"David Perla stated that American lawyers typically hired to perform document review on major litigation have minimal skills and zero motivation. In contrast, Pangea3 can attract the best and the brightest young lawyers in India, fluent in English and trained in English common law. Perla said clients have held "bake-offs" in which the Pangea3's Indian lawyers were asked to perform the same tasks as U.S. contract lawyers. He said the Indians soundly trounced the Americans."
Meanwhile, rates are dropping like a rock in NYC, as we have to compete with unlicensed foreigners.
http://newyork.craigslist.org/mnh/lgl/973909667.html
71 comments:
From Legallyours blog,
"Thursday, December 18, 2008
LPOs in India march ahead
Richard Susskind, author of “The End of Lawyers?”, in his article “Turning to India at break-neck speed” talks about the research conducted by RSG Consulting and the reasons behind increasing business diverted to LPOs.
The report makes the following points:
1. 10 of England’s top 30 law firms have outsourced back office functions or legal work to India.
2. Although the legal market is evolving at break-neck speed there is a dearth of experience and attrition rates are high.
3. Purchasing power of general counsel in India has increased.
4. Shift in the attitude of top English firms with respect to outsourcing – resistance weakening considerably.
5. Huge difference in salaries meted out to Indian legal graduates by Indian LPO companies and to qualified associates by Wall Street firms.
6. Not only law firms but also the clients that they used to serve are outsourcing legal work.
Richard in the write-up attributes the change in attitude to the clients who are pressurizing in-house legal departments and law firms to cut costs and internal head counts. This has led to devising ways of reducing expenditure on back office and administration such as IT, finance and document production. Outsourcing, thus, becomes the most likeable option for reducing expenses on the infrastructure. Even when outsourcing legal work such as legal research, document review in litigation or due diligence for corporate work, LPO companies have proved to be a viable option. These companies rely on well-developed standards and systems and have reduced labor costs in delivering routine and repetitive legal work – resulting in cheaper legal services.
The author perceives the scene of legal support services to be positive for Indian LPO markets and a continuous increase in their revenues."
http://legallyours.blogspot.com/
Peak is currently advertising a job with the fantastic rate of $30 an hour straight time.
Peak's pay rates are always lower than everywhere else (with the exception of E.P. Slime), but you can guarantee they're taking advantage of the current economic climate by shaving $5 an hour off the usual $35, which was already too low.
I propose calling Peak "REEK" from now on, because THEY STINK!
4:06- How can you be sure the crappy rate is at the behest of the agency and not the firm/client? Is it because it's more fun to play 'blame the recruiter'?
This should be a wake up call to all the permatemps. You're replaceable. Get your act together and land a job or go solo.
You won't be making the same dough as a big law associate but you will be gaining experience.
shut up.
Peak Legal is incompetent. Beware Kathy Fournaris, who (wrongly) claimed I had horrible references. Only after I threatened legal action did she retract and admit that she had gotten my references confused with another's.
Also, Peak Legal lies about jobs. They don't have any.
Of course this prick is going to claim his workers are better and cheaper. It is simple marketing. In reality, I bet the Indian women fuck better and are cheaper to maintain than his wife.
Does anyone have Mr. Perla's work e-mail ? I'd like to send him a personal greeting for the New Year.
Jobs have been getting sent overseas since the so-called "Regan-revolution" we lost the Steel industry, we no longer have a single T.V. made in the U.S. and most clothes are made in other countries. For a number of years the jobs that were sent overseas were blue collar jobs, and white collar people would comfort themselves with platitudes about how the fact that they were "educated" would protect them from these kinds of issues, as "anyone" could do a blue collar job, but their job "required" education. That is no longer true, and white collar jobs are getting sent overseas in droves now too. For years it was argued that sending jobs overseas was just competition and the lazy union people were the real problem and that people are either just stupid or lazy, or both to get a "better job". White collar people bought that argument and let it happen. Now the shoe is on the other foot. It reminds me of a poem.
When they came for the communists,
I remained silent;
I was not a communist.
When they locked up the social democrats,
I remained silent;
I was not a social democrat.
When they came for the trade unionists,
I did not speak out;
I was not a trade unionist.
When they came for the Jews,
I remained silent;
I was not a Jew.
When they came for me,
there was no one left to speak out.
anon, at 8:45..how intelligent- comparing this to the holocaust. What is wrong with you?
At this time of year the Holocaust industry always forces us to remember the Holocaust when they trounce out their tediously repetitious Holocaust-themed movies. Give it a rest, guys.
tom, may I suggest a post on the ramifications of student loan default? I'm guessing deferments are running out, and the shit is about to hit the fan for many. Anyone succesful at renegotiating payments, deadlines etc. instead of defaulting?
Well-wishers may reach Mr. Perla at david@pangea3.com . Enjoy and happy Holidays.
5:45, if it isn't Peak (REEK) that sets the low rates, then why are REEK's pay rates always lower than every other agency, except E.P. Slime?
I don't think it is a comparison to the holocaust, I think the point that poster was trying to make is that outsourcing has been going on for a long time and no one said anything until it became their job that got outsourced, and by then it was pretty much too late.
a) Peak is lower than market.
b) 1059: Student loan determents take years to run out, not months.
c) 12:25: You are correct about 845's analogy. It's sad that you had to explain it. That says two things.
First, our educational system sucks.
Second, Americans are willfully ignorant about economic issues.
Re Outsourcing
It's been clear for over a decade that outsourcing affects more than just blue collar jobs.
In a globalized economy there are no protected jobs.
I listened the other day to some guy tauting the new green economy as the private sector way of addressing this issue. I didn't listen for long because I thought this is just another gimmick for systemic problems with globalization.
If this makes anyone feel better, it's not you. On average, the reality is that many of you in a prior era would have been fully employed. but in our globalized ones. Its hard for average rather than exceptional or well connected workers to compete. In this type of economy everyone has to be above average to compete.
This is a joke when you think about since no matter how great everyone is. Someone will be at the bottom. Someone at the top. That's just the nature of limited resources.
everyone should flag those ads that try to low ball us. fight fire with fire!
With all of the market reasons, do you really think he had to point out how much more effecient Indian lawyers are than lazy, spoiled Americans? No, I didn't think so either.
Unfortunately, it is true, and true on its face value. Also not just a lawyer thing--I'm sure Indian teachers are more effective than American teachers, Indian doctors more effective (know anyone who had a heart attack in America? Did you meet the doctor?). Indian plumbers are also more effective. Do you think plubmers in India make as much money as they do here, which everyone complained about on this blog? Of course not, there are plenty of people smart enough to be plumbers in India, so they don't make as much money as in America.
7:39: Do the women fuck better. I don't know, but I hope to one day!
The problem is that "free" trade really isn't free. This is not only true in the law, but across the spectrum.
To do this work in India, do the Indians have to attend pricey ABA accredited law schools? Do they have to pass state licensing exams, pass intrusive character background checks, and pay expensive annual bar dues?
To top it all off, India bars American lawyers for competing for their clients. How exactly is this "free" trade?
Sure, Indians are better than Americans at everything. That's why their country is an overcrowded cesspool and they can't wait to flee their stinking, loser country and move here.
They are a third world dump on the cusp of nuclear war with Pakistan. But oh yeah, so much smarter than us.
Indians are of average intelligence at best, but are willing to work for 1/4 of our wages. So greedy corporations sell us out. Indians can barely speak English and aren't trained in Western Thought and critical thinking, nevermind the American Legal System.
Have ever spoken to one of these idiots in a call center? You've got be kidding me.
They work cheap and have been stealing our jobs for years. It's time to fight back.
Well-wishers may reach Mr. Perla at david@pangea3.com . Enjoy and happy Holidays.
Why give Mr. Perla a hard time for trying to help everyone here? If he is successful in moving all doc review to India, the "Slaves of New York" will finally be freed from their chains.
257
A well paid Indian lawyer earns$7,000 a year. The barrier to entry is just one aspect. They are paid a rate that would put us below the poverty rate were we similarly situated in the U.S.
http://abajournal.com/news/rules_unclear_re_supervising_indian_lawyers/
This is why all the stupid posts about "quality of workers" is a joke. There is no price point in the U.S. by which an American lawyer (or nearly all Americans) can compete with 7,000/year.
This situation is an aspect of what's called "free market fundamenalism."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Market_fundamentalism
There are other examples (healthcare, finance, education, etc).
The labor "competition" under global free market fundamentalism is called the "race to the bottom." Typically, its define as regulation, but it can also include wage and quality of life deflation.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_to_the_bottom
To "compete," all Americans, not just temp attorneys, are expected to accept an increasely lower quality of life.
I do not mean to depress people. Just a reality check to give a full picture of what you are seeing. Other aspects of the economy are already facing these issues of globalization.
I am not 100 percent against some fair trade. But, we need to understand the destruction free trade causes
I am the person who wrote the 3:48 post post.
I want to make it clear that I am not bashing, unlike others here, Indian workers.
Like others, Indians simply want to earn a living. They can not help the quality of life of their country.
I am pointing out the problem with the situation in terms of American economic interests. The Indian bashing is pointless. It's not their fault that we have fellow Americans willing to screw us.
In fact, if the wages were to rise in India, the same model of free market fundamentalism predicts the same employers would move to the next target nation to repeat the process of deflation of quality of life.
To compete, everyone at the bottom is expected to accept a lower quality of life. Last time I checked, law schools weren't reducing their tuitions, nor were partner billing rates being reduced. The middle class should not accept free trade if they will be the ones accepting most of the risks and none of the benefits.
401
That's the point. It's a shifting the risks of globalization solely on the shoulders of the middle class. I laugh at people about socialism.
I am not for or against socialism, but the idea that shifting wealth from the middle class to the wealthy and large private or semi-private entities isn't its own socialism is a joke.
At least under socialism, theorectically, if not always in reality, we obtain some benefit. With free market fundamentalism-what's the benefit?
Most whine, "The other chickens have a little more food than me" while ignoring the wolves waiting silently in the dark to eat all of them.
This is BS. When I was at Barrasshole, we had to check indian doc reviewers work and it was miserable. Just awful. Maybe over the last three years it's improved, I dunno, I've moved on. But back then, it was retardedly awful.
How can it be any good, they don't even speak proper English.
No, they speak proper English, and that's the problem: they don't know colloquial English, so half the time they miss what the documents are really saying.
No, their first language is Hindi or another tongue and English is a distant second. They think they are fluent, but not even 40% competence in most.
a) The languge barrier issue is one of several reasons why this is a ticking time bomb for clients.
b) I would add the other issue is understanding American legal jurisprudence. Our jobs are bottom of the pit because we have been trained in American juris. We come with this knowlege regardless of being on a project. What happens when you are getting trained in a fly by night operation?
@11:46. So firms/clients pay less, but the quality they receive is less? What's wrong with that? Why doesn't the market correct the problem if outsourcing does not do the job?
I agree, it's a time bomb.
Those idiots over at Pangea3 botched a bunch of low end patent work a while back. They didn't have the proper filing licenses to comply with EAR. These people are the #1 outsourcing group in India.
It’s not going to be long until they or some fly by night operation screws up some doc. review and all hell breaks loose.
Regardless, this should be a lesson to some of the permatemps. You are easily replaceable and the big firms and staffing agencies do not care about you. Either make the firm give you a full time job --like S&C does – in my experience one of the best places to work, jump to a project where the firms give temps opportunities for full time employment, or get a lower paying full time job.
I mean, honestly, were you really planning on reviewing documents for the next 10-20 years?
8:27
Your assumption is that "laissez faire markets are the best means of promoting efficiency."
We know this is untrue. Indian document reviews are not an efficient allocation of resources due to the specific nature of the legal system (ie, discovery rules, ethics, language, etc).
The solution is regulation by the Courts and legal governing bodies rather than waiting for damage from the market to impact the legal system.
That's the lesson of the financial market collapse. Market's are not God. Human behavior determines what happens regardless of risk.
Waiting to correct unnecessary damage can cost time and money.
RE: Out of Doc Rev
I agree. Find an exit strategy. Regardless of the realities of the market, this is not a career or a long term strategy to move ahead.
S & C is one of the best places to work? Are you kidding?
Bottom line: doc review is much easier work for people from third world countries. Not because they're inherently better at it, but because they're used to being treated like garbage by rich white elites. They're used to being packed on top of each other in sweatshop-like conditions. It doesn't bother them as much as it bothers those of us from the US. They come from a culture which sustained generations of abuse, thus they're better equipped to survive and thrive under the adverse conditions. They're heartier.
This isn't meant as a put-down of people from third world countries. It's a fact. Look around the doc reviews here at the number of Jamaicans, Haitians, and Nigerians on these projects. The numbers have increased over the last few years. They're able to stand the hardship of sitting in an uncomfortable room in close quarters with each other for 10-13 hours a day, with no internet access and slavemaster-type supervisors, and keep their mouths shut without complaints. It seems to be a cultural thing because of generations and generations of abuse. And it also seems the agencies and firms know this and hire as many as they can, knowing they're getting docile sheep who will accept the message that temp attorneys should "be happy to be working."
Those of us from the US, no matter the race or cultural background, aren't as equipped to deal with the conditions. We were sold a bill of goods where we were taught - prior to entering the legal workforce - that we're worth something. We were taught to dream big, that we could 'be someone'. Then we find ourselves essentially being treated like migrant farm workers, working in dingy, filthy 'workspaces' and being packed in like KFC chickens with our beaks filed off. It's shocking to us because we were taught to expect better treatment. And it's also shocking to realize that we're trapped and going nowhere, because the rich, white elites want it that way. Until, of course, they can actually offshore ALL of our horrible jobs to the third world, where the complaints will be non-existent, the labor much cheaper, and the profit margins much higher.
And those are the facts, people.
Your argument is racist and flawed.
3:31
The English have a different system that uses solicitors and barristers. They also have different ethical standards than American attorneys. So, I wouldn't use what's happening in England to form a conclusion about what will happen in the US.
8:27
Agreed. The same factors that would apply to outsourcing call centers or web hosting platforms, do not apply to legal work. There are a variety of export rules that must be complied with , and outsourcing first line review is either crossing or standing on the line of aiding and abetting the unauthorized practice of law. Then there’s the issue of sanctions for mistakes in e-discovery. When using licensed attorneys, the firms have an out. However, when they’re unlicensed it’s a different story. No one takes the idea of one or two attorneys “sanitizing” 20 or 30 non-attorney’s work seriously. The LPO outsourcing model simply isn’t viable. If it were, someone would have done something similar in NYC using paralegals instead of attorneys.
The outsourcing of first line doc. review is new, and it takes time for complaints to hit the courts and governing bodies. I would be surprised to find out that it’s been going on in any actual discovery for more than 6 months. I give it another six months before an example is made and it’s put to a stop. Besides, the temp market will probably improve in January/February. I think the majority of it has to do with the economy; there have been quite a few layoffs and cutbacks at firms. Temps in any industry get hit hard in a recession.
Regardless, don’t temp as a career. It’s not sustainable. You’ll have to get out sooner or later, and the longer you wait the harder it’s going to get.
1226
I agree. I am pushing myself hard to get out of this despite both the economy and outsourcing being temporary obstacles.
Aside from being racist 10:04 is also an idiot. Are you arguing that we should accept a living standard below $7,000 / year? That's the price point we would have to match on average to compete with the outsourcing to India. God, but you are stupid. How did you get through law school with your level of reasoning skills?
11:42 and 1:42 - YOU are the idiots.
11:42 - 10:04 made the point that he/she WAS NOT trying to crap on Third World lawyers - they made that very clear. 10:04 was comparing attorneys from Third World countires to their US counterparts, without separating US lawyers by race or culture. People from the Third World happen to be non-white 99% of the time.
Why is it that even when race is an ancillary factor, morons like 11:42 have to focus on the racial issue and not see the point the person is making?
And 1:42: 10:04 wasn't proposing you should accept $7,000 a year. 10:04 was stating the facts as he/she sees them. You're free to disagree with them, but they're pretty evident: Temp agencies and firms in the US want docile sheep to work these projects. People from the Third World come from cultures which were historically treated like shit by the rich colonialist white people and thus have a better skill set to deal with the poor treatment of the agencies and firms. YOU are the idiot, 1:42, not 10:04. How did YOU make it thrugh law school being such a non-analytical reactionary?
If their work is so terrible, how come there have not been any sanctions yet? Last time I checked, the only times there have been sanctions is from doc review done in this country.
Just wait, there will be plenty of sanctions and damages related to the schlock work being performed by these so called attorneys in India.
And there are barred American attorneys on the hook for these jokers.
139
You do not recognize the difference between fact based assertion and opinion based on speculation.
Legal outsourcing agencies sell their services and products based on market pricing. That's a fact. If they did not, they would go out of business competing against other agencies who did.
Your opinion about docile workers is not a factual assertion. Its just your theory to explain things. it's a racist one at that. But still just opinion based on "how agencies think."
As a practical matter, your point is moot. American workers could be perfectly docile, but given the differnce in income, we could not compete economically due to the spread by 7k and what Americans earn.
309
There is a lag time between market action and the legal response to it.
You could have asked the same questions about the subprime market. People knew for years that the subprime market was headed for a meltdown. They knew the same about exotic derivatives.
As soon as some client loses enough money due to a screw up by Indian document reviews and is looking for someone to blame, you can be sure law suits will fly.
That's not even considering when the courts may step into this.
6:38, IT IS NOT A RACIST ASSERTION.
CAN'T YOU READ? OR DO I HAVE TO KEEP TYPING IN CAPS SO YOU CAN SEE THE POINT?
Race is ANCILLARY TO THE POINT.
THE POINT:
Attorneys from Third World countries who come to the U.S. are more docile than their U.S. counterparts when they come here to work because they COME FROM AN ENVIRONMENT OF POVERTY, whereas people from the U.S. DO NOT. (Some in the U.S. have it bad, but 'poor' in the U.S. is probably relatively 'rich' in a Third World country.)
DO YOU UNDERSTAND THIS POINT? THEY ARE THANKFUL TO HAVE JOBS, EVEN IF THESE JOBS ARE HAVE NO MEANING AND NO PERSONAL ENRICHMENT TAKES PLACE.
Those of us from the U.S. were taught to 'dream big'. It's the reason many of us went to law school in the first place. The shock of being trapped in a miserable temp attorney existence is SHOCKING TO US because we were taught that we were worth more AND DESERVED MORE!
RACE is ANCILLARY to the argument. ANCILLARY means SECONDARY, NON-ESSENTIAL.
The point being posed HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE RACE OF THE THIRD WORLD ATTORNEYS, but EVERYTHING TO DO WITH THE FACT THAT THEY'RE FROM THE THIRD WORLD!!
DO YOU COMPREHEND?
you are just a moron. Do you really think Jamaicans and Nigerians are quiet and complacent? Not only are you racist, you have it completely wrong.
You're an idiot.
Yes, I forgot. They sit around and talk (sometimes scream) on their cellphones all day and don't get fired, while the Americans (of all races) do all the work and get more work piled on top of it.
Sorry for the confusion.
Thats funny, all of the people who I work with who are on their phones all day and do nothing are crybaby white americans who think they are too good for everything.
Yeah, 1:54, emphasis on the word "Americans." I'm sick of having our payscale deflated by Nigerians who only have four years of higher education, minimal loans to repay, and not even the pretense of a work ethic.
1:54, time for some good, old-fashioned xenophobia:
GET OUT OF MY COUNTRY AND GO BACK TO YOUR OWN!! WE DON'T WANT OR NEED YOU HERE!
No more foreign trained lawyers! JDs 0nly please!
Bow down to your brown masters!
As long as they all look like Tanuja I'm OK with that! LOL.
Fuck you, David Perla.
Fuck you very much.
Let's dispense with the PC (thought-free) bullshit. Analyzing racial differences is not an inherently racist exercise. There are differences among the races, and you can't will them away simply by insisting they don't, contrary to the evidence, exist. The causality of differences may be unclear, but their existence is not.
What a bunch of fucking loser racists some of you are. No wonder nobody wants your dumb asses within a mile of anything legally substantive. All the privileges and advantages of living in this great country and you pampered princesses have nothing better to do than whine and rage against people in the third world. You are an embarassment to the legal profession (WHICH WAS NOT CREATED TO MAKE YOU RICH, BTW!!!!)and to the human race.
Anyone who has consistently and REPEATEDLY been denied employment (as I have) because of AFFIRMATIVE ACTION and "DIVERSITY" has every right to, at the very least, complain and bitch.
And when that doesn't work (and it WON'T), then they will be forced to TAKE IT TO THE NEXT LEVEL!!
what the heck is that supposed to mean you lunatic? I doubt affirmative action kept you out of a job.
153,
Who cares about your doubts? Discrimination is wrong whether it hurts blacks or whites. Obviously giving benefits to some schvartse that he doesn't deserve, hurts the more qualified white. Just be honest with yourself.
Usually people like you can not point to any specific incidence of a person getting a job "just because" they are black...especially attached to you not getting one because you are white. It is much easier to create a fantasty in an attempt cover up your own mediocrity. You cannot tell a person's accomplishments, intelligence or job worthiness based on the color of their skin. So go on and waster you time whining, moaning, and petting your own ego. At least you have a friend.
233 writes, :You cannot tell a person's accomplishments, intelligence or job worthiness based on the color of their skin.
Exactly, so end affirmative action!
Anonymous said...
233 writes, :You cannot tell a person's accomplishments, intelligence or job worthiness based on the color of their skin.
Exactly, so end affirmative action!
5:18 PM
*********************
Still wouldn't get you a job, sunshine...
Question: if they can outsource US contract attorney work to India, can American lawyers go there and work for a few months? Maybe better yet, do they hire American contract attorneys in cities like London, Hong Kong, Sydney, etc.?
Assuming arguendo, in this "globalized" world, that English-speaking law school graduates are geographically-fungible, and it doesn't matter what country we live in, studied in, or have citizenship in, then theoretically, the travel possibilities are endless, in what might otherwise be a mind-numbingly tedious job.
There should be a service to "match" CAs worldwide with jobs in foreign cities, and arrange for them to trade work locations and stay in each others' houses/apartments!
a friend of mine, an IP litigator partner at a big firm, in discussing this topic, was foaming at the mouth about how utterly incompetent and atrocious the indian outsource legal work was. granted, i think this had to do with drafting patent applications (which he doesn't do and the firm doesn't do, so it's not lost work for him), not scut document review work
This beast is a lying dirtbag.
Sure--no "white elites" have ever had to kiss up to a boss. So does third-world automatically mean "docile," just as white is always synynomous with lazy and ungrateful? Broad strokes, people.
Also, it isn't "bashing" to point out QC issues with Indian labor--anyone who has dealt with a call center in Bangalore should know Sure--no "white elites" have ever had to kiss up to a boss. So does third-world automatically mean "docile," just as white is always synynomous with lazy and ungrateful? Broad strokes, people.
Also, it isn't "bashing" to point out QC issues with Indian labor--anyone who has dealt with a call center in Bangalore probably knows this. Aside from having poor English skills, and the bizzare voice training they seem to undergo, these hourly slaves can't seem to do anything that isn't in the training manual, otherwise they need a supervisor. I have actually had them hang up on me when something was too much to handle. We may well regret outsourcing legal work to India, and hopefully the market(or a malpractice suit)will correct the situation.
Like the subprime mess, we all should have seen this comming. Someone will be disbarred just for trying to save a few bucks--and at that point the race to the bottom will officially hit the ground. Maybe the world isn't so flat after all, Mr. Friedman.
so much has been written here. I don't know if i can address them cogently. Before I begin, let me state the things that seem to be important indicators in identifying people in this forum - skin color (brown - i am indian) and live in India. I am also a woman. I studied in the US and learnt a lot. I returned to India to follow my heart. However those labels dont mean anything.
First - I think it's not nice to engage in ad hominem attacks on anyone .
Second - Jobs are hard to come by whether you are educated or not, living in India or in Europe or in USA. Whether you are urban or rural or black or brown or white , I believe. Economic downturn is one reason. The economy is not doing so good because - this is my opinion - economic production is not looking at real needs and instead targeting luxury or even creating life needs that are not critical. Such economic drivers are not sustainable.
Third - I feel that being angry at life's difficulties won't solve any problems. Sometimes it rains and sometimes its a drought. It's better to adapt and be creative and yes be hopeful. You can always find opportunities where none seems to be there. You will be grateful when life ends that you never gave up in your downtime. I am just speaking from personal experience. I have a friend who used to worry incessantly about lack of money. Once she became rich many years later, she told me one day that she wished she had enjoyed life as it is. I am not rich and it really does not matter in life. Money only pays for basic things and if you make money the center of life, you will lose other things life gives you or fail to appreciate them. Money woes will always come and go. .
I think I have said a lot. But please take it in a good spirit. That every cloud does have a silver lining. Nobody has a easy time in this world - whoever they are. So dont let yourself down and become bitter . I do find that some of you write in some kind of dark jest?
I don't know. If I misunderstood your comments or hurt your sentiments here with my words, I do apologize for that. That is not my intention. I wish all of you temp people a wonderful and fulfilling career. I found my own career very late. But the detours have a purpose in life. So keep the faith!
Wow, there's a whole lot of bitching going on. Evidently, there are many varied ways to say essentially "it's not fair, our tuition was more, our dues are higher, we have more expenses, etc." While it is certainly true that Indian lawyers will have a major cost advantage, what seems to be lost is that your real problem is that you are competing for work in which the cost is much more important to the consumer than the identity of the person performing the work.
Globalization isn't your problem --if it wasn't outsourcing to India, then it would be outsourcing to rural or other low cost US locations. Sure it would be more costly than India, but do the majority of posters really care if work is lost to someone earning $7k per year versus $25k -- either way the work is lost.
The bottom-line is that, as long as you are performing tasks that are seen by the consumer as not requiring any real talent or particular experience, there will always be someone willing to do those taks cheaper than you. I know it is not easy to do, but you need to find a way to show the consumer of your services (your employer or, if you hang a shingle, your clients) that you are worth more and not just bitch that he/she/it ought to pay more.
David Perla!! Finally, someone says something. I've yet to meet anyone so amazingly unaware of their reputation. To logically approach a discussion without any semblance of knowledge is something David does with arrogance. It's unreal. Those that cling to diplomas as a proxy for either decency or intelligence like David does, are living in silent misery. The only joy I get after my brief interview with him, is, humiliating him every time I run into him. He actually believes I have a high regard for him, so while I'm looking right at him, everyone around us knows I think he's pathetic-but he doesn't know???? How can you not know...poor thing
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