"Reply to: job-677485521@craigslist.org
Date: 2008-05-12, 11:35AM EDT
Large Manhattan-based Insurance defense Law Firm is seeking several attorneys for a 2+ month document review project involving insurance issues. The correct candidate should be computer literate. No prior doc review experience necessary. 40 hours work week. Pay is $23.00 per hour. Nice work environment."
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The hidden perk of the job is that Joe Fig will be handing out free lap dances.
The hidden perk of the job is that Joe Fig will be handing out free lap dances.
http://www.philly.com/philly/business
/20080512_Adjusting_to_the_economy.html
More bad news for young lawyers...
Holy Moly. I can make about that as a regular temp doing office nonsense or reception.
this is ridiculous
Not a big fan of AGA. They are nice to you if you go along with them, but watch out if you don't play their game.
They called me this morning too. I rejected it out of hand. Hopefully, everyone will do that, and they'll raise their rate.
AGA is now feeding temps to that Deb Miller office manager monster at Arkin Kaplan Rice.
Is this fairly typical of wages offered for inexperienced doc reviewers? Also, for JDs pending admission to the bar, is this a typical offer?
You can do better if you wait around a little. You can usually get $35 if you are licensed, $30 for not yet admitted even if you are not experienced. No reason to work for $23 unless you are desperate or clueless.
AGA is now feeding temps to that Deb Miller office manager monster at Arkin Kaplan Rice.
Deb Miller is an unhappy shrew who likes to make other people miserable
The lowest I've heard of is Barasso, and they're at least in the cheaper suburbs. Golden made sure I was licensed before "offering" me this gig. Licensed doc review in the city is $35 + OT.
I thought Scott Krowitz fed temps to Deb Miller?
Deb Miller allegedly made fun of and ridiculed a Lex. temp for being overweight. When said temp complained to the gov't, Deb Miller's firm stopped using Lex. Goes to show you where the power is. Sometimes we focus on the agencies, but it's really the firms.
We're all just slaves.
Now I know what Kunta Kinte felt like when he got a terrible beating, lost his vision, and had to get those wacky eyeglasses that let him see. At least in the fictional realm, Kunte was able to escape slavery by selling himself to Starfleet and heading into outer space.
We don't have that option.
Do you not realize the real problem is the oil companies who exploited the Niger Delta for its oil and have given the people nothing but pollution. Rebel groups have tried to fight back but the government is gunning them down. This chaos has caused Nigerian attorneys to flee to the US to get low wage doc review gigs.
Do not buy gas from Shell, the largest oil company in Nigeria.
"Reply to job-677987765@craigslist.org
Date 2008-05-12, 9:30PM EDT
Mid sized Manhattan-based med-mal defense firm seeks admitted attorneys to kill rodents in its basement. Skills should include privilege review and the resourcefulness necessary to make a crude but effective spear out of sharpened pencils, duct tape, and PVC pipe. No meal plan, but you can keep what you kill. 2 weeks into the project, temp workers will be expected to fight in a no-holds barred cage match to determine who gets to stay on the project. Deaf mutes perferred.
40% chance a partner will sexually assault you (non-disclosure agreement required).
Rate is $15 per hour, no overtime
8:11 - there are a lot of fat temps. It's tough to sit around on your ass in front of a computer for 14 hours a day and not gain the Clicker's 15 (or 50, for some temps.....) Deb was probably just sick of all the temp obesity and chose to take it out on this particularly large temp.
This might also explain the low $23 per hour: Audrey Golden is showing the temp community some tough love, in the name of health. Because at $23/hr, you ain't eating much in NYC after you pay your rent and bills.
Deflate the Rate! Fight the Fat!
And who cares about your starving kids? With fat genes like yours, they need to have their appetites reigned in now before they turn into a blimp like you.
What baffles me is the fact that Deb herself is overweight. I guess fat women are threatened by other fat women.
when are we striking? arent we at WAR?
Arkin Kaplan is a freakfest. They seem to have a way of hiring naty, twisted office managers but then again who else could work with the equally awful lawyers there. Must be pretty bad if Lex-Pollution is out.
this is just the tip of the iceberg! as long a people keep taking these jobs the greedy agencies will keep lowering the rates. tell them we wont take it
Stanley Arkin churns through associates, partners, agencies, and support staff like there is no tomorrow. Anyone that works at that place is a temp.
Someone will eventually take it. Probably one of the Nigerians who will bounce the rate into one of their homegrown financing schemes and come out making $60 an hour.
Shut up about that Nigerian bullshit 11:31am. None of them go for low paying gigs. The more money, hours and overtime, that's when you see them there. What's with the anti-Nigerian bias on this site anyways? I've been noticing it crop up of late.
oh no, the Nigerians are far too smart - they like the heavy OT, high hourly rates. Check out this wonderful missive I received from them today....such an honest and hard working group, the Nigerians! They are very well connected, too.
The truth is they count on Americans to be stupid and go along with their schemes or at least look the other way...(Nigerians being defined as Nigerian citizens currently living in the USA).
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I got one too today but it claimed it was from the United Nations. I was LMAO and crying at the same time. They are all on prjects double billing with their dubious law credentials while I am a citizen and have to pay bar dues and student loans that never stop but am on the dole. This just sucks so much. Anyone know the history of them starting in with the agencies? I'd love to hear it.
The Nigerians fill very important Affirmative Action quotas for the agencies. That, along with them billing 27.5 hours per day (and getting it approved by the client) is the reason the agencies LOVE them.
That kills me though. These are not "African Americans" who are the protected class per se. They are Africans who happen to not be US citizens who are in America working and taking jobs from the rest of us.
It's a scam, but everyone looks the other way and the client doesn't know. When I was on a large project full of Nigerians, they made sure that the old, experienced, gentile, American woman talked to the client when they visited. The Nigerians were kept far, far far away.
As long as the agencies and firms make fat profits off our work, who cares? They would train a monkey or a dog to do this work if they bill $20 per hour for it. They already have Indian law graduates stealing much of our work via offshoring.
It's a sad, crumbling profession with a few at the top and many, many scrambling at the bottom. It's a disgrace that none of bar association do anything to protect us from this garbage. What IS the purpose of a bar association, besides lobbying for their pet causes?
you all are really big and brave saying this racist shit here anonymously.. Maybe your racism and ignorance is why you can't get a real job. Learn something about Nigerian culture before you go blaming them for your inability to get work, that's on YOU. And it's the greed and stupidity of Americans like YOU that lets these scams work! I only wish one of you had the balls to say this shit in person.
You can just skip the three grueling years of law school, the $100K debt, bar exam/CLE's and make just $4 less than the AGA job:
"*** ENTRY LEVEL POSITION - paralegal - no experience $20/hr **** (Midtown)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Reply to: kemperco.hr@gmail.com
Date: 2008-05-13, 1:22PM EDT
We are seeking an entry level paralegal. This is a full time position and there may be optional overtime at 1 1/2 pay ($20/hr base). Administrative duties with growth potential. Need typing, organizational, internet, and MSWord skills. Must have a stable background. Good benefits.
Please email Nathan if you are interested."
It is very disturbing to find these references to colleagues from Nigeria. I've met many, many wonderful contract attorneys who attended school both in London and Nigeria. I find that they are highly educated, have better grammer and manners, and are extremely bright and hard working. Their academic training oftentimes exceeds that of most American attorneys. There is a very solid reason why they are hired so often - they are extremely bright and hard-working. The value system they grew up with in NIgeria oftentimes seems to give them more core values and direction that anything that oftentimes is seen amongst American attorneys. If they know how to make a buck and exploit and hussle (within ethical boundaries), more power to them. Gee, what would happen if many American trained attorney decidely chose to take control of their own lifes, rather than play "victim". They know poverty, they know advantage, and they know when they have an opportunity and what to do with it. Those of you complaining are probably threatened by them. They got their breaks oftentimes because of merit, not affirmative action, in their host countries (UK and Nigeria).
Wow, you are really throwing down a nasty attack on American attorneys.
You should really think before you write this kind of ignorant garbage, especially when you are taking jobs from Americans.
Obviously you are completely unaware of the hard work (here it's a three year graduate degree called a JD) unlike abroad where it is just an undergrad degree.
Please stop acting like the world ought to kowtow to your behavior and attitude - we don't. You are guests in our country, please respect our laws and ethical guidelines.
Even Synergy, who pays attorneys 20 an hour in Florida and the Carolinas, is now in New York and paying 33 an hour. I wonder how many fools will take 23 an hour?
good question, I'm sure they've filled with some desperate recent grads. I know the HHR project started out at $19 and PW used to pay licensed attorneys $22 in the cockroach infested basement. So really this gig is doc review newbies.
My attack on many (not all) American attorneys comes from first hand experience working abroad with both U.S. attorneys and foreign trained attorneys in that host country,from working in NYC, including law firm and contract attorney work, and from being in a position to hire attorneys, both contract and full-time. Just because legal training abroad occurs earlier in time than in our country, that means nothing. The fact is their basic education from 1-10th grade far exceeds our public education system, such that moving right into legal training is a no brainer. Too often, the undergrad experience for many in the U.S. is just a repeat of their high school and college prep experience - waste of time, but a great social experience over 4 years. Much of law school could be integrated into undergraduate, and the entire system overhauled in the U.S......there is every reason to slam many American attorneys, when you learn over time, 30% of each class should never have been admitted......look around you.
I have been in the temp world for some years and I have seen a lot of homegrown scammers operate with virtual impunity. What differentiates the Nigerians from others is that scamming and corruption appear to be acceptable in their culture and they take full advantage of this crazy legal niche called doc review. I certainly do not believe that Nigerians are better educated, smarter or more hard working than American trained attorneys. English is their second language and the fact that language and writing skills are not important in doc review world makes it a great opportunity for Nigerians to earn a lot of money. There is money to be made and who can blame the Nigerians for billing the max in order to get ahead. Sure most of them scam in the process of billing a lot, but so do a lot of other people. If you don't want to put in long hours, whether they be bogus hours or hours spent doing nothing, that is your choice. The temp world unfortunately is ripe for scamming and a lot of people feel justified in doing whatever they can get away with because of the way we are treated. At least, Nigerians show that in America you can get ahead if you hustle. They do not fall for this victimisation spiel that is fed to them by race hucksters.
How ignorant can you possibly be?? English is NOT most Nigerian's second language, it's the national language. An accent does not equal secondary language. Most of them speak multiple languages and their English is better than yours. Secondly, the scamming and corruption is not 'accepted' in their culture and is the reason many of them came to America in the first place. You're making assumptions based on a few specific cases.
The ignorance and racism on this site is insane. STOP blaming others for your lack of success and stop talking about things you know NOTHING about.
10:24: English may be Nigeria's official language on paper, but that means nothing. The Nigerian temps I have encountered in the temp world do not speak or write it well. And yes my experience in the temp world is that a lot of them are well versed in scamming. You can call it racism or ignorance; I don't care. This is the reality. Experienced temps know what I am talking about. And for your information being a temp does not equate with a lack of success. I'm done with this topic.
1052 - agreed. Many, many of us understand your point exactly.
Let's put it to rest for now, however. We should be petitioning our local bar associations to help out this and other issues. What are they doing about outsourcing our jobs? What level of protection do they offer licensed bar association members against offshore attorneys? It seems crazy that after all of our hard work in law school (and yes undergrad) that we have to put up with this endless pile of bullshit.
Doc Review is NOT considered the active practice of law. You did not go to lawschool to stare at a screen all day. You deserve no protection from the ABA. Stop with your blue collar mentality. Learn to cope and take care of yourself. Stop feeling sorry for yourself. Maybe you would feel better if you actively practiced law, learned "lawyer skills", and worked your way up the pay ladder.
Close law schools!!!!
LOL, the offshoring folks are desperate to have doc review classified as "non-attorney" work so they can have their unlicensed (in the US) law school grad take the work away from our licensed attorneys.
I hate to break the news to you buddy, but it is up the each state's Bar to decide what constitutes the practice of law. It is NOT going be determined by some sleazy, fly by night offshoring shop.
Check out Gabe's Guide for another opinion on this matter:
http://gabesguide.blogspot.com/2008/05/
why-document-review-matters.html
So basically everyone makes dumb arguments (e.g. Nigerians = scammers and Americans = poorly educated).
This TTT profession truly has gone to crap.
I grew up in Nigeria. Most people my age, English was our first language. It is our lingua franca. We have more than 250 different dialects and over 150 different languages. Hence, our national language is English. I don't know what is going on with this site. Why we have to be the scapegoats for folks who bilk and scam. I'm Nigerian and I've worked with Nigerians. We don't steal and scam and overbill with impunity. Most of us have children and spouses and come to work and hustle just like you do. We pay our taxes and we go home to our families. Trust me, if we were overbilling as you guys all claim, this being the doc review world and with the vitriol I am reading on here, you guys would have reported the person a long time ago.
To the above blogger, thank you. These attacks are incredibly insulting, when in fact most of know that those who have a pattern of scamming are indeed not Nigerians, but good ole' American attorneys oftentimes who seemingly couldn't think themselves out of an equation. oftentimes, it is those very American attorneys who arrived at U.S. law schools via special accomodations and programs who are targeting Nigerians,when in fact they should be looking at themselves for why they feel so threatened by Nigerians.
"I am shocked, shocked to find scamming is going on in the temp world!" --Aday.
Actually, in terms of percentage, the Nigerians are far more egregious scammers and they operate as a criminal network. Watch out!
Of course there are scammers from all walks of life, but in Nigeria it is part of the culture.
10:54-- scamming is "part of the culture" in Nigeria?? I'm beginning to think that racism and complete ignorance is "part of the culture" among temp attorneys, not to mention talking out one's ass.
Right then why do I get dozens of phishing e-mails from Nigeria daily? Why do these people prey on old people and hard working Americans? Why does your country do nothing about it? Seems like a culture of corruption to me.
If it's so great in Nigeria, why did you and all of the others working on document review leave?
I really want to know this.
when I work a DocRev, I do everything I can to steal as much as possible, and I'm not Nigerian.(I also make a point of getting high at work as often as I can.)
What the Nigerians realize but many others fail to see is that DocRev is a scam, and the point of any scam is to get paid.
Take what you can and leave the rest, my friends.
12:29-- I'm not Nigerian, I'm American. Don't assume that we're all secretly racist like you. Just because these emails are all you know about Nigeria does not mean that's all there is or that it's acceptable there. And did you ever consider the fact that these scams only work because some stupid, greedy Americans still fall for them? "Hard-working Americans" my ass.
As for "culture of corruption"-- like America's not corrupt?? Why don't you go do some research on what Nigeria's really about and come back when you have a BASIS for your statements other than your own bitterness.
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There is one in Houston. Synergy Legal. $23/hr. For both Attorneys and JD's What a rip off!!!
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