Our pals at The "Swine Group" aka EP Dine aka "Franken-Dine" aka "EP Slime" are hard at work "deflating the rate" with this new $25 an hour cattle call that needs 100+ bodies:
http://newyork.craigslist.org/mnh/lgl/1554510102.html
As predicted on this blog months ago, the new waves of recently-admitted lemmings will drive rates to shockingly low levels. We're reached the point where agencies are testing new floors for doc review rates daily, and don't doubt that they'll fill this job w/in hours. Don't be surprised if we see rates fall to the high teens or very low twenties by mid-spring. Remember, the NY Bar 1st Dept has a big admissions ceremony in January, and then in March all the out-of-staters head up to Albany for that swearing-in. The agencies are licking their chops at this new group of desperate, heavily indebted lemmings who will code like crazy and ask for more! We learned a couple days ago that a Hudson job that's happening in NYC right now is paying $27 flat and was filled w/in hours with admitted NY attorneys.
(Another rumor awaiting confirmation is that the infamous Deloitte/Barasso gig in Westfield NJ cut the rate for incoming coders from $29 to $25- can any T the T readers confirm this?)
We certainly hope that all experienced coders boycott this project. At that rate, you might as well drive a truck or wait tables and preserve at least a bit of your pride. Posts like the new Swine project really remove all doubt that we're in an ugly, bumpy race to the bottom out in doc-review land.
*UPDATE: We learned today at Tom the Temp that the $25 an hour Dine project is at Huron Consulting. Another agency, Synergy, is staffing Huron gigs at $33 an hour and have been for some time. Apparently, Dine is simply testing the bottom to see if they can steal a few more bucks from the coders and pad their already fat bottom lines.
L4L
63 comments:
"NYC Doc Review to $20 an hour!"
Pretty soon, the bastards won't even have outsource jobs to India, since the pay difference won't be enough to warrant the move.
I'm an unemployed attorney and will be out on the streets next week. I received my eviction notice. I don't live in the New York area, but DC metro area just as bad. I kept getting promised work that never materialized and here I am. Along with a bunch of job applications from the past year telling me I'm qualified but they still chose someone else.
How can one get a doc review job in India. I am seriously thinking of moving there.
How can I get in touch with Michelle Vega?
I was out of the country for a while. I come back and no sign of Sonia and Helga and David et al. What happened???
How does anyone survive in NYC on $27 an hour?? I left the city and now living outside Boston MA(how I got here is a long story) and making $35 an hour. I barely have enough money to survive the month and I live about 15 miles outside the city of Boston.
$50,000 of credit card debt now in chargeoff status.
I choose between eating & buying gas for the week.
Oh, and I cannot get a perm job because I have been 'temping' for too long.
To the Anon from DC:
well its obvious the reason is not the 'economy' but you. You are living in a city with arguably the best job professional job market in the country. If you can't find a job or are """getting promised work that never materialized"" meaning don't call us, we will call you it means that you better take a look at yourself, your resume, your cover letter & how you perform at interviews
i am both a master of the obvious and a pipe dreamer, but doc reviewers need to stick together and not accept work at insultingly low rates, or with unacceptable work conditions. i know it is a tough proposition, though, especially with the state of the economy these days.
For un, under or shitlaw employed TT loser, lemming, lawyer.......the once great alternative to collecting unemployment benefits known as doc review........ is now relocated to India or pays so little that one is almost a fool for not collecting unemployment or working at McDonald's.
The legal money pie shrinks exponentially down to nothingness and yet the loser lawyer lemming fools still cling to the ri-god damn- diculous notion or delusion that law is, or can be, profitable and prestigious for them.....
They still delude themselves when the powers that be have made it clear that said lawland losers are not welcome at the inn.
Fools, let go of law like the sack of shit baggage that it is. Put your pride aside and just let it go. Leave it alone. You will be glad you did.
The Prophet has spoken truth to lemminghood once again.
Check out the first page of the NY Times Sunday Styles section today!!
Alert the congregation; it's all over, peeps. Will the last high-paid associate over at Cravvie turn pick up all the beer cans and turn out the lights. Game over.
I heard they're hiring in Haiti.
First, they came for the Jews. But I wasn't a Jew, so I said nothing.
Then, they came for the atheists. But I wasn't an atheist, so I said nothing.
Then, they came for the Communists. But I wasn't a Communist, so I said nothing.
Then, they came for the Catholics. But I wasn't a Catholic, so I kept my mouth shut.
Now, they've come for the lawyers. But we were all too wrapped up in ourselves, our own egos and narcissism and short-sighted greed, to say anything, so we were silent.
And now it's too late.
2:00
You really ARE a pipe-dreamer, son!!
C'mon, get with the program!! Welcome to CAPITALISM, bro'!!! This is the free market!! Globalism is GOOD!! Greed is GREAT!!
You want socialism, nephew, head on down to Venezuela and ask your pal Hugo Chavez for a job. But up here in the Home of the Brave, we practice competition, no free rides, and winner takes all!! Yeehah! I just love the smell of burning loser law grads from subpar schools who can't make it in our competitive, capitalist economy!!
"Anonymous said...
To the Anon from DC"
At first I thought you were giving some genuine advice. Then I thought, typical lawyer, I never seen so many people ready to "blame" or "attack" or "devalue" fellow professionals. Notice I did not necessarily blame anyone though there is obvious greater circumstances at work here. No loyalty or respect among lawyers. Then you wonder why people care less that we all get dumped in a makeshift career grave.
I saw an ad for someone looking for a JD in the Chicago area for $20.00/hr with no benefits.
http://chicago.craigslist.org/nwc/lgl/1524058545.html
Loop document reviewers are getting $25/hr.
http://chicago.craigslist.org/chc/lgl/1554184722.html
Depressing times.
I'm actually glad to see the rates fall. The whole reading the suit's emails for a living thing was an un-American, unconstitutional, creepy scam in the first place. I was always shocked that I was paid so well to (sort of) do it while surfing the web all day anyhow. Falling hourly rates can't be a bad thing, and are hopefully a prelude to a complete collapse of the discovery-lawsuit-big government complex. If it sucks, feels wrong, benefits nobody, and is basically fucking evil and creepy, then it's probably wrong and should end, even if it means we'll have to fucking man up and work for a living like everyone else.
Richmond VA newspaper article on starting up your own temporary attorney firm. This agency is now expanding to the DC market:
http://www2.timesdispatch.com/rtd/business/local/metrobusiness/article/NAME18_20100117-165608/318278/
In true lawyer like fashion, I cut and paste a curious post from above and then I follow with my comments of truth and wisdom in brackets for all the lemmings to see:
First, they came for the Jews. But I wasn't a Jew, so I said nothing.
[Now, in law and in much of society, it is they who come for most of us who are not they...And they control our jobs, careers and possibilities. They, along with their WASPY bretheren and sisteren, often crush those who are not they and NOBODY says or does.....what?.....nothing.
It is their elite who exterminate the dreams of those middle or lower class folks who are not chosen.]
Then, they came for the atheists. But I wasn't an atheist, so I said nothing.
[Many of the elite ones of the chosen or Martha Stewart looking variety, who impose their will and morals upon those of us who are not they, are very much anti-religon and behave in quite ungodly and cruel ways towards those of us who are not them.]
Then, they came for the Communists. But I wasn't a Communist, so I said nothing.
[Many of the elitist, PRIVILEDGED, WASPY and chosen ones who put upon the rest of us purport to have quite strong communist leanings in spite of their very strongly elitist, capitalist, racist and classist backgrounds that propelled them into their positions as our overlords.]
Then, they came for the Catholics. But I wasn't a Catholic, so I kept my mouth shut.
[Probably not a good move to be a Catholic in a WASPY and Chosen one dominated legal 'profession'. They often come for the blue collaresq, often Catholic types and nonbody often says a damn thing.]
Now, they've come for the lawyers. But we were all too wrapped up in ourselves, our own egos and narcissism and short-sighted greed, to say anything, so we were silent.
[The WASPY and Chosen overlords only come for those lawyers who are not they....otherwise they are the golden children who get biglaw. Hopefully, perhaps soon, the masses will come for most lawyers, WASPY, Chosen or not, as they continue to be exposed to the lawland scams such as the billiable hour. The house of law, as in much of this nation, implodes as its overlords butcher the dreams and income streams of all americans who are not they.
Sooner or later there will be damn near a revolution in response to the extermination of the middle and working classes by the WASPY and Chosen overlords.]
And now it's too late.
[The elite are starting to reap what they sow. The retribution from the non elite will eventually be vicious. It is too late in most cases. Especially in lawland.
So let it be written, so let it be done....You all have been foretold, once again, by the Prophet]
The rise of the permanent temporary workforce
Pay is falling, benefits are vanishing, and no one’s job is secure.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/34769831/ns/business-careers/
Get used to me, bitches. While we have already made inroads with the ABA, me and my Indian pals will be coming to a career near you.
"You know American workers are in bad shape when a low-paying, no-benefits job is considered a sweet deal. Their situation isn't likely to improve soon; some economists predict it will be years, not months, before employees regain any semblance of bargaining power. That's because this recession's unusual ferocity has accelerated trends — including offshoring, automation, the decline of labor unions' influence, new management techniques, and regulatory changes — that already had been eroding workers' economic standing.
The forecast for the next five to 10 years: more of the same, with paltry pay gains, worsening working conditions, and little job security. Right on up to the C-suite, more jobs will be freelance and temporary, and even seemingly permanent positions will be at greater risk. "When I hear people talk about temp vs. permanent jobs, I laugh," says Barry Asin, chief analyst at the Los Altos (Calif.) labor-analysis firm Staffing Industry Analysts. "The idea that any job is permanent has been well proven not to be true." As Kelly Services, CEO Carl Camden puts it: "We're all temps now."
They need to hire Susan and the positive thinking cheerleaders to rally the troops:
A Conference Board survey released on Jan. 5 found that only 45 percent of workers surveyed were satisfied with their jobs, the lowest in 22 years of polling. Poor morale can devastate performance. After making deep staff cuts following the subprime implosion, UBS, Credit Suisse, and American Express hired Harvard psychology lecturer Shawn Achor to train their remaining employees in positive thinking. Says Achor: "All the employees had just stopped working."
9:38
I agree times are tough everywhere, including Chicago, but your post is misleading. The craigslist ad you refer to for20/hour with no benefits is for a startup CPA storefront firm -- not a law firm. Also, the job is not in Chicago, but rather, a far northwest suburb. Naturally, law jobs located 40 miles outside of Chicago do not pay what law jobs in Chicago pay. I would expect Loop doc reviewers to make more than an entry-level attorney at a store front CPA firm.
I agree there are too many lawyers, but there are also too many contract agencies. I'm in Chicago and there are easily 20 agencies trying to get projects. Some firms stick with their preferred agencies, and so their rates haven't dropped much, but these new agencies come in and underbid everyone in order to get a project. The bottom feeders are now $25 an hour or lower. It used to be the lowest rate in Chicago was $30. And now firms are limiting you to 40 hours a week, so at most you can make $60k, but factoring in an average 10 weeks without a project, you are looking at at barely $50k a year.
The United States of America has become the world's foremost laboratory for globalization and deindustrialization, courtesy of the Republikkkan Party who conceived the whole plan, and the Spineless Dumbocrats who are too scared of their own shadow to stand up to 'em.
Palin will probably win in 2012 and we'll resume the National Death Spiral -- this time in overdrive.
Time to get what's left of your money out of the country, peeps. Head for Canada, Australia, or -- like my smart cousin -- New Zealand.
Game's almost over...
1:34 AM - the fact that you're paid anything for "surfing the internet all day" is a testament to your slovenly work ethic. You give the hard working contract attorneys/document reviewers a bad rep. It's real easy to criticize the agencies, corporations, etc. How much do you honestly think you should be paid for surfing he internet all day? Talk about a "shocking creepy scam": how about looking in the mirror, pal?
America actually started as a slave labor camp for cheap white labor in the early 1600s. Most whites who lived in the british colonies were actually indentured servants, aka white slaves.
Then by the end of the 1700s, the rich had phased in black labor.
So america was from the very start operated by and for Capital, the owning class.
And our federal constitution was designed to perpetuate the grip of Capital on Labor.
And even to this day americans do not even understand the difference between parliamentarian democracies and the federalist system of strong checks and balances that keeps Capital in power here.
So, perhaps it would be best for young people to go to other nations. However, I am not sure it is a good thing to leave one's extended family behind and go far away.
Homo sapiens needs family.
Yay, Recruiter is back. I didn't read what the bitch said - just happy to see a picture. The blog has been dull lately without all the colorful shticks...
So @Frank you must be a real sucker. Falling for law school is bad enough, but buying into the lawsuit-discovery complex swindle? Obviously, something so ridiculous shouldn't even exist, and anyone who lives off it ought to know better, and should know what a rip off it is. On the other hand, there's a lot of very stupid, self righteous people at these waste of time projects, so I'm sure you fit right in.
Oh but giving poor hard working coders a bad name! It's like, I bet kidnappers and turnpike toll takers cry about how hard they work too, when the reality is society would be better off without their "work" in the first place. You think the partners don't know that the warehouse full of credentialed retards is just for ripping off client? Of course they do, otherwise they'd expect performance, like at a real job. I'm proud of having seen right through the scam and that I fucking milked that bitch like a motherfucker. I hope I gave you a bad name. I hope the whole rotten system collapses--the sooner the better. And with the economic crisis as bad as it is, it just might. And I hope fuckheads like you still have many tens of thousands of dollars of law school debt when it does go down, cuz I don't. I work at a resort now, debt free sucker. Bye bye. :)
I too got emailed for this project. I was stunned and figured the buck had to stop somewhere. So I told them I wouldn't accept $25 an hour. If they don't get the bodies, they'll increase the rate. It just takes a bit of collective mobilization. A contract attorney union of sorts, perhaps?
A professor always advised us to "lawyer" our problems with the law school. Don't get personal about it. Lawyer it. Same here.
People should start counter-offering with their own rates. "No, I won't work for $25, but I will do a great job at $35." Leave it to them to accept / reject us.
$20 an hour to live in NEW YORK!? Yikes! Hard times out there for doc reviewers. Hopefully the market will pick back up soon for all of us.
This is a Huron project. Dine was paying $33 an hour before. Don't fall for this. It's a trap to see just how desperate we all are. I'd like to tell you all that this is a joke, but it's not.
Oh, and if anyone who was working at Huron at the former rate accepts the crap wages at this project, the rest of us will find out soon enough. We talk - FYI.
L4L, can you bump up this comment?
Do not forget that in 2002-2003, the time after WTC "9/11" Hudson staffed over 150+ attorneys at $19per hour. People clamored for that gig.....I think we are back there again guys. Eventually, by 2004, late 2003, rates again climbedc back to $25-$28, and by 2005-2006, the rates were back to $35, plus OT. It is cyclical. Supply and demand, and the fact there are, and will be, very very few gigs this year, and these staffing agencies also have cut costs, overhead, and their own staff. Staffing agencies also have had their lines of equity/credit cut, or eliminated, no differently than many law firms. It sucks, but this is economic reality for everyone. Best thing to do is adjust, rearrange your economic household, find roommates, and/or leave NYC/DC, East Coast...become a ruralpolitan, grow your own garden, raise cattle and chickens, and live off the land....that may be what it comes to in three (3) years...pure '60's style, MOTHER JONES style, survivalist skills.....maybe you can do some probate etc. on the side.
2:00 am.
No, refusing cases won't lead to icnreased rates in NYC. If for some reason they can't find people here willing to work for 25/hr or whatever the rate is, they will simply outsource the work. I don'd like it, but that is reality.
11:16 p.m. - I'm a "self righteous sucker" but you got paid for surfing the web all day. Sounds like you ripped off the very system that you complain about.
Comparing kidnappers and turnpike toll takers is an idiotic metaphor. But I'm sure that someone who works at a resort is more than qualified to opine what a partner of a law firm knows and/or thinks.
You missed the point: I'm not complaining about how hard I work; I'm just amazed that you derive such pleasure over taking advantage of the system.
And, by the way, I'm debt free too, pal, but I can post a comment wihout reverting to obscenities. Momma Anonymous must be very proud of you, you self righteous punk.
According to the latest report from the Bureau of Labor Statistics, the legal sector dropped another 2100 jobs in December, while the job market as a whole lost 85,000 jobs.
In November, the National Law Journal reported that so far 5,259 attorney positions had been cut by the top 250 law firms, with Latham & Watkins (who just opened in Houston) cutting the most jobs at 444. Those numbers do not include staff positions.
Get a trailer and start roaming the country in search of doc review projects. Sitting and waiting in NYC ain't gonna get no nowhere. Not all of you are as retarded as me to get a staff attorney gig. Save yourselves!!
1:16 A.M.
You're a worthless cunt.
I hope you develop a terminal case of bowel cancer.
5:36 PM (first post)
People laugh at what you said, but you are exactly right. That is the ultimate point -- and the ultimate end -- of all this outsourcing. Eventually the world achieves a "new equilibrium", where India's and America's lawyers (and workers in all fields) are paid about the same.
Anyone who thinks this is a left-wing fantasy -- SEE WHAT HAPPENS IF THESE POLICIES KEEP UP FOR ANOTHER 10-15 YEARS!!!
Just take the job and jump as soon as something better comes along. Worst that happens is you won't be an A-lister at Dine. Keep calling in sick till they fire you and put the blame back on them.
This is well below market and should be ignored. Wait for a gig over $35.
We will be reading horror stories from this gig pretty soon. For $25 per hour, you get $25 an hour lawyers.
Not a pretty sight, it will be on par with the Lexaloser Chicken coop.
I'm not currently in the job market cuz I have a very well-paying and extreeeeemly cushy legal gig already BUT I do continuously check the ads in the DC area and in recent weeks there has been a MAJOR upswing in legal job ads (good ones, too) here in DC.
Biglaw firms aside, things may actually be lookin' up in other quarters of the legal environment...
NOBODY POSTS HERE ANYMORE BECAUSE IT TAKES LIKE 48 HOURS TO SEE YOUR POSTS NOW... THANKS TOM!!!!
Once again, the people have spoken, and this time they quoted what Dick Cheney said to Pat Leahy.
Less than two weeks ago, The New York Times said that so much as a "tighter-than-expected" victory for Massachusetts Democratic Senate candidate Martha Coakley would incite "soul-searching among Democrats nationally," which sent Times readers scurrying to their dictionaries to look up this strange new word, "soul."
A close win for Coakley, the Times said, would constitute "the first real barometer of whether problems facing the party" will affect the 2010 elections.
But when Coakley actually lost the election by an astounding 5 points, the Chicago boys in the White House decided it was the chick's fault.
I like 9:04's strategy.
Regarding comment moderation, yeah thank god that thing has gone.
Now to more important stuff - call me a conspiracy theorist folks, but I feel the Democrats NEVER really wanted a healthcare plan. They felt they had to say they wanted one - but they have actually been sabotaging their own efforts including LOSING the Mass seat ON PURPOSE. This has been a sham all along - no one wants to take on the insurance companies - not even the DEMS.
We are being screwed - a slow comfortable screw...get used to it....both the DEMS and Rebulikkkans will fuck us over - good luck - I am leaving for the Andes - and fuck the law as well - I would make more as a salesman even hawking old shoes
has anyone ever taken a legal job in Abu Dhabi?? I read in the NYT a whlile back the laid-off lawyers were leaving for it and Hong Kong - any one have experience???
Is anyone working?
Who ever runs this blog has been censoring comments - and not just racist stuff. I have written serveral comments that were on point and not offensive and they have not appeared.
If you saw today's ATL, two(2) more BIGLAW firms have started the year off with more layoffs, of both attorneys and staff. Reality check...this will continue bc/ of revenues being down prior to President Os banking attack announcement today (all unrelated to the reality, but merely a new frontal attack using the past as the excuse). That translates into even more reduced revenues for BIGLAW firms who earned revenues off of the very things being outlawed as of today....so guys...find that plot of land.....doc review now will even become impossible to land, if it will exist at all in 12 months.
I just heard Craig Brown (former EP Slime President) has been fired again -- this time from Strategic. Does anyone know where he is working now. Did that nasty little troll Shawn Treadwell go with him? I hope both of them starve slowly.
I like Shawn. He is a good guy.
11:37. Yes the comments are being moderated. Thank God - no one needs to see racist and vulgar talk over and over....
I doubt Treadwell got fired, my sense is he'd through Craig under a bus..first....Must watch one's back with Treadwell.
I think this message board needs to be better moderated to remove the anti-semitic and racist rants. They don't add anything but irrational hatred.
Message for L4L -
Retracting the comment that this is definitely a Huron project. Was told by several people that it was a Huron project based on the address of the review facility. However, this may not be the case. Now we're hearing that it's being held in the same facility, but it isn't Huron.
Can you find out?
RIDICULOUS!!!!
Where the fuck is better coder? Probably making $40 an hour plus OT, banging hot paras and frequenting Nobu in his several snazzy Lacoste shirts.
More experience coders need to decline anything under $30/hr. $25/hr is a freaking insult. Unless you've been out of a job for 2 mos, boycott low-balling agencies like Dine and also Integreon.
A year ago, I confirmed a gig with Dine, and they made wait for 2 weeks, then "forgot" to send me the info. I lost 2 job offers in the meanwhile. Unprofessional douche bags playing with meals put on people's tables.
I've been boycotting Dine ever since, and am happier for it.
BTW, Integreon is low-balling and paying $25/hr to recent graduates.
They claim that they'll keep you around and recycle the same folks. But what they won't say is that they keep fraction of the group, and everyone else, they pay $25/hr. The recycler may get $30/hr or $35/hr. They even paid $15/hr in the past, so they're really screwing the whole industry. Plus, they're spending all their time building offices overseas, so the NY-gigs are really a fraction of their business and prob phase-out.
BOYCOTT INTEGREON.
Dine's really out to make a dime a dozen out of us!
yeah, my friend had that happen to her too. You should watch out for Jane Storch, she's stranger and watch your back.
A friend of mine was screwed over by Jane Storch at Dine, I would watch your back. Was a complete biaaatch.
I am surely coming again for more contents of yours.
click now
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