We have a source in India who is witnessing firsthand the development of the Indian LPO document review industry. In the coming weeks, stay tuned for possible Tom the Temp reports from the Indian subcontinent.
Also, someone sent me an interesting article today from the Chicago Tribune regarding the student loan mess and the increasing uselessness of a college degree:
http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/content/education/chi-college-costs-14-oct14,0,1864072.story
59 comments:
I would like to know how many of these positions are actually going to India. I do see a huge reduction in postings for temp assignments and am hoping it is just a coincidence. This economic massacre has yet to produce any doc review work.
I have a source at Update Legal who said that a lot of projects have gone to other U.S. cities lately, instead of NYC. None of these Update firms have sent jobs to India.
If that's the case, then yes, the economic crisis is to blame. But bear in mind, September was slow last year and the year before. I know this because, by coincidence, I had projects end in 9/06 and 9/07.
There are a few morals to this story. One is don’t go crazy with tuition costs. This article, and many comments on this site, focus on the cost of private school tuition. Pick a reasonable priced instate, public school.
I went to state schools (to some extent on scholarship). Minimizing student loans is certainly the trick. Many of my friends seemed to think the student loans were in essence free money. It was not.
It has always been true that a number of blue collar jobs pay well. Is the kind of work you want to do? If so, as a good plumber, there is more you need to know than crap flows downhill and payday is Friday. You will actually have to work. And there is no better way to keep it real than be soaked in sweat and smell like day old sewage.
Much of what is wrong with this site and the complaints is that everyone seems to bemoan the lack of jobs. Forget getting a job. Open a business (such as a law office) or something else. The surest road to wealth or poverty is being an entrepreneur. Take a risk!
Forget getting a job. Open a business (such as a law office) or something else. The surest road to wealth or poverty is being an entrepreneur. Take a risk!
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And the name of your website of your business is_________? I'm sure as an entrepreneur, you could use the free advertising.
Pipe down roach boy. Not selling anything you can afford to buy.
8:46 - How do you know when an Update girl is lying? ANSWER: When her lips are moving.
The market in India is apparently booming. I will interested in hearing what this source has to say. Read any article about LPO's and you will find that they can't scoop up enough Indian graduates fast enough.
Of course, significant cost savings are the most compelling reason to use LPOs, but David Perla, co-founder of Pangea3, argues that his LPO's Indian lawyers actually produce better work than U.S. contract attorneys or staffing agency attorneys who, he claims, "lack motivation ... have minimal skills and zero motivation" and "couldn't make it as real lawyers."
While the quality of work churned out by Indian LPOs remains a hotly contested debate (as Perla's "fightin words" have cast down the gauntlet), there is no debate about whether companies and law firms are shipping more of their workload offshore.
LOL@"Not selling anything you can afford to buy." I.e., the only "business" you own is in your head.
The game is already over, the firms and corporations have already packed up and sent at least half the work, perhaps more of the first line stuff, offshore.
The absense of work is palpable.
Wrong again roach boy. I'll drop the anonymous bag when you do. Flip me your email address, and I will respond.
Every claim made by or about LPOs or the LPO "industry" is grossly overstated. Every LPO claims to have significantly more attorneys on staff than they actually do. Every LPO exaggerates the number of projects, the volume of work and the depth of their experience. There _are_ projects going to India and elsewhere. But not nearly as many as you'd think from all the hype. Someone mentioned work going to other U.S. cities - I expect that's a more likely cause of past job drain in NY. What's also likely is that end clients have gotten smarter about the costs of document review and (1) have focused on reducing the size of review projects by better, more proactive records management - e.g. there's less garbage to wade through to get to the useful stuff, so there's less need for labor to fish through the stuff, and (2) have become far more practical about the benefits and burdens of lengthy discovery forays and are making earlier settlement decisions based on the knowledge that discovery costs, even in smaller litigations, can exceed the ultimate value of the case very quickly.
LPOs are full of cheap hucksters, sleazy incompetent Americans and hack poorly trained Indian "attorneys".
What a disgrace that American companies and law firms are giving this work to foreign trained lawyers instead of American citizens/kids graduating from American schools.
Morgan Stanley outsources legal work. They are also benefiting directly from the $700 billion bailout. Companies that outsource American jobs overseas are eligible for welfare.
First there was the $440,000 American Insurance Group Inc. spent entertaining executives days after receiving an $85 billion lifeline from the Federal Reserve, now it’s $86,000 for a hunting trip in England as the faltering company reaped another $37.8 billion in taxpayer funded loans.
News of the hunting trip emerged Wednesday as New York Attorney General Andrew Cuomo ordered AIG to do away with golden parachutes for executives, golf outings and parties while taking government money to stay afloat.
“Even after the taxpayer-funded bailout of AIG, the company paid hundreds of thousands of dollars for luxurious retreats for its executives, including an overseas hunting party and a golf outing,” Cuomo wrote in a letter to the New York-based insurer.
They should be allowed to fail along with Lehman. Let the bonepickers like Warren Buffett and Hank Greenburg scoop them up and digest them.
Leave the taxpayers out of it and stop exporting our jobs!
not only should they be allowed to fail, they should get the french revolution treatment, cut off their damn heads and be done with these scumbag criminals who ruin our country forever
^ While the AIG management scumbags do certainly deserve most horrible things in life to happen to them, making statements such as we should let AIG fail (with a "serves them right attitude") shows a lack of understanding of how many jobs, many of those jobs belonging to regular people (that's one step better than most of you, but still you should be able to relate); shows a complete lack of understanding of the depth of the job market that would be affected by and AIG failure. This is very different than the Lehman model in the way it will affect everyday people. An AIG failure (because of AIG's standing as a broker and not a carrier) would be tantamount to any of the major automobile companies going under. In fact, I would venture to say it would be worse, due to the widespread geographical nature of AIG's business and the number of jobs that are created thereby.
AIG should be allowed to fail. Many of these scumbag biglaw firms should be allowed to fail. Paulson right now is handing out the 700 billion like candy to Simpson right now. Conflict of interests galore. It's so disgusting.
making statements such as we should let AIG fail (with a "serves them right attitude") shows a lack of understanding of how many jobs
That AIG will soon be eliminating as part of their "aggressive cost-cutting" measures.
^ That doesn't change the fact that AIG, perhaps moreso than the financial institutions affect other sectors, including all the insurance carriers that do business with and through AIG.
Tom, the blog has really jumped the shark when the people leaving comments have to direct the conversation. Maybe considering everyone is doing discovery, discuss discovery issues or DD issues, or anything to keep this ship from sinking. These trolls are horrible too. Do something interesting like ATL or ALP blogs. I find myself looking less and less. You have a business right here, now make it something of value or let it die and give up.
"discuss discovery issues or DD issues"
Yeah, that would be exciting. Snooze.....
No need to discuss discovery issues, anyway. Most discovery is now being conducted in Mumbai.
I see you have a very exciting life, sorry for the suggestion.
Funny stuff here.
Hopefully all this crap will generate some revenue for us and not Mumbai coders.
That doesn't change the fact that AIG, perhaps moreso than the financial institutions affect other sectors, including all the insurance carriers that do business with and through AIG.
So what? You initially claimed that anyone who wished the worse on AIG and its thief execs just didn't "understand" all the jobs that they provide. Well, here's a newsflash, fool: those jobs are gone, and mumbling about AIG's unspecified "affects on other sectors" just makes you sound like another P.R. ass.
I need a good BJ!
Tom the temp is Scott bullock upon whom I used to inflict massive amounts of simultaneous fistings and reach arounds.
Davidking said...
Tom the temp is Scott bullock upon whom I used to inflict massive amounts of simultaneous fistings and reach arounds.
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Uhh . . . and you're bragging about this?
re fewer doc review jobs related to recent financial catastrophe....If you all have followed the news on BIGLaw firm lay-offs and law firm dissolutions, you would know that litigation associates are the first to go in THIS recession. The old adage of beef up litigation departments under these conditions is not applicable in this market because ENRON, as an example, had the deep pocket of insurers and banks ultimately liable.....this time it is the government's deep pocket.....guess what, there will be no big work, except banking and derivatives work relevant to applying the $700b "bailout" (or whatever is the proper term in banking circles) and unwinding the derivatives (and that will be under the jurisdiction of the BK court for Lehman).....it isn't India which is the culprit, it is the result of law firms being canned by their clients and unwilling to go along with the "game" formerly played by the BIGlaw firms........we are back to the basics and bread and butter law.........
We are all going to be working for the govt? I should have just skipped law school and become a bus driver. They get paid better.
All this talk of India taking "our jobs" means we should strike!
Strike!!
Strike!
Temps RULE!!
This Babu from Mumbai. Why do you complain so much? We have so many jobs being created, taking them away from you.
Heeehhheheheee.
Stupid Americans!
Funny thing. Our dollar is so weak now that there are reports India has already started re-outsourcing some call center jobs back to the US, in this case it was Georgia. Guess Atlantans will now have to learn to speak English in a fake Indian accent.
Okay, and to promote my own blog...
See who's the latest inductee into the Hypocrites Hall of Infamy
The bottom line is jobs go overseas because the "Dot" Indians work cheap, not better. A great deal of their work product is "poor" to be kind. I saw it happen in I.T. back in the 1980s. They will wreck the Accounting and Legal field like they did with I.T.. I don't see any way of stopping them. Even medical tests and analysis is now being exported to save cost. I am a like glad they fucked the MDs though. Welcome to the decline of the great American Nation. As the economy goes so will the military so will the lifestyle.
It's fun reading unemployable losers commenting about the world economy like they are experts.
If you are such an f'n expert, why can't you even land a perm job, you useless sacks of shit?!!
Why don't you take a chance in life and leave New York City behind? Sure it's the greatest place in the world but there's also the greatest concentration of talent in the country.
I guarantee you, if you up and move to Des Moines, your legal career will have no problems at all.
I was actually thinking more about Mumbai or Charlotte...Iowa is too cold.
CHarlotte not a good idea, the banking giants based there (Wachovia, BofA, etc.) are all having problems and the city's unemployment rate will be spiking.
Pick somewhere in the midwest, or even the Rocky Mountains like Colorado.
btw, not sure what's happening in wilmington delaware, but there seems to have been a recent uptick in the temp market there. maybe related to financial stuff? I used to temp in wilmington and remember the temp agencies saying how much cheaper office space was compared to philadelphia. so it must be dirt cheap compared to nyc. maybe some ny work has been "outsourced" to wilmington.
7:38, another economic master/predictor of Wall St.'s future.
Hahahaha!
Paulson needs to read this blog, right?
This is the end. None of us will get jobs. We're all doomed. We're all going to starve to death. None of us will have anyplace to live. We're going to die. We're going to die.
Try moving to Houston or Dallas.
There are jobs aplenty.
But I'm sure most people on here are too prejudiced to do that.
REMEMBER:
Always take career and relocation advise from people who post as "anoymous" on a blog for unwanted law school grads.
Only one Woman can save us, and Her Name is Anita. Anita is a Goddess Who works at Constantine Cannon.
O Great, Powerful Anita! Have mercy upon us, the wretched, the hungry, the despised. Open Thy floodgates and let manna fall down upon us from on high.
Talk about a sack of lies. I just took out over $100,000 in the past year to get my JD from the University of Mumbai. I expected a swanky 11-2pm., get my dick sucked by an absolute whore of a secrtary, but all I ended up with is a warden of a supervisor named Anita Patel! She disabled minesweper from my computer and lied about having a well-stocked refrigerator. She has moles all over the sweatshop, and I swear to Buddha if I take more than a two minute potty break I'm going to be blacklisted.
Roach boy, finally a piece of comedy gold! You came through!
Re: 8:35
dude, i'm not "predicting" anything. it's an already happening fact. there was a news story (NBC Nightly News to be exact) actually in Charlotte with the mayor of the city discussing their unemployment problems. I'm sure you can find it on MSNBC or hulu or wherever.
the wilmington stuff is also an already happening fact.
Try Tower legal. They have some good gigs.
Aldan Troy Group advertises legal jobs they don't have. Avoid this agency.
Aldan Troy Group lists fictious legal jobs in order to bring in new applicants (i.e., suckers). Avoid this agency.
Also avoid Yorkson Legal and Segue Staffing.
What is wrong with Yorkson staffing? Anyone have experience with them?
I registered with Yorkson Staffing in 2007 in response to several jobs they posted. They treated me like dirt, said that the jobs were filled "right before I applied," and never contacted me. Yet they keep advertising the same jobs over and over.
Some good news for a change:
Indian rich lose 60% of their fortune as stocks dive.
http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=081114172454.iv54c6om&show_article=1
The fortunes of India's wealthiest have been slashed by more than 60 percent due to the global financial crisis which has sharply pulled down stock markets, according to a new rich list.
Forbes magazine put Mukesh Ambani, chairman of India's largest private sector firm Reliance Industries, as the country's wealthiest man, with a net worth of 20.8 billion dollars after losing 28.2 billion dollars in the past year.
He overtakes London-based steel tycoon Lakshmi Mittal who topped the list for the past four years. His net worth was 20.5 billion dollars after dropping 30.5 billion dollars on plunging steel prices.
The combined net worth of all 40 individuals on the list fell 60.3 percent to 139 billion dollars from 351 billion dollars, the magazine said.
Mukesh's younger brother Anil, who heads Reliance's telecom, power utilities and financial services businesses, was third on the list with a total wealth of 12.5 billion dollars after losing 32.5 billion dollars.
"These are painful times for India's tycoons. The country's once soaring stock markets fell 48 percent in the 12 months and the rupee depreciated 24 percent against the dollar," Forbes Asia said.
All of this conspired to knock 60 percent off the combined fortunes of the nation's 40 wealthiest. Their total net worth fell 212 billion dollars, to 139 billion dollars, down from 351 billion dollars a year ago.
The list includes two women. Savitri Jindal, who heads the industrial OP Jindal group was 12th with a net worth of 2.9 billion dollars, while Indu Jain, chairwoman of media group Bennett, Coleman & Co, was 17th with 1.8 billion dollars.
Six of last year's members had fallen out of the top 40 this year. They include United Breweries chief Vijay Mallya, who also owns premium airline Kingfisher. The magazine gave no figures on Mallya's wealth.
Others were nearly wiped out entirely, the magazine said. India's windpower entrepreneur Tulsi Tanti and his brothers lost 91 percent of their fortune, amid reports about problems with Suzlon's wind blades.
Of the 34 who retained their position, only one increased his wealth. Malvinder Singh, the chairman of generic drug firm Ranbaxy, jumped from 28th to 13th after he sold his 34 percent stake in the business to Japan's pharmaceutical house Daiichi Sankyo.
Malvinder and his brother Shivinder added 550 million dollars to their combined wealth.
Economists say some of these billionaires could continue to see tough business cycles in coming quarters. Auto, steel and finance companies have been among the hardest hit in the global financial turmoil.
"Export-oriented firms, commodity-driven businesses and software firms with financial clients will face rough times," said Siddhartha Sanyal, economist with brokerage Edelweiss Securities.
R. Balakrishnan, executive director at Centrum Broking said "paper wealth for these billionaires will continue to move sharply up or down", depending on what happens with the world economy.
For all the uninformed - a read receipt of a new version of my resume
Your message was read on Tuesday, November 25, 2008 1:15:42 AM (GMT+05:30) Chennai, Kolkata, Mumbai, New Delhi.
YouTube clip on Indian Lawyers - interesting: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tt71TnT2eXI
I'm trying to figure out what being a lawyer in India really means. It seems to be an undergraduate degree (LLB)?
Is there any bar admission process?
Any English language proficiency examination?
Check out this YouTube clip - apparently people can claim to be lawyers just by having gotten an LLB, yet have no experience in legal practice nor any formal bar admission process or filtering for quality. Also, I honestly am having trouble understanding some of the Indian laywers being interviewed, which leads me to thing there needs to be some minimum level of language screening.
Indian outsourcing chief arrested:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123150611343767875.html
http://blog.vdare.com/archives/2009/01/12/satyam-scandal-wont-change-anything/
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