Is it the crappy economy, or is the evaporation of document review work the result of outsourcing? If outsourcing is the answer, don't expect these jobs to come back anytime soon.
"Boston-based Forrester Research estimates the current value of legal work shipped overseas at $80 million; that amount is expected to grow to $4 billion in India alone by 2015."
http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/tusker-group-grows-increased-legal/story.aspx?guid=%7B08BEA988-5D8E-45E7-8356-14DA270ABA93%7D&dist=msr_1
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You don't have to click on it every 2 seconds. But, you do have to come up now with a better argument for why on a general bitch and chat site about the industry I am suppose to stick to just regurgitating the same points over and over again about my problems with doc reivews without discussing the wider economy and legal industry. Since, that's the context of my saying that, your comment could be construed as changing the subject.
10:55 When the politicians talk about outsourcing they do not have our jobs in mind. Of course, if you think they do, that's good enough for you anyway. I mean, whatever you say.
11
I don't believe politicians. I do believe what I see regarding value of company versus liabilities. I saw the government buy AIG in the fall. I see the government is still trying to deal with the toxic assets. TARP won't cover it. One of the discussed tactics on the table is purchase of the assets or the company. If the companies are insolvent, we shall see which they choose.
1104
if by jobs , you mean ONLY doc reviews. I would say you are probbably right.
However, if you are asking a) whether there will be more doc reviews due based on increased regulatory requirements (possibly) and b) because of increased demand for lawyers (then also possibly).
Your focus its clear to me is only on the next doc review. So there is nothing else in your mind that tells you what maybe next or even if that's a concern to figure out how to anticipate what's next. I mean- are any of you trying to figure that out?
11:01 Oddly enough, people come here to discuss doc review. There are thousands of sites that you can go to discuss economics and politics. Like say, if I wanted to discuss astrology, I would do it elsewhere even if I thought that I knew enough about it to predict the future of the banking industry.
Maybe that is why people are trying to change the subject.
oddly enough you have just got through saying repeatedly that doc reviews are about to dry up so silly me, i thought you might be also starting to maybe want to talk about other things.
that's certainly on my mind in a post called the train has left the station. meaning doc reviews are over.
my mistake. If you consider figuring out what your next move is as the equivalent of astrology, but your wallowing in what you describe as a dying industry to be a science, that again explains a lot.
11:19 did they kick you off of all the sites that discuss the things you want to discuss? No problem, you can start your very own blog. Personally, I come to this blog on doc review to try and get info on doc review. Silly me.
Read it and weep...nationalization by another name...
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/
story.php?storyId=95700786
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?
pid=20601087&sid=ayHp841RcKAY&refer=worldwide
11:19
Are you referring to me? I wasn't the one attacking you... just questioning the relevance of your screeds about bank nationalization to doc review and legal temp work.
Don't confuse me for the others on here. Yah, I may be a near-traitor who might actually help found a new LPO, but on the other hand, weirdly enough I see it from the point of view of the exploited US temp attorneys too. Just one more category of job being amorally outsourced.
The problem is that in this cutthroat economy the Republicans have built, it has ended up being everyone for himself. We are all scrounging around like rats trying to make a buck get over on each other.
Believe it or not, if I could wave a magic wand over this vast wasteland of shit, I would put Hugo Chavez in charge of everything and make this country an egalitarian socialist paradise, and jail anyone who objects to that.
But we in this country chose a different road and now everyone is scrambling for their cheese and so I may just say fuck it all and go out and start an LPO. It won't change the reality of what's happening (the death of these jobs for US lawyers)... only accelerate it just a tiny, tiny bit.
But, WTF, since it's probably not a good idea for anyone here to remain in this industry for that long, anyway.
1127
we agree on one thing- anyone wanting to talk about doc reviews after saying its a dying industry is indeed a silly person. Thus, I will leave you to your silliness while discussing what I am discusisng here with others on this blog. In other words, when I bored, I will come here to talk about what i want to talk about. if you are uninterested in it. Talk to someone else. That's what's great about this situation. We can both get what we want. You can talk to others about doc reviews, and those interest in my points can talk to me about those points as well. What you seem to be saying is you don't want to hear about any other options or thinking about what else you should be trying to do next? Again, that's fine. No one is forcing you to read my posts. Just ignore them if they aren't your thing.
11:29 Try googling nationalization and blog, you should be able to find someone interested without too much trouble.
1131
I am not talking about a magic wane. Just paying attention to the next opportunities. The funny thing is you are trying to engage a dying model. Let's say everyone is right- a few years from now either way, this will not be around. So why make a decision that's going to put you in the same place again in a few years? Anyway, to each his own. I am trying to figure out what next for the next few years rather than next few weeks. I think that separates where I am coming from. That's why I care what kind of legislation is coming down the pike.
1129
Thank for that post. I was begining to think no one else read the papers.
11:36 anyone who comes to a blog about doc review and isn't interested in discussions about doc review is a silly person. It says a lot about you and not in a good way.
11:38
My buddy, I'm not saying this work will disappear from the face of the earth.
On the contrary, there will be more of it around than ever. More law firms serving more clients in more lawsuits than ever.
It's just that very little of this DR work will exist in the USA or in other first-world countries like the UK.
If today, 25% of it is being outsourced to India (just a guesstimate), in 5 years from now, that figure will be more like 85-90%.
Doc review and doc reviewers will still be a HUGE growth industry... but in India, not in the US.
Incidentally, I've even worked with a US attorney who was advising the government of BELIZE, of all places, on setting up an international call center (not for legal outsourcing). Belize was chosen because they needed a place which was situated in the same time belt as North America. They also considered the east coast of Nicaragua, where there are English-speaking communities.
11;38 how nice, you've made friends with an outsourcer. That's a real win-win for us. One of you is trying to make money by sending our jobs to sweatshops in India; the other comes to a doc review blog and has no interest in discussing doc review. Hey, the two of you could email each other and maybe have coffee.
1152
My interest is in how to get out of doing doc reviews. So technically I have an interest in doc reviews (getting out of them and not even thinking about them or LPOs or whatever ever again), but not in the sense that you mean it. I think what you mean is I am not interested in being so focused on whining about them rather than figuring out if there is anyone here interested in finding out other avenues for making money.
Oh, I am not anyone's "friend" here. I am just posting for my own reasons. Like I said, to find people wanting to get out of doc reviews and people interested in thinking about where there may be new opportunities that are not so obvious at the moment.
nationalizing banks
http://www.upi.com/Business_News/2009/01/16/US_closer_to_nationalized_banks/UPI-99061232110758/
It really doesn't make a whole lot of sense to come to a blog about doc review and insult people for discussing doc review there. In fact, it's really stupid.
Have no fear, there will be some work soon. It will be tough to get because so many are out of work now.
The major problem is the credit crunch. The outsourcing trend is annoying, but not permanent. Anyone betting long term on Mumbai over the USA, is delusional.
How am I insulting you by saying we should not depend on doc reviews since they are drying up? How is that stupid?
12:16, I was referring to remarks about it being silly to discuss doc review and saying those who do so are whining. If you feel that it is silly to discuss doc review, than it is really stupid of you to come here.
Yes it will take a lot of openings to get all of us back to work, but no one should bet on Mumbai over the U.S.
We attorneys here in Mumbai, Bangalore, Delhi and Chandigharh and all of the great Indian cities will defeat all of you pale, pasty, weak, lazy pseudo "lawyers" in USA. We got your number... By Krishna and Vishnu, we will clean your collective clocks. Remember, our civilisation is 12,000 years old. You cannot put in your entire bodies all thrown together in one mass the knowledge and alacrity for this work that we Indian attorneys have in one of our little pinkies. I do not mean to trash American lawyers or to consign them to nothingness. But remember, in Hindu philosophy, we will all dissipate into nothingness when Shiva the Destroyer causes the earth to rattle and all of civilisation to be knocked down stone by stone until nothing is left and we are all reincarnated into either humans or animals. This is our lot and we must accept it. But for now, you must accept outsourcing as it is good for you. It will enable you to overcome your innate incoherencies and stabilise your souls with the universe in a karmic way so that you are not so damned greedy people.
12:26 you obviously understand English way too well to be one of those non-attorneys they have working for $5 an hour in a sweatshop, so that would make you a pretender and a fool.
1225
Your comment is without context of what I said. You picked up on one word, "whine" and left the rest out.
I made that comment after someone said that the only way we could discuss doc reviews was own their terms.
That was the context of my describing the discussion as whining. Repeatedly discussing the problem without discussing anything else. The question is whether the purpose of this site should be just complaining about doc reviews or finding other ways to make money since we all agree doc reviews suck.
12:26 the home is looking for you.
12:25 you are being dishonest. It was not out of context. If you don't want to discuss doc review, you don't have to. In which case, it is stupid of you to come to a blog about doc review. It is even stupider to come here, expect everyone to stop talking about doc review and insult them when they don't do what you want them to do. That shouldn't be hard to understand for someone as brilliant as you.
Karnakata, the great god of legal outsourcing, will appear floating over your heads and take every one of your lame jobs away, then you will be happy and in Nirvana.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/fc/Sivakempfort.jpg
12:47 are you skipping your meds again?
1241
This is my comment to which you responded.
"oddly enough you have just got through saying repeatedly that doc reviews are about to dry up so silly me, i thought you might be also starting to maybe want to talk about other things.
that's certainly on my mind in a post called the train has left the station. meaning doc reviews are over.
my mistake. If you consider figuring out what your next move is as the equivalent of astrology, but your wallowing in what you describe as a dying industry to be a science, that again explains a lot."
how am I not talkingabout doc reviews there?
Are you referencing my earlier commens about the economy? If so, again, that's bizare to have a conversation about our jobs without understanding what else is going on right now. It's only off topic if you think the world of doc reviews is unrelated to the rest of the economy.
1241
Just in case you persist in not reading what I wrote, here's the key phrase that illustrates what I mean by wallowing:
"If you consider figuring out what your next move is as the equivalent of astrology" or in other words, I want to talk to other doc reviewers who are trying to move on. If finding what's going to be the next thing is not your interest, simply ignore my posts.
12:54 you are persisting in denying what you are doing, namely coming to a blog about doc review and telling everyone to stop talking about doc review, then insulting those who don't do what you want by putting them down as whiners, wallowers and silly. That is pretty stupid behavior on your part. If we didn't want to discuss doc review, we wouldn't be here.
12:54 and 1:00
You both persist in being persistent about persisting that the other one is persisting that neither of you are persisting that well.
If one of you is in doc review to stay but hates it, and the other wants out as soon as possible but defends it, then I *strongly* suggest you just switch places. The guy who loves to hate doc review can become the guy who hates to love it, and vice-versa, until you fuse like Yin and Yang and each merge with the singularity, neither loving it or hating it, but BEING it.
1:06 No thanks.
zzzzzzzzzzzzz...
zzzzzzzzzzzzz...
Hehehe... We put an end to that little conspiracy, right, Rajiv?
Correct, Vijay, we dispatched them with a quickness. Soon they will learn that they can never compete with us. Call the limo and tell the chicks to wear their best saris, we are celebrating tonight... Bollywood style!
12:16
Agreed.
The entire economy has problems and 100,000 people have been laid off this week, big firms are laying off associates and closing, but the outsorcing is destroying the legal industry. Whatever.
Maybe you should be looking for other opportunities to make money until the economy improves. I sure as hell am.
Thanks 219.
I am glad I am not the only one placing doc reviews in context.
We are facing the first potential depression since the 1930s (hence my discussion of bank nationalizatin). We should all be looking for something. If doc reviews show up, great- take that. if not, then we need to realize they may not show up.
I have a lot of friends out of work. Some of them are lawyers, but many were in other industries. It's just crazy.
I have a friend with 4 master's degrees from good schools (University of Michigan MBA, Carnegie Mellon MS, etc.) who has been out of work for over a year.
The economy is set for a historic collapse which will be long-term. We will not see the standard of living we've enjoyed for the past 40 years, maybe ever again in this country. And that includes the numbers and varieties of jobs.
It wasn't just Wall Street, it was Main Street that was propelled by the great American disease of greed. In its drive for profits, Corporate America inflated a consumer credit bubble to monstrous proportions, far beyond the ability of our real economy to pay for it. The subprime crash was just the "detonator" that set off the larger explosion.
Easy credit was based on loose regulations and banking tricks such as mortgage securitizations, CDOs, CDSs, and derivatives. Because these things will all be either highly regulated, banned, or spurned from now on, corporations will not have the arsenal of tricks available to extend easy credit to consumers.
This means most of the ongoing economic wreckage you see happening now -- the mass layoffs, the bankruptcies of stores like Circuit City, etc., the deep housing slump -- will continue and stay around as a long-term trend. It's not going away and the economy isn't going to spring back to life anytime soon in any way near its previous form.
Obama's stimulus package will create some make-work jobs, but those will be relatively short-term and will just barely keep the economy chugging along like a dying train. Overall, the stimulus effect will be pretty anemic. We aren't, and we can't, go back to the status quo ante, because the age of easy credit that we have known for 40-50 years in this country is DEAD.
1104,
If you're out of work at the moment, you could always land a job writing greeting cards. Sorry, I couldn't resist. Sadly, I agree with just about everything you say, but there've got to be some things we can do to ameliorate our plight.
The only thing that I can see is for the government to get into the consumer lending business directly. This will mean nationalization of the major banks. That's right, I am *advocating* it. I am advocating bank nationalization plus a period of extreme protectionism to bring back American jobs, manufacturing + productive capacity.
When it came down to it, the globalists were wrong. True, globalism helps big corporations, but now that the big corporations are failing, what use is globalization anymore if it hurts the American people?
The truth of the matter is that if a country decimates its manufacturing base, that country is headed for impoverishment.
The only way now to reverse that trend is to bring American manufacturing (and outsourced service) jobs, back inside of American borders, by government fiat.
Only manufacturing jobs can provide the incomes the AVERAGE people need (not law school grads, but workaday dads and moms), to be able to revive our consumer economy and our GDP.
Stop sending jobs to China and India, and start taking back the jobs that were sent there!
That is the only way America will revive its economy and bring about new prosperity. Otherwise we are headed to disaster and real, permanent decline.
geez- I wish you people were around last night when I kept getting attacked for bringin this stuff. I was endlessly told that on a site about doc reviews my points were inappropriate. I am not sure how the greater economy is not a factor in our personal situations, but that's what I was told.
The following quote sums up the future for most tier II and or sub top 14 lawschool grads or those who graduate beneath the top 5% of their respective toilet school classes...those who's only real chance of making any decent money in today's shitlawland is doc review:
"Forty billion dollars per year are spent on document review, encompassing an estimated 58 to 90 percent of a corporation's litigation expenses. Having document review conducted offshore can easily save companies 30 to 40 percent of their litigation costs,"....
"This recession is turning the spotlight on legal bills and driving the use of the most efficient resources to get the job done."
For the record, temps on doc review projects are billed out as though they are full time salaried and benefit having associates. But now the jig that is lawfirm billing...is up.
And, with the spotlight being shown on legal billing along with outsourcing...the jig is up for most contract attorneys...
Without the safety net of contract attorney jobs....the jig is up for most law school grads.....even recently laid off biglaw associates.
The jig is up for many firms that rely on being able to bill out tons of hours, at high rates, of american contract attorneys as though they are associates.
A severe thinning of the herd occurs as I write this. First the contract attorneys, then many shit law attorneys and finally many biglaw attorneys.
Law is a dying "profession" for most but a few fortunate preferred, protected and connected "fortunate" ones.
For all but a few preferred, protected & connected firm partners and geniuses, there really is no purpose to remain in law. Cut your losses and leave sooner rather than later before its too late.
Oh, and by the way, the demise of law, for most, was in full swing well before the onset of the "crappy" economy for the non-law world. Law has had its own "crappy economy" for quite some time now.
Quit deluding yourselves legal lemmings....It's not the economy. Don't kid yourselves. It's not the economy. It' not some passing trend. The jobs are not coming back. The outsourcing will not be reversed. Even if it were, if they bring the jobs back onshore, your pay will be severly reduced. The scam is up. Clients now know the deal. Face it, there has been nothing but contempt from law's ivory towers for all law school grads but a few with the proper pedidgree to get biglaw. It is a vicious cast system for most and those who dwell in law's ivory towers are hell bent on enforcing that system. Acknowledge that fact and deal with it rationally.
It's the "profession". Law is a scammy, make work, monkey work, dead end so called "profession" for most and there really is no reason to continue to stick with it.
"Forty billion dollars per year are spent on document review"
WTF are you talking about? You are a raging loon. Add up the gross billing of the AM Law 100 it might not add up to $40 billion.
You have no idea what you are talking about.
1:35
Have you actually read the bios on the Big Firms sights?
There's plenty of non-ivy league types working there.
2:11
LargeLaw generally doesn't hire graduates beneath the upper 10 percent of their law school class, unless the applicant has very exceptional outside qualifications, like a prestigious MBA, MS, Ph.D or MD, or some other impressive credentials or experience.
No, it's not just the economy, stupid. The collapse of law as a decent profession for most graduates started long before the current economic slide, and is independent of it. That fact notwithstanding, the current shitty economy makes the situation that much worse for most of us, and that's not gonna change anytime soon. As Obama said today, the recovery will take years, not months. And during those years, doc review work will steadily continue to slip away. The competitive pressures on firms and clients to save money by outsourcing are even GREATER now, in this crappy economy.
I don't think the train has left the station. Maybe there are a fewer passenger cars, but there is freight. There have been a ton of filings. When it hits, we will all have work despite the Indian outsourcing.
The outsourcing is a disgrace. It still remains only a small portion of the industry so far. Everything is slow now. Our industry will recover first...we are lucky. Stay optimistic.
233
Part of the speed of the recovery unfortunately will depend on Obama and his economic team giving up on the neo-liberal laissez faire policies of the last few decades.
The rest of the world is already moving ahead. The British are nationalizing their banking system like the Swedish did. We will have to follow suit.
What I found disheartening about Obama this morning is that he was talking about TARP - a give away to the bankers who screwed things up- but not about how to really create a reliable system of capital. Namely, the Swedish idea- buy the banks, hire new managers, address the fundamental problems, then recapitalize and spin off back to the private sector. Believe it or not from what i just read that maybe cheaper. I don't know if I buy it yet, but the idea is to reboot the entire system rather than trying to save the present one.
THe same is true of his stimulus. It's not long term enough. It's just short term make work rather than true investment in areas that are going to be competitive in the future.
But, there maybe some job opportunities for lawyers coming out fo this.
Temp law job from 2012:
WANTED, six (6) contract attorneys to work on a project for a major global law firm. Exceptionally fast-paced setting, high quality standards a must. Applicants must be willing and able to work non-stop for 10+ hours/day, 7 days/week (or at least 85 hours per week), under intense production pressures. Fluency in Serbian, the Gheg dialect of Albanian, Tajik, Urdu, or Malaysian is a must. Applicants must be in the top 1% of their graduating class, from a Top 14 law school. Document reviewers will live and work in a crawlspace of the New York City Subway system, supervised by our Indian attorney staff. Bring your own bedding. Document reviewers will be paid $5.76/hour. There are no benefits with this position.
As we come to the end of document review, I propose that we all meet up and have a drink or two.
Hey 3:18, I applied for that job and haven't heard anything back yet. Have you had any luck?
4:05
Yes, I spoke to Sanjay in Bangalore. He said they were swamped with thousands of apps, so if I want the job I'd have to accept a 35% pay cut off the stated rate, and that I should bring my own barbecue spit, because all the food we'd need is "roaming freely through the NYC subway system". Besides, when we're not eating, the supervisors can hook up their electric cattle prods to the BBQ. (Doc reviewers will of course be sent the electric bills for all necessary "work stimulus" administration.)
It's third world, crowded, gutter country on the verge of nuclear war.
This site is created by obvious bigots who write posts which gleefully encourage this type of rhetoric to fester. Blame your own country for being so bloody materialistic and exploitative that it puts the profit of its oligarchs above the interests of its people. And take a look at your own gutter before examining anyone else's.
4:16 - When you and rest of the "Slumdog" Charlatans stop working to undercut our wages and steal our jobs, we'll have little reason to discuss your third world country.
But right now, you and the rest of your horrible, sleazy lying LPO dogs are interfering with our ability to earn a living.
No, we won't stand down Rahul. Your pathetic whining will be ingored, we won't stop until we end this disgraceful outsourcing. We're just getting warmed up around here, get used to it.
I suggest if you want to steal work from New York Lawyers you develop a thicker skin.
Regarding nationalization of the banks... Here, a highly-respected and prophetic economist predicts it, speaking at the Davos Economic Conference, going on now in Switzerland...
"With that bubble now popped, Roubini remains more pessimistic than economists elsewhere. The IMF forecasts global growth of 0.5 percent this year and bank losses from toxic U.S.- originated assets of $2.2 trillion. By contrast, Roubini sees the global economy shrinking this year, and banks writing down at least $3.6 trillion -- compared to the $1.1 trillion disclosed so far.
"While the U.S. government is resisting nationalizing its biggest banks, Roubini says it will have no choice because they are now “effectively insolvent.” And the outcome may be even worse than even he anticipates if governments fail to take aggressive steps to recapitalize banks and revive their economies, he says: “The risk of a near-depression shouldn’t be underestimated.”
"Roubini, who’s now working on a book about the crisis, says he takes no particular pleasure in his role as Dr. Doom or the attention it brings him."
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=a6A9lCHrtAqk
Yet more bitter and pathetic racism. Why is this site being commended on ABA sites when it foments outright bigotry? Brown is clearly the new Black. I suppose now that you elected Obama you feel morally free to target another set of colored savages for demonization.
Regarding the above discussion.
There's an associate at Wilmer Hale NYC who went to Howard law school. Guess what race she is?
And guess how she got that coveted associate position? The color of her skin. (Which you've probably guessed.)
In fact you don't see many white men at BigLaw any more. (Except for the equity partners)
The associate positions are loaded with geeky Asian brainiacs, white women who are mildly attractive (a decision factor), minority/quota people like the girl who went to Howard, and washed up computer science geeks and engineers with 10 degrees before they went to law school after failing at their job or burning out.
If you're brown... stick around! And do doc review!!
Where do the comments discuss the color of your skin, Rahul? Once again you are dishonest, decrying racism where none exists. You are a pig and a liar.
Of course you want this blog shut down, it doesn't condone your disgraceful behavior,
Pig? The last group you effectively characterized as swine were the Jews.
There are a lot more of us, but hey, the technology has gotten better.
Soon, we Indian attorneys will be the masters, and American so-called "attorneys" will be our mere chattel slaves, working in dismal sweatshops whilst we rule over them from high marble thrones, poking them with electric prods as they earn their meagre $3/hour wages, having graduated from inferior so-called "law schools", which are really lame worthless diploma mills spewing phony toilet paper degrees!!! Hahahaha!!
Does any want to meet for drinks? Come to Barrette on Vanderbilt and Dean in Brooklyn - Take the C to Clinton Washington
450
He's not the only one saying this. A lot of international sources are saying the same thing. The only one's in denial about this are idealogues (which is much of the American public having been weaned for 2 generations on laissez faire economic policies). You can see it in Obama's team. They are desperately looking for some private sector solution. But a lot of people are saying there are none. The Swedish approach- or - rebooting the system by nationalizing and then reselling the good assets back is the only way to get the markets unfrozen. That the approach we are using right now will only extend the recession/depression. I am not sure if I agree, but I do know that I am bothered by the lack of thinking outside of the box that we use here in this country. Things will not gt better until we change. But I doubt we will. Thus doc reviews will be the least of people's problems if things keep movign the way they are moving.
It may very well be that it's irreversible. America is in permanent decline, relying on ever more and more borrowed capital from its Yellow masters to fund its "stimulus", which does not even take into account the pending obligations due in Social Security, Medicare, etc. The American "lifestyle" was a historical abberation, completely unsustainable, and to the extent its energy consumption destroyed the environment, immoral.
I wish there were not racists on this site. But, since you are going to take over with this racist crap. I will ignore the racist crap after this comment:
The reason this country is in such a mess is mostly due to the same sorts of prejudices playing out generation after generation including on this blog. It's the sense of white entitlement that blinds you.
The reality is that the person most likely exploiting you is a white guy who looks just like you.
It's like the idiot comment about the make up of BigLaw from earlier. I mean- if you found this site, that means you know how to google law firms, and so do others who are reading this. Thus, why even make such an obvious lie? It's this irrationality that is leading to the decline. We are not a country capable of enough introspection to deal with our fundamental problem: conservatism and reactionary thought processes that refuse to see beyond its own myth making.
I wish there were not racists on this site. But, since you are going to take over with this racist crap. I will ignore the racist crap after this comment:
The reason this country is in such a mess is mostly due to the same sorts of prejudices playing out generation after generation including on this blog. It's the sense of white entitlement that blinds you.
The reality is that the person most likely exploiting you is a white guy who looks just like you.
It's like the idiot comment about the make up of BigLaw from earlier. I mean- if you found this site, that means you know how to google law firms, and so do others who are reading this. Thus, why even make such an obvious lie? It's this irrationality that is leading to the decline. We are not a country capable of enough introspection to deal with our fundamental problem: conservatism and reactionary thought processes that refuse to see beyond its own myth making.
No. No. No. No. White resentment and white entitlement are REAL issues on this blog. Why else would the authors focus so obsessively on India and its less than one percent share of the LPO market as the REASON why they have such doomed destinies?
The perception that it's a noble crusader for "justice", which presumably lead to the ABA "blawg" citation. Maybe so, but there's a seemly underbelly of racism here and that is worthy of critique.
6:21 PM - once again, you show little ability on that to point fingers and cry racism.
You can start by addressing the substance of the arguments.
1) Why do feel it ethical to steal work from Americans, for which you are not licensed and trained. Your native language is not even English!
2) Why is your industry full of such lying, sleazy used car salesman types?
3) Why are you willing to do such work at such "gutter" prices?
Please answer all of the above and leave you pathetic wailing for another forum.
621 I agree with you.
8:11 -
You are a textbook model of White Resentment. Your premises are so laughable that I wonder whether you even have a law degree.
The decision to outsource legal work is made mainly by in house corporate counsel at America's corporations (white guys), at the behest of senior management and their boards (white guys--95% of Fortune 500 CEOs are white) and to a far lesser extent by equity partners at law firms, when they have a large matter and they are constrained either by time or by budget (again, white guys).
They take advantage of a regulatory and legal structure informed by free market principles that allows for this (again, a global structure created by white guys after the Second World War).
You are in the mess you are in because the ABA licenses so large a number of law schools, that supply far outweighs demand (a structure created, you guessed it, by white guys).
At yet you fume over Indians. In your view, white guys have been tricked by conniving Indians into giving up their work. How INSANE can you possibly be? Your choice of terms to describe Indians --lying, sleazy, pigs, slumdogs--is not different from the stereotypes of Jews that developed in Medeival Christendom.
Indians live in your neighborhood too. Most are American citizens. So if some punk decides to take a couple down for "taking their jobs away", the atmosphere of hate bred by you and your ilk in these and other forums will be in large part to blame. This is eminently possible in this country - we've had Japanese Americans interred in concentration camps and a series of "Yellow Scares" that led to the ethnic cleansing of Chinese on the West Coast.
And everyone (supposedly educated people) sit back and think this is a joke. You should all be ashamed of yourselves
More people calling for the US to pursue the Swedish plan of nationalizing banks, and then spliting them up so that they are not "too big to fail" This time the World bank chiming in through surrogates:
http://www.cnbc.com/id/28928650
I guess I am not a fool after all.
Looks like the world is changing, and there may be opportunities for lawyers , if not now, then in the next few years. Namely, if they chop up banks, that's a a lot of lawyers who will need to be hired for each bank and staff attorneys to deal with increased regulation. But, we shall see.
905
When someone is so clearly racist, my advice is to ignore them. It's so obvious everything you mention is true for anyone who has actually step foot in corporate America that it's kind of like "what the hell reality is this person living in who says big law is now people of color?" Does that even sound credible? No. So, let's not give this person any more attention than he or she deserves. Racist rarely, if ever, admit to their racism. Even KKK members did not think they were racist in the Jim Crow South. I doubt you are going to convince some bigot that his hand me down racism is not racism.
Like I said, in the prior post, meanwhile the world is reshaping itself regardless of what a few doc reviewers think. Regardless of what any of think.
As Senator Bernie Sanders said, "If a company is too big to fail, it is too big to exist."
Down with the ReThugliKKKunts!!!
"You are a textbook model of White Resentment."
Once again, you are the one inserting race into the discussion. You are nothing but an embarassing bootblack and shameless water carrier.
If you had read any of the prior posts, we were referencing the LPO salesmen as lying, sleazy, pigs. In other words, you.
You are now draping yourself in the horrors of the holocaust. Will you stop at nothing, you shameless pig?
Please tell us, for which LPO firm you do you work? Does your salary include trolling message boards and screaming "racism" every time an American attorney, whose job you have stolen, protests the disgraceful outsourcing trend?
Is it worth it for you to be so intellectually dishonest and incapable of constructing a logical argument?
You've already compared yourself to the Jews under the Nazi regime. What's your next despicable trick? You are the ones stealing our jobs. We are the ones who have been subjugated and bereft of property. We are the aggrieved party.
You are the perpetrator!
Do you sleep well at night knowing that you are actively stealing jobs from Americans that have undertaken 7 years of schooling to earn? How does it feel?
I hope they pay you in dollars and not Rupees, you sniveling coward.
My advice is to once again ignore 916. Yes. he's a racist. No you aren't going to change that by arguing with the bigotry. Not here.
My advice is to ignore 10:25 PM. You are obviously the Indian LPO troll. Of course you have no response, once again, but to scream "racism".
You are despicable.
Further discussion about nationalization (and the current drive to restructure economies but here and abroad ) while we worry about doc reviews as if they will be unaffected:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/scott-malcomson/nationalism-is-back-adieu_b_162778.html
zzzzzzzz...
116
Maybe you need to go to sleep if you are so sleepy. Certainly you dont have doc reviews to explain why you are around to post zzzz at 116 in the morning.
Now this...
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/02/01/bailed-out-banks-sought-f_n_162877.html
Here's what happends when you outsource your work to India, FOFL!
http://contractattorneys.wordpress.com/2009/01/31/
mamtha-and-me-my-foray-into-indian-outsourcing/
FL, MD, UT banks shut and SEIZED in deepening financial crisis...
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aIfyJ5j8OHTM&refer=worldwide
My prediction is that Round Whatever, Part Whatever of the Obama Bank Stimulus Plan (not to be confused with the Infrastructure Stimulus, the Mortgage Stimulus, or the General Financial Stimulus, or any of the separate bailouts) will focus on the Big Banks, and ignore the many smaller and regional banks around the country that are in dubious positions and next to failure. By the time they realize that they should have focused on the smaller banks too, many of these banks will be gone.
Also, this will lead to a run on banks by depositors and the FDIC will be overwhelmed.
How do you demand your bank deposits anyway, and how do you get them back from the FDIC once a bank fails? Do you have to fill out a pile of paperwork? How long until you get your money back?
These are questions noone even thought we'd ever have to answer until now...
"Doc review is picking up but not in the onshore centers. In India. A large percentage of the subprime/credit crisis work and bankruptcy work we expected in DC and NYC is already in India."
(The Posse List)
So let me get this straight - we have a taxpayer bailout and these bastards are doing the reviews with non-taxpaying, unlicensed, non-native English speakers?
We should have let these companies fail. We need to find out how much all the companies that received TARP money are now outsourcing this work.
I hope they all lose their jobs and are put in jail.
This is the main reason why I became a solo practitioner (among other ventures). You just can't rely on anyone else for your own financial well-being. Outsourcing should be banned. The "attorney" document reviewers in India do not have the same requirements (bar exam, license, CLE) that we do here. It's fine for them to get paid $30K a year because that's like millionaire status over there and that's why so many law firms are using them instead of their own associates or recruited document reviewers.
Its time to declare war on the pro-outsourcing people: this includes the LPOs, the law firms, and the corporations.
Write to your Senators and Congressmen about this issue.
Pursue criminal complaints against these people. The unauthorized practice of law/aiding in UPL is a crime in most States.
Write letters to the U.S. Attorney in your district.
We need to find out who exactly is outsourcing to India, names of the corporations and names of the law firms and the lawyers involved.
File bar complaints against the lawyers involved and State AGs about the companies.
Its time to get serious about this criminal action.
We as lawyers have an ethical duty to report the misconduct of other lawyers.
Yes, we should also put together a protest outside of the Legal Tech Show. Many LPO firms have the nerve to be exhibiting there.
If we don't do something, they will just slide by, scott free and poeple will accept this horror as legitimate.
I am Rajneesh. I am Indian Attorney. I am fluterate in English language. I am smart. By Krishna and Vishnu, we will eat your jobs and feed them to the gods. You will be reincarnated as pigs.
Mr. Rajneesh,
Are you coverered my malpractice insurance?
"Yes, yes, yes" (while bobbing head)
"All you have do is call my cousin, Harem, in India and he we will send you the millions of dollars that you're heart desires. We are very ethical people here and never ever lie. Plese send me your money for doucment review."
"FUCK THE LOT OF YOU! FUCK YOU ALL!"
"Aw, fuck you! Fuck the lot of you! Fuck you all!"
The kicker is that the folks who voted for Obama at the Big Pharma and Law Firms are now going to reap the destruction of those industries.
Pfizer taking over Wyeth due to impending demand destruction for pharmaceuticals (an Obama platform). Thousands (more) jobs will evaporate.
Doc review jobs will be non-existent in a decade.
Congrats, Obama-ites! Hope you had fun in the East Vilage celebration, cause you all sure did it this time!
Maybe you can get a job as a ditchdigger in Saint Obama's "stimulus" package.
Umm....this has been going on for some time now. So, you cannot hold PRESIDENT Obama responsible. Place the blame on all those shady business owners - both conservatives and liberals - that want cheaper labor.
Obama is just another shady politician. He was in that shady Congress too. He's also taken a lot of contributions from shady people, shady biglaw and shady corporations. They are all resposible. They all should be tossed out of their positions.
All it will take is a major sanction on a atty who went "cheap" to do doc review in India. When this poor schmuck loses his license it will be game over for India outsourcing.
Yeah, its great to send doc review work to India....where Beverly Hills is identified as a person, your Social Security number and other private info is being reviewed by a person with no chance whatsoever of being charged with a crime if they take it and sell it on the black market. AWESOME!!!!!
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