray for the long hours. My project was sold as having lots of mandatory OT, but reality has proven otherwise.
Except for security in the lobby, most projects until recently did not require you to card out on the floor you were on unless that too was security. This sounds less like security and more like monitoring. This is odd because the truth is you can observe work product through the actual software databases (down to the documents coded, time it took to code the document, time in between coding, etc.) used to do doc reviews. So, I am confused about why they would be doing this.
12:58
I've had the reverse problem when I was working.
They tell me the hours aren't going to be over 50, ramp up the hours, and then blacklist me for not doing them, despite the fact I was told the hours wouldn't be heavy. I have a buisness and a life on the side, so I can't work the crazy hours.
Anybody ever temp outside of the legal industry? If so, do you have to put up with the same nonsense. The amount of dishonesty in this line of work is incredible.
i only hope to have the honor of clicking away at the great sullivan and cromwell some day... i will click and click.. i will hustle to the bathroom to piss in as few seconds as possible... i will beg for more hours.. i will kiss ass all day !!!!!!!! i will.. i will.... i will...
or maybe... just f___them !!!!!!!!!!!!
boo hoo every review ive ever been on for years has been fine. every review thats ever mentioned here is hell...i guess im an angel.
Wow. That's some combo - AIG & S&C. DDoesn't get much worse than those two.
Working at S & C as a temp is like doing hard time at Pelican Bay. The sad thing is that the executives at AIG should be in Pelican Bay, not wining and dining it up at taxpayer's expense.
I would be cliquish too if i ever got to be a lifer temp. Every new person would just make my project shorter.
I'll trade you s&c for my unemployment check.
256
Having done executive assistant work, I can tell you that people do not treat you the same. The odd thing about temping as attorney versus temping in general is that we are so divorced from the work processes of the firm. On the other hand, because temp jobs in other areas are on site working in the normal processes you work what they work. If they say it's going to be 40 to 50 hour a week, it is normally those hours because the boss works those hours. Now, you still get shit upon other ways. Ie, someone does not like you, and you are gone versus the experience of an employee who does not have to worry about whether the boss is looking for a pretty blonde over a brunette, or a woman over a man assistant, etc. But, hours was never a factor.
Is that bag of shit, Alex Gallard, still a tempo staff attorney there? Maybe they got smart and fired him or were lucky and laid his sorry ass off.
Boy, "card in/card out", that's your complaint? You sound like a whiny little milennial.
This is called working in a secure, professional environment. This is utterly laughable, Tom. How can you post this garbage, it makes us all look bad.
Let me get this straight, we have no work and you retards are complaining about BADGES and cell phone policy?
I'm sorry, I've read this blog for years, but this is such bush league garbage. How can you complain about this, it makes you look so completely unprofessional and unsophisticated. Are you from a small town in the USA or Nigeria?
All firms in NYC pretty much use swipe cards. How pitiful you would find this questionable. This must be your first project and this rate, your last.
Whiny, sniveling crybaby. You embarass our profession.
Boy, "card in/card out", that's your complaint? You sound like a whiny little milennial.
This is called working in a secure, professional environment. This is utterly laughable, Tom. How can you post this garbage, it makes us all look bad.
Let me get this straight, we have no work and you retards are complaining about BADGES and cell phone policy?
I'm sorry, I've read this blog for years, but this is such bush league garbage. How can you complain about this, it makes you look so completely unprofessional and unsophisticated. Are you from a small town in the USA or Nigeria?
All firms in NYC pretty much use swipe cards. How pitiful you would find this questionable. This must be your first project and this rate, your last.
Whiny, sniveling crybaby. You embarass our profession.
Everyone has badges? That place is like a robotic prison where you can hear clicks in the wall tracking your every movement.
no self respecting person would work at S&C for long. this place is truly the pits and the "legal analysts" (aka doc review supervisors) they hire are some of the dumbest people i've ever met.
I there any doc review at all going on in DC?
this post seems a little behind the times. S & C just laid off a big group of doc reviewers
doc review is DEAD. let's face the ugly truth people
A large group may have been fired, but the Nigerians are still working there.
If I would have known better, I would have never have gone to an overpriced American ABA law school. I would have gone to a crappy overseas "school" that cost pennies on the dollar.
Don't be fooled. There is document review to be had, but native Americans NEED NOT APPLY.
I love this.
There is no work so the blacks and Yolanda Young are scapegoating the whites, and the whites are scapegoating the Nigerians. Great way to eat each other alive.
11:17
I also suspect there is an oversupply of lawyers at the moment, so the agencies can get away with a lot more. The department of labor report wasn't too positive about the employment situation.
There is a lot of discrimination against white contract attorneys in doc review.
1:35-
Are you on crack??? There are nothing BUT white attorneys in doc review!! Or are you one of those people who sees just one Black/Indian/Asian, etc. person at a project and says...'they're taking over.'
Anyone who does doc review here knows that there is a very high proportion of black contract attorneys on doc review. In fact, a number of black posters here have talked about how bad the disappearance of doc review here is for black attorneys because of that fact.
I've heard there hasn't been too much going on at S&C lately.
Work environments have become like police states all over, not just in doc review. I'd gladly go to Sullivan.
Of course, they can monitor everything now, from work product (clicks and docs per hour, Internet), your room via cam, hours via computer and corresponding swipe cards.
Whether it's good or bad is not relevant. The real question is, who will hire us?
well- the whole race thing has to do with the fact that NYC is the most diverse city in the world- and maybe a lot of black people happen to go to law school here? I don't know. If you're so set in being in an all-white environment, get a doc review in the Deep South or something. Or move to Iceland.
FYI- the docv reviews I've been on have had a HANDFUL of people of color. But to a white person who prefers all-white environments, I understand how that would be a cause for concern.
Jesus, I'd never imagined the legal profession would house so many racist twits.
Well, I've been on reviews that were majority African/African American in NYC. Whites are often the minority on NYC projects. Especially the Nigerians, who stick together and actively try to add more people form their network whenever they can.
Race goes both ways, saying a project is "almost all white" in NYC is inaccurate.
2:33 your p.c. crap has nothing to do with reality. You are the racist twit. There is tremendous bias in favor of hiring blacks for doc review projects as opposed to other legal positions. A lot of black attorneys who post here acknowledge that disparity and have expressed fear that the lack of doc review here hits them the hardest. There is a difference between politically correct fantasies and reality.
233
The legal industry has always been racist. If you look behind the stats, you can suss this out. In law school, I remember looking at the stats during 2nd year OCI for associates and partners, and thinking "wait, why do they only have 2 black associates and/or partners in a firm of 500?" Many whites here with very horrible grades and pedigree with argue it's merit. But, then claim they are somehow qualified for more than doc reviews.
That's why the black woman's suit in DC is interesting. She actually does get at some of the structural ways in which the big firms propetuate the racial issues in the profession. Whether her case has merit or not, I can't say, but her argument (however poorly written) is a smart one.
The irony of many of the white posters here is that they are often from bottom of the pile law schools with bottom of the pile grades. This is not true of all of the people of color you may find on doc reviews.
So, I just see many of these racist posts as white entitlement from people who couldn't compete against other whites. If they could, they wouldn't be on doc reviews. This may not be fair, but I tend to think less of white people on doc reviews than people of color because I know structurally how the game is played both with race and economics. Sometimes, with economics (the reality that the law is also class based), I do have some empathy for white counterparts. But, reading posts like the racism we see here, I don't have it for these particular posters.
233
By the way, if you look at a post like 255 he or she illustrates the point perfectly. He or she is entitled to the jobs, and the only way we could obtain jobs is because we are black. Of course, if the black woman in DC is right, he or she may be right. But not because it's meant to "help" blacks, but instead because it allows BigLaw to claim they hired blacks although these jobs are understood as bottom of the pile go-nowhere jobs. The real reason why the white poster is here however is that they could not cut it against their white counter part. Thus, the choice is to work with us lowly blacks. A double insult.
2:58 you can't intimidate anyone with your racist rhetoric here. We are talking about the real world of doc review in which being black is a plus to getting hired and being white is a minus. Maybe that's a way to boost diversity stats, maybe it's the kind of people who control hiring doc reviewers. For whatever reason that is the truth of the way things work in doc review.
307
I know you thought you were better than us lowly blacks, but other white people are telling you that you aren't. That's the reality you don't like.
2:58 PM & 3:05PM--those are the credited responses. Thanks for your posts....I miss reasoned arguments instead of the illogical, emotional, and imbalanced ones generated by hate mongers who would not have cared if blacks stayed in doc review as long as they (the mongers) were in firms, but now that they are in doc review (or wanting to be), hate that blacks are there....it's a dog eat dog mentality that one would have thought best suited for those other than bottomfeeders......
Laid-Off Lawyers and Other Professionals
By MARK PENN
With all the concern about America's manufacturing sector losing jobs, it is easy to miss that the newest phenomenon is the wholesale loss of professional jobs, the very jobs that fueled America's economic resurgence and political realignment over the last decade.
America has been losing manufacturing jobs for decades. The rest of the world has, too, including China, mostly because automation has made manufacturing more efficient. In the meantime, we have had huge growth in America's professional class: engineers, software writers, lawyers, doctors -- even licensed massage therapists.
[Microtrends]
Most Americans (64%) now classify themselves not as blue- or white-collar workers but as professionals. And so as this recession hit, Detroit is having another round of problems, but so is New York, San Francisco, Seattle and all of the professional capitals of America.
For the first time, even lawyers are facing wholesale layoffs. Big firms like DLA Piper have had to let go of 150 lawyers at a time, and this is rippling through the industry. In February alone, Goodwin Procter, Holland & Knight, Pillsbury Winthrop Shaw Pittman, and Latham & Watkins have laid off about 325 lawyers, in some cases cutting almost 8% of their attorneys.
Some important macrotrends have gotten us here -- education has been rising so that 54% now will at least start college. Most of these in college, communications, medical and law schools are women, and they are flocking to professional jobs. The work that America does for the rest of the world -- advertising, software, medicine and complex financial transactions -- has fostered this kind of growth.
And this has brought a largely unnoticed surge in American households (before the crisis) making over $100,000 of income. They went from 16 million to 24 million Americans in the last decade, with 73% of them having college degrees. And a look at the 2008 exit polls shows how significant the changes had become -- in 1996 only 9% of the voters said they made over $100,000. This year it was 26%. The so-called 1% earning over $200,000 were actually 6% of the voters.
This realignment came to have political implications, too: 52% of the over $200k voters picked Barack Obama, and 49% of the rest of the professional class did, too -- a huge increase from the one-third of those voters Democrats usually got.
These better educated, socially liberal voters recoiled from Sarah Palin and the pro-war Republicans to embrace Mr. Obama -- and now they are the ones hit with some of the most costly job layoffs. Soon many will also pay higher taxes. A law firm saves $250,000 for every lawyer they lay off, far more than a company saves laying off a bricklayer.
What is a laid-off lawyer to do? They principally had their savings in the stock and housing markets, which have been decimated. Unlike many blue-collar and public-sector workers, they have no union protection, limited pensions and suburban-family expenses. And as professionals, they have perfected how to do their narrow job well. But many have little direct business sense or experience.
Among the possible implications: First, I expect the cost of a good lawsuit to decline for perhaps the first time in history. So should the costs of all of the oversubscribed professions.
Second, unless the economy picks up in the next year, a lot of these professionals are going to need retraining in business fundamentals to try to get by opening up their own shops. They are going to need small business tax breaks to make a go of it, along with health-care coverage that will lapse when their Cobra coverage runs out. They will be competing with their old bosses, with lower costs and without a global reach. Some could be retrained as teachers, using their education to educate more new professionals.
Third, look for the growth of professional networks -- professional co-ops that offer topflight professional services for less and can form virtual teams as needed.
Fourth, look closely at some of the homeless you see in the big cities -- not all of the laid-off lawyers and other professionals are going to make it. Some are never going to get over the glory they had that so rapidly disappeared. These professions were supposed to be the way up and out, not back and down.
We are totally unprepared for this new phenomenon. We have safety nets for the chronically unemployed, for the fast-food workers let go (oddly they may be the only ones keeping their jobs in this recession), and for the manufacturing plants that have been shuttered. The stimulus will create construction jobs galore. But we have nothing for the tens of thousands of displaced advertising creatives and newspaper writers and editors that are among the newly unemployed. They can't build roads -- all they learned how to do was to write ads and draft editorials.
They were the backbone of the consumer-led growth in our economy; the arbiters of culture; the leaders of the new democratic change-oriented voters. They were the ones going from the suburbs to urban condos and buying hybrids even after the price of gasoline came back down.
We don't know how deep this recession will be and how much of this class will be wiped out. At first the idea of "laid-off lawyers" seems like the butt of a joke. "About time they got theirs," many people will say to themselves. But it's not a laughing matter to the hundreds of thousands of people and their families in all the professions who worked and studied hard to get to the next level in life, only to have their jobs and careers wiped out along with so many others.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123595619998905733.html
No problem 312
This situation reminds me of last night's Simpson episode, in which Principal Skinner thinks he's getting rid of all the low intelligence people only to find that the superintendant has tricked him onto the same bus as Bart and the other "low lifes" who won't cut it. It's easy to look down on others so long as you think you are not part of their group. Some people here are a lot Skinner, and, just can't imagine they are considered lesser. So, now they rage against some other group to make that group even lesser.
Or, if you like racial analogies, down south, wealthy whites would tell poor whites they were better than black slaves. The mentality has never really left, and is passed generation to generation. Of course, for the rich whites oppressing poor whites the goal was to distract the angry white masses with irrelevancies.
I wouldn't be surprised if racial minorities are much more represented in Doc Review than in higher-up law positions. As somebody who temped for several years, I found that people from Haiti, DR, etc. were very highly represented.
It wouldn't surprise me if they're somewhat favored because:
(1) I'd guess the standard of living they've got here doing doc review is quite a bit higher than what it would be working in their home countries,
(2) They maybe don't expect better treatment, whereas Americans probably do (case in point, Tom the Temp, probably a white St. John's bottom-end grad complaining to the white temps who prefer griping to finding a better way to make a living),
(3) It's a hard fact, but racial minorities and the economically disadvantaged are the primary demographic for the absolute toilet law schools (e.g., Touro, CUNY, Pace), and temp agencies probably recruit from there because that's basically all you can do with a law degree like that.
I hope most of those struggling voted for Obama. At least they got what they deserved.
With all respect, it is not unusual for all employees to be required to use a card to enter or leave a floor. I had to do this for eleven years at my former employer, and there were even devices that could detect our cards when we did not have to use them by hand. Now I must use my card only to enter. "Big Brother" is present at many companies.
http://tempinfo.com/Joomla/index.php?option=com_content&view=frontpage&Itemid=1
More changes ahead for the legal profession. Guess what, they won't discriminate either!
3:46 is right, "Big Brother" has arrived big time. This is not just one of those demeaning things that happens to doc reviewers. It is very widespread.
To the idiot commentator that thinks S&C will get the AIG work, wake up you moron its already being done in India, that's a fact.
It's "a fact" really? Site your sources.
544
Their source is the same source they have for every conspiracy they come up with- Paranoia.
Paranoid as in thinking that because there is no doc review work being done here it must be going on someplace else?
Is thinking everyone who disagrees with you is paranoid a form of paranoia?
Seen any proof presented? Nope. As I said, they are paranoid.
let's all stop clinging to the idea that doc review will come back as before. it was good for a while but IT IS OVER. as we all know, jobs are being cut back/sent abroad. the economy is in an accelerating downward spiral. the Dow looks like it could go to 5000 or even 4000. even if you don't own stocks, this will have a dramatic affect on you. the best thing to do is to seek employment in another field, as difficult as things are.
Pangea has the AIG gig, everyone in India knows that you twits.
I love the anti-outsourcing idiots claiming there's no doc review because of the economy. So that explains why:
1. From November 2008 through February of this year there have been an abundance of foreign language reviews EXCEPT in English.
2. The ABA signed off on outsourcing in 2008 and none of the State bars have made a peep about the issue.
3. There have been down times in doc review because the economy, but never on this level. There has been next to nothing in the hub of the document review universe (NYC) for the last FOUR MONTHS.
75% of the English reviews are being done in India. Just get over it, doc review is done.
Here come the LPO Trolls again! Once again here to enlighten us with their outrageous claims,
"75% of the English reviews are being done in India. Just get over it, doc review is done."
Spoken like a true used car salesman. I hate to tell you this, but there are document reviews going on right now, English language in NYC. Your pathetic dreams of gutting the American labor force are overstated.
However, you are the worst kind of lying, sleazy, douchebag. Have fun in India with your cut-rate, non-native English speaking, Non-JD, clickers. Good luck.
You're going to have to better than stirring up American attorneys on a blog. You are just a miserable troll.
I heard S&C and Hudson just fired over 60 reviewers each. Anyone know if that's true?
Where do the ducks go when the pond freezes over in winter?
"the best thing to do is to seek employment in another field, as difficult as things are."
And what field would that be in? Today, I went to the mall - EMPTY. I called my bank to reactivate my pin # - the lady was in India. Unless you are into building roads, good luck.
to 8:11: ok, then don't try to get a job in another field. instead, remain unemployed, continue complaining about the woeful state of doc review and get yourself deeper in to debt. yeah, good plan.
yes, it's true that S & C just let go of a group of people. i don't know exactly how many but my friend was one of them and he said there were at least 20
What type of employment in anohter field?
Well it depends on your background:
Foreign language -- take the court interpreter test
Computer undergrad -- tweak the resume, put UNIX on the computer, and design a web page (your web page).
BA biology -- try and get into health care
Everybody else --
try and get certified to teach.
There's probably some office temp/data entry stuff out there also. You could also use the opportunity to apply to any and all legal positions that are advertised and get some actual experience. That way you don't have to temp forever.
"Hi, Joan King!"
wow. Tom, you really really really got it wrong about S&C, almost everything you put on there is at best only slightly correct while most of it is totally incorrect. It is true that you have to swipe in and out, but most firms do that, big deal, other than that you got just about everything wrong.
To the poster who was talking about Alex Gallard, you are also totally wrong. I assume that perhaps you were maybe one of the people that fired themselves by watching movies all day instead of doing work? Is that you who posted that garbage? Did I guess correctly? D-bag.
Tom, next time verify your information before posting something so inaccurate, its a disservice to your blog to do otherwise. Normally you do good work, you let us down on this one.
To the racists on here, all I can say is that you are also flat out wrong, and that is probably a bigger reason why you are not working right now. I would not hire you either, you are all a walking EEO suit waiting to happen.
3:31
Your train of thought really boggles my mind. Do you think all dark-skinned people are all foreigners? If your post applied at all, it would only apply to exchange students who came to the United States to study law and are doing document review to pay the bills just like anyone else. Have you bothered to talk to them and find out how many of the black people on these projects were born in the US?
I am most struck by the implication that while you were in law school you must not have looked around much to notice the dark skinned students around you. Law schools, regardless of tier, have few black students unless they are HBCU's. If you look at the student body of someplace like Touro, it is unlikely that more than 15% of the population is black. Sadly, 15% would be a lot because 5% is more common. In my own law school there were no more than 10 black students in my graduating class. One graded onto a law journal and the rest were in the bottom half of the class.
I think that if you look at a document review project you will likely find more black people there than you would find in a typical law school class. Is that evidence of a landslide? A takeover? I have no idea why there are more black attorneys in document review, but I do know that the longer they are there the more they remain part of an underclass whose skills and abilities are left to rot.
9:17 you totally exposed your lack of credibility with that last paragraph. You hide behind that false rhetoric to defame those who dare to speak the truth about the way it is in the world of doc review. Anyone who does this for a living knows that.
"Hi, Alex Gallard!"
"Hi, Nigerian Sullivan & Cromwell 'legal analyst'!"
Someone doesn't know what the word "egress" means. It's a pretty basic word. It's beyond me why this person isn't a Cravath associate.
the person who said there are English projects going on right now in NYC...huh? Where?
Everytime I call the agency, they say they have no project.
I am a white contract attorney that was unjustly fired from Sullivan & Cromwell last week. I am in the process of putting together a Yolanda Young pro se complaint.
Good can, can you post your cut 'n' paste slop job up on your web site for everyone to download and ridicule?
9:30 9:24, and 9:31 1st, it possible that you are the same person, 2nd I am not Nigerian, I am white, 3rd, I am not Alex, 4, you are a pile of crap in my opinion.
I'm glad I read this blog. I always thought the white people I met at doc review were really cool, friendly people. Now that I know their real feelings about me (a person of color), I guess I'll have to stay away from them.
10:31, I now know that there are people on document reviews that generalize and falsely believe that all white people share the same thoughts. I now know to stay away from such people.
well, you know it's not cool to be white. And, obviously you know that all white people are the same. Very good logic.
I've also noticed that only white people know how to discriminate.
It's funny how the only useful post- namely don't depend just on your law degree- was ignored. The advice about diversifying beyond what you do now is a good one. Go back to school for something more technical for example. Or teaching if you like teaching, etc. Or, developing a specialty or whatever. But none of that matters compared to whining and bitching.
God- people don't appreciate irony.
I am an Asian Nigerian who attended the best law school in the US and got the worst grades in my class. My boyfriend is a Black guy born in Shanghai, who attended the worst law school in the US and graduated first in his class. I am now a staff attorney at Cravath making nearly $200,000 doing nothing but doc review, and my boyfriend is a manager at an LPO trying to move doc review projects from New York City to India.
Fuck you all! Fuck all you racist, narrowminded mofos!
I really feel bad seeing these racist comments on this site. The only color that matters....is GREEN. Focus on that.
Alex Gallard is a bag O' shit.....
Hi Alex.....blow me.
Stop pretending that anti-white racism doesn't exist on review projects. It is really obvious that it openly exists on numerous projects. Insulting people for telling the truth is cowardly and disgusting.
The whites are in control of the partner and associate ranks. The blacks are in control of the document review ranks. Firms use legions of document reviewers to pursue an agenda of so-called racial equality. But we all know it is no such thing.
***********snark alert*****************
That's right-we coloreds are taking over. You got us. First, it was George Jefferson. Then, it was Bill Cosby. Then came obama. Now, it's us doc reviewers. You need to watch your women. We are coming after them next.
11:26- LOL
well- there's been nothing but bitching on these posts. Rightfully so. But who's been protesting the ABA outsourcing opinion that led to this mess in the first place (other than anonymously on this blog)? We all need to boycott something...do SOMETHING. I don't know what. That's what I was hoping to use this blog for. Any help?
Yeah, the enemy is not each other. Most people regardless of color, get along just fine on temp projects. It is a bit like a social experiment at times, a bunch of strangers stuck together in cramped quarters.
We should help each other, although we are forced to compete each other, we should remember the law is a profession.
The enemies are the globalizing, LPO charlatans and others who wish to export our work.
Comments on and thoughts on some of the above comments:
Ohhh....poor doc reviewers have to swipe when they leave and enter their work floors....poor babies...BE THRILLED THAT YOU HAVE JOBS, SWIPE THE FUCKING CARDS, SHUT THE FUCK UP AND CLICK THE MUTHERFUCKING BOX FUCKTARDS....
To all doc reviewers white, black, brown, yella, jew or gentile, US born or foreigner: If you are in doc review, no matter from whence you came, be it up from the depths of a TT school or sliding down the pole from being laid off in biglaw into the pits of doc review hell.....YOU ARE ALL N-WORDS NOW! Deal with it. You will never ever be allowed to climb to the mountaintop. A viable and profitable career in law is all but a pipedream for but a rare few.
Get used to what black AMERICANS (As opposed to black Nigerians and West Indians) have to deal with every day in law. Whether its as biglaw or shitlaw associates or even in doc review, US born, non-descendants of African or West Indie born blacks, are rarely seen in most of the legal profession or lawschools.
Show me a black person in the legal profession or in law school and 9.5 times out of ten I will show you someone who is from the West Indies, Africa or is the child of parents who are.
The actuality is that law school and the legal profession is not very welcoming of those black folks who are descendants of American born slaves at all levels (Biglaw, Shitlaw and Doc review).
Fact is that any black, foreign or american that is in doc review is likely near the top of the food chain for their kind and any white or jewish person who is in doc review is at the BOTTOM OF THE FOOD CHAIN of their kind. Deal with it, know your role, click the mouse and get the money if there is still money to be gotten.
Which brings me to the fact that it is becoming more readily apparent that there is little if any money to be further gotten.
Which brings me to the best post and advice on this thread:
"let's all stop clinging to the idea that doc review will come back as before. it was good for a while but IT IS OVER. as we all know, jobs are being cut back/sent abroad. the economy is in an accelerating downward spiral. the Dow looks like it could go to 5000 or even 4000. even if you don't own stocks, this will have a dramatic affect on you. the best thing to do is to seek employment in another field, as difficult as things are."
Law is a dead end for all but the few Preferred, Protected and or Connected. Its time to move on to other endeavors or perish.
That is all.
An interesting, if not naive comment from above:
"We should help each other, although we are forced to compete each other, we should remember the law is a profession."
Everyone in law from doc reviewer, to staff attorney to associate to partner and even secretary, paralegal and sometimes even office managers are in a cannibalistic competition with each other. Law is not set up in a way that it is often conducive for one to help another. And if one is honest in their assessment of how most in law behave towards their so called colleagues or other human beings, one would realize that law is anything but a "profession".
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2009/03/01/us/20090301-survival-audioss/index.html
"As Tevye said, "there's no shame in being poor; but it's no great honor either." It's all a matter of perspective. Sure, for the six-figure set, scrambling for a $15 and hour job may take some getting used to; but as many posters have pointed out, that hourly wage is much-to-be-desired by a large component of our population.
I guess it's the way I was brought up, that is with old-fashioned values, but I've always tried to follow the advice of my elders: work hard, live within your means, save your money, and don't take anything for granted. More importantly, though, and the lesson for those profiled here: no job is beneath you and neither are the people doing that job.
So, if you're "reduced" to scrubbing toilets, taking public transportation, sweating the rent on a small apartment, and searching out new recipes for beans and rice, you'll find yourself in good company. You at least had a taste of the good life, more than many of those around you now ever dreamed of. Be thankful for that. You couldn't have taken it with you, anyway, and we're all going out the way we came in, with nothing. All any of us can do is to make the best of what life throws our way."
"This...illustrates two things that have actually been going on for many years:
First, the fall from a middle-class full-time job to a low-paid part-time job without benefits has been going on for years in the blue collar sector, as hundreds of factories have been closed and thousands of jobs have been shipped overseas. Up to now, the pain of those workers and their families has been dismissed as the price of being competitive, and they have received relatively little sympathy from white collar workers. We will have to see if the emergence of pain in the white collar arena changes the their viewpoint.
Second, anyone over age 50 who loses a professional job has a real problem. I have known several people in that situation; they have found it virtually impossible to find comparable jobs on a permanent basis. They take temporary jobs, they consult, they travel around the country taking short-term project work - in other words, they take the jobs that younger and better-placed people don't have to take.
Potential employers no longer look at them as a long term solution; instead they are viewed as probably being out of date and as no more than a plug-in to solve a short-term problem. When they apply for a permanent position which matches their qualifications, they find that they are competing against people 20-25 years younger for half the salary they used to make; experience is less important than price.
In theory, we don't have age discrimination in this country. In fact, it is an everyday reality."
Anyone who seriously thinks that Nigerians, West Indians or any other racial minority group took over doc review (when it existed) is simply scapegoating, stereotyping and exaggerating.
That being said, anyone who has walked into large doc review with their eyes open will notice a relatively large number of African-Americans, West AFricans, and West Indians - that is relative to their proportion among all barred attorneys - a colleague and I on a doc review speculated that while the number of "black" (for the sake of argument I'll use that catch-all term for all three groups) barred attorneys in the tri-state area is well under 5%, the number of blacks in a large doc review is upwards of 30-40% - I also found this true on a very large project in Philadelphia - I only have this anecdotal evidence so I'm not going to say that Yolanda is absolutely correct in her assertions about Covington - nor can I say that this is the result of some vast conspiracy from a smoke-filled conference room - but the "eyeball test" tells you that something is wrong within this profession
So, what do you suggest, that the agencies implement an affirmative action program to scout out white contract attorneys for document review projects?
actually, 10:01, both I and my colleague are African-American and what we saw as wrong was the appearance that blacks were being exlcuded from permanent legal positions and had to take doc review to make any money -
apparently, you thought we were white folks complaining that our entitlement to doc review was being threatened - LOL on the misunderstanding
my colleague and I were both experienced attorneys out in the "real world" and knew that we didn't see that many legal peers who looked like us until we walked into a doc review room -
as for solutions? that's a whole other thread that needs to be started
A lot of the West Africans, West Indians, etc. who are in those doc review projects may be licensed attorneys in their own countries.
Think about it... if it's kosher to hire Indian attorneys licensed in India to do work in India, then it should also be kosher for these firms to hire foreign licensed attorneys to do work in the US.
What counts is that they are licensed attorneys. The clients don't care WHERE they are licensed. The clients tell the agencies, "for this project we want licensed attorneys"... "for this project JDs are fine".... "for this project it's ok to hire paras"...
What do you suggest we do? A lot of African document reviewers are foreign born and have trouble speaking the English language. Yolanda Young graduated close to the bottom of her class. How can you bill clients for millions of dollars for briefs that might be riddled with mistakes?
10:51 Troll. The unauthorized practice of law is not ok.
There is no justification for discrimination, including the discrimination against white contract attorneys at document review projects. Discrimination elsewhere against blacks obviously is wrong. That does not make it okay to discriminate against anyone else anywhere else because of the color of their skin. Discrimination against white attorneys is so open on document projects that denying it is absurd.
7:05 you must be kidding. Do you think law firm partners are in their twenties? Any doc reviewer, regardless of age, who has been doing this for years for major firms until the last couple of months when almost everyone has been out of work can't in the absence of discrimination be viewed as "out of date." Get a grip. A lot of over 50 doc reviewers are far better reviewers than many of the immature newbies who have no work ethic and will play games on line all day if they get the chance.
TROLL ALERT!!!
10:51 is an LPO troll. The Native Africans and West Indians either have JDs or LLMs both of which qualify for bar admission in NY.
So they are actually licensed to practice law here, unlike your so called attorneys.
Again, more bad information rising from the stench in Mumbai. Anybody that sends work over there should understand how incompetent and unfamiliar with our legal system these people are. Just charlatans!
First of all, my evidence is only anecdotal, but the vast majority of West Africans and West Indians I've encountered have American law degrees and are licensed in the states. many of these folks were either born here or immigrated at a very young age. their mastery of the English language is fine. moreover, in many countries such as Nigeria, Bahamas, Barbadoes, etc. English is an official language or is at least taught in schools. That's why you see so many immigrants from certain countries - they already speak English and it will be easy to acclimate here. there aren't as many immigrants from Martinique, Senegal or Cameroon because they speak French. So I don't know where people get off making generalizations about language and backgrounds. I have no idea if Yolanda was really at the bottom of her class. In fact, many T14 don't issue a class rank except for the top handful who get some award at graduation.
I would like 11:38 to elaborate on the "open" discrimination in doc review projects - as far as I know, Hudson, Update, Lex, Dine and all the rest are obsessed with one color: GREEN
7:05 you must be kidding. Do you think law firm partners are in their twenties? Any doc reviewer, regardless of age, who has been doing this for years for major firms until the last couple of months when almost everyone has been out of work can't in the absence of discrimination be viewed as "out of date." Get a grip. A lot of over 50 doc reviewers are far better reviewers than many of the immature newbies who have no work ethic and will play games online all day if they get the chance.
Anybody heard about the "analyst" troll guarding the Huron project? Apparently there is a witch there that has it in for the temps.
What her employer should look at is her former work on a temp project at a certain pharmaceutical company in CT. She made up lies about a guy and got him fired (with help from a perm staff member). She was lucky he was a good guy and didn't sue her, he certainly had a cause of action.
She and her friends, still working temp, continue to make up lies about this guy and ridicule him. It's all really pathetic high school stuff.
But stay away from Huron and the miserable troll! She'll make up lies about you and get you fired!!!
No one who has kept their ears and eyes open on doc review projects can work for long without being aware of the prejudice against white contract attorneys that is one of the dirty little secrets of our world.
10:51 is an idiot LPO troll.
The vast majority of West Africans and West Indians on projects here are U.S. admitted attorneys. 10:51 is a racist, lying LPO troll.
2:08 is a psycho troll as well as a total bigot.
Did S&C and Hudson just fire most of the few who were working?
Stop the bitchin'--go get gov't cheese: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/03/02/AR2009030202935.html?wpisrc=newsletter&wpisrc=newsletter&wpisrc=newsletter
You can all be contracting officers or specialists......the only thing this line of "reasoning" is raising is the hate that hate produced.......
Would any permatemp refuse SC now?
i'd rather make lattes at starbucks than work at S & C again. that's no joke
1:24 how much worse is S&C than the others?
1:51 - FAR worse. i've done around 15 doc reviews over the years and this was the only place i'd never go back to. granted, i had the misfortune of dealing with the most inept/crazy "legal analyst" there (anyone remember Tiffany?) she was long-since fired but even aside from her, the gig was awful. i don't expect to be treated well at any doc review but S & C takes the disrespect and big brother nonsense to a whole other level. at some point we have to realize that certain jobs aren't worth the money
I know people that love working there, go back repeatedly. I've heard that it depends upon the project and group you're in.
So much like other projects, it's hit or miss. I have a hard time believing it's any worse than any other "roach infested" work space.
Why aren't people trying to get jobs on the other end of the industry. Ie, working for the software companies that provide the programs for doc reviews or becoming project managers, etc? Has anyone ever applied to these positions?
2:42 they usually require experience we don't have.
Well, this is timely. So far as I know there are only two or three active projects on the 51st floor of 55 Water. The big one shed 28 contract attorneys two weeks ago, and the rest of us just got word that we'd be done at the end of this week or next.
The funny thing is that there are apparently tons of documents to go through, but the work is going to junior associates so they can have something to bill.
As for the project itself, it was great. I have no problems with S&C. There were people on that project since November 2007. The supervisors didn't bother you too much and everything was pretty fair, though they definitely had their "favorites."
Sorry to hear that it's ending 2:46. I hope that gets reversed.
2:46 do you think most of the doc review we usually do is going to junior associates here?
Thanks, 2:56. I know some of us are hoping that our "experience" with some of these financial instruments might help us in applying for something at the FDIC or one of the other banking regulators, but it's probably wishful thinking. Really I don't know anyone who is hiring other than the government.
You are naive. It is not going to junior associates. What client in their right mind would authorize an increase in their billing rate to have junior associates do the review? The work is going to INDIA.
3:18 you're right, no client would authorize a higher billing rate so that's why the junior associates will be doing the work at a reduced rate and is not going to India.
Yes, the work is being performed by associates. There is literally no work for many of them and others are being laid off. It's a good fall back to keep their talented staff until things improve.
Everyone knows that the India thing is a joke. Only the greedy and reckless send work to India. It's exactly this kind of greed that is destroying our economy and putting Americans out of work.
What will you LPO trogs do when Obama ends the tax incentives for offshoring?
Maybe you can try to get admitted to American law schools and pay $150,000 for the privilege, like everyone else.
Hey 2:42 - I think the reason people don't apply for those project management jobs is that you usually need significant IT litigation support experience - even though some of us have spent thousands of hours on concordance, ringtail, lextranet, etc. - they're looking for people involved at the front end of loading the data and maintaining the databases
as for the sales jobs, they're usually looking for people with some sales experience to go along with the legal
from 2:46
"The funny thing is that there are apparently tons of documents to go through, but the work is going to junior associates so they can have something to bill."
this is probably the major reason there is less doc review right now, the junior associates are doing it because, overall there is less work to do, for everyone. so, the juniors get the work we were all doing over the last few years...
on the last project i was on the associate who was managing our project said he had been basically doing nothing for months...makes perfect sense that firms would give some review work to these associates who have nothing to do.
of course the standard response to this probability is..."nuh uh...its in India every body knows it"
this is just ridiculous...all i read on this site is "woh is me, the mean law firms, LPOs and agencies are taking away all the work" and then we get a post like this. work is work, be happy that there is someone (or some firm) out there that is willing to employ your otherwise unemployable asses.
Thanks 2:46 finally someone has something to say about what's happening that is more than speculation!
Do people read other blogs other than this one?
Big law firms (the source of most doc reviews) are laying off associates because there is not enough work. One firm just laid off 100 lawyers and 200 staff- just today. Others are rescinding offers and/or pushing start dates back by months, and in some cases, years. We are lowest on the totem pole. If they partners are feeling the burn and the associates are being fired, what do you think this means for temps? It means the work that they would give to us are being given to associates to give them a reason to be there.
Go read Above the Law or read the NY Times or anything besides just this blog.
I'd rather hear it from 2:46 than the NY Times, which has gotten entire wars wrong.
10:45-
Start that thread! There has to be a solution to this fuckin' mess- come on, we're lawyers! If we can't solve this, who else is going to do it? I'm brainstorming- haven't come up with anything yet, but I'd appreciate help.
did anyone see the craiglist ad for science project background - i created a lava sculpture in high school...the poster i assume meant science degree but who knows anymore?
10:41
Thanks for the compliment. Useful and constructive information on this board is routinely ignored in favor of complaining about the LPOs
2:42
I send out resumes to them, but they're usually located in Calif. and are interested in hiring experienced programmers. Doesn't hurt to try though. Once things get back to normal it should be a growth industry. At least at legaltech they seemed to think it would be a growth industry.
709
If this is really your interest, you should get an associates degree in programming and information management. The admissions criteria is not hard. It does not require a lot of time (1 to 2 years). The cost is low. I can't speak for the job prospect. For that , you would have to do research. But, if this is your interest, this is a way to reach it. Basically, gain the background in data management along with the work industry experience plus law degree. Anyway, it's just one idea.
HEY GUISE, NIGGERS AMIRITE! LOL
S&C fired almost everybody. Theres nothing going on there now.
Between arrogant lifer temps, the shithole sweatshop at 55 water street, twerp fucksticks like Alex Gallard, the constant monitoring, taxi desk nazis, staff attorneys having affairs with each other, the place was dire need of an exorcism anyway.
Mr G evidently has cause for his arrogance. word is from former Butta that he hasn't been blessed in every department. Poor boy.
AG isn't nearly as bad as that albania duffis LOL
Who is that? No one can be worse than the dweeb!!!!!!!!!
Just because you losers are out work doesn't give you the right to knock those who were smart enough to jump the sinking temp ship and take the staff attorney position. Lifer temps took the risk, now DEAL
Is that Iranian girl still puttering around that tinywinypiny unannounced queer??? His Pluto balloon looking counterpart wouldn't stand for it. No way in hell.
While the litigation analysts may allow you to use the internet discreetly, do not. I hear that S&C has software now that allows management to watch what you are doing...so even if you are listening to a tv show online, they will assume that you are actually wasting time watching the show and outright forget that you are making the numbers and also can see that you are reviewing your documents timely.
They have killed hulu access so just ipod everything. Nothing is worth loosing the gravy train paycheck.
The rumour is that S&C management don't have enough work and are busy cracking on temps. The litigation analysts are afraid that they will get laid off and their jobs are threatened. So in the game of survival the temp is way more dispensible.
Leave alex alone. You all are just jealous. Go get a real job, losers.
5:33, the only monitoring going on is a putz Sullivan staff atty peeking over your shoulder or staring at your screen through a peephole like a pervert. The reason internet got killed on that case is because its being run by the king of turds Alex Gallard, with assistance from asian wigger and ghetto bitch, the latter two are widely rumored to be romantically/sexually involved even though he's married.
But what do you expect? Sullivan scraped the bottom to get these people, theyre all a bunch of
4th tier losers. Sullivan is the new Paul Weiss.
rumor lol did you not see the pics the ghetto whore put up on FB? Of course, he must have bitched her out, because she later removed most of them. silly analyst haha
Jealous? You must be on crack cocaine and heroine and 100 proof alcohol. EEEWWWWWWWWWW Turdo the Nerdo NOT
10:81
whats this? T. Whoredan pics? I like booty i need the details and pics stat!
Hey there are some analysts who are completely power trip tools and then there are the ones who don't care to micromanage the temps as long as the deadline targets are met.
Funny that the power trip asses forget that they were once in the temp chair however they know how to bullshit like temps bc they are the ones who are telling everyone not to be on the internet, etc. and are outright doing things that they tell temps not to do. In fact one litigation analyst likes to sit in the dark and play solitare online while draconianly monitoring that the temps aren't on the internet.
And then there are absolute assholes like Alex Gallafuckard the diluded dork who preys on female temps while his wife with the $$$$ cares for his kids. He is the ultimate TOOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Alex is so PATHETIC. He tries to overcompensate his many inadequacies by playing POWER BOY special analyst who incidently doesn't do squat other than his aforementioned Butta faces. Why does S & C keep his uselss ass. I have worked with so many better qualified analysts. (His Patrick Star Counter part who sits in the dark is an even sadder story)
Is Doc Review over forever in NY?
I sure hope not. who is this Alex prick? Is he that goonie at Sullivan? He seemed so quiet and geeky, and never would have imagined that he made it with the girl temps haha You never know hahaha
He is said to be lacking in many areas other than his ability to be a lawyer... ask Butta LOL Dudes and dudettes it's tiny as in smallest EVER. Had she spoke sooner, I so imagine, there would be no second Butta. ALL FEMALE TEMPS< this DORK has next to NOTHING >>>
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