Thursday, September 03, 2009

The Push For Better Job Information For Incoming Law Students

Professor William Henderson is the lone responsible voice in a pack of ivory tower theives. Indiana is lucky to have him. In NY, we are surrounded by such low life scumbag "educators" as Dean Matasar, Joan "King" Wexler, and the Valvoline Dean.

http://www.abajournal.com/news/aba_should_publish_better_job_info_for_naive_law_students_prof_says/

Don't count on sensible, independent law school employment reporting coming any time soon. As Professor Henderson so accurately notes, "Regarding jobs in private practice, how many are working as contract attorneys? Nobody really knows, and the issue is not on the section's agenda. If these data are published, some law schools would probably go out of business.”

More importantly, as an astute commenter to the NY Times article noted yesterday, "It should be noted that the ABA leadership is composed of big law lawyers whose firms benefit greatly from the oversupply of lawyers because it allows the big law firms to pay rock bottom prices for the huge numbers of temp doc review attorneys they hire for large cases. Of course, these same firms then turn around and bill their clients top dollar for the same temp doc review attorneys that they are paying the lowest possible wages to. It is a win win for the big law firms. The fools who have been defrauded into persuing a law career wind up as debt and wage slaves for the benefit of big law and the banks who have offered the wage slaves loans backstopped by the government." In that vein, we have ShitStaff Staffing Agency offering this morning a pathetic, benefitless $23 an hour rate. The misery goes on.

212 comments:

1 – 200 of 212   Newer›   Newest»
Anonymous said...

Great Opportunity!
Hello,
i need a reliable financial caretaker to handle my financial errands while am out of state .you must be 20yrs old and above and also computer literate you will earn $200 per week


Principals only. Recruiters, please don't contact this job poster.
Please, no phone calls about this job!
Please do not contact job poster about other services, products or commercial interests.

Anonymous said...

I am looking for a part time job 30-35 hours as a nanny or companion. I am currently in college on weekends and have a lot of time on my hands during the week. I used to work as a nanny on weekends so I have good refereences. I am reliable, responsible and warm person. Please e-mail me back at agnisia_85@hotmail.com or call me at 845-598-5086. I live in queens by the E and F train, so I am able to commute everywhere.


This is a part-time job.
Principals only. Recruiters, please don't contact this job poster.
Please, no phone calls about this job!
Please do not contact job poster about other services, products or commercial interests.

Anonymous said...

We need an honest and reliable survey representative for our survey job. Reply for more details


Compensation: $300
Principals only. Recruiters, please don't contact this job poster.
Please, no phone calls about this job!
Please do not contact job poster about other services, products or commercial interests.

Anonymous said...

Hey up to $30/hour..skip that 3rd tier law school debt!
WE ARE HIRING FRONT DESK AGENTS FEMALES AND MALES TO WORK FULL AND PART TIME POSITIONS

*********JOB DESCRIPTION SIGNING PEOPLE IN AND OUT OF BUILDINGS ,ANSWERING TELEPHONES CALLS ,SIGNING PEOPLE IN AND OUT OF BUILDINGS ,ETC

**********YOU MUST BE 18 OR OLDER TO WORK

**********YOU MUST HAVE NO FELONY CONVICTIONS

++++++++YOU MUST HAVE SOCIAL SECURITY NUMBER

::::::::::::::::::::CALL TODAY RIGHT AWAY TO FILL POSITIONS CALL 718 262 1858 OR 718 262 0454 OR 347 881 5020 AND ASK TO SPEAK TO MR.YOUNGER

*********JOBS PAY 9 TO 11 DOLLARS PER HR AND UP FOR UNARMED

**********ARMED PAYS 25 TO 30 DOLLARS PER HR AND UP FOR ARMED YOU MUST BE 21YRS AND OLDER TO WORK ARMED

*********YOU CAN SEND US YOUR RESUME AND PHONE NUMBER TO BERT.R42@GMAIL.COM

********CALL NOW MONDAY THRU SUNDAY 9 AM TO 7:PM AND ASK FOR MR.YOUNGER

------------CALL NOW------------------


Location: ALL 5 BOROUGHS
Principals only. Recruiters, please don't contact this job poster.
Phone calls about this job are ok.
Please do not contact job poster about other services, products or commercial interests.

Anonymous said...

Reliable, thorough service from experienced worker with EXCELLENT references. Authorized to work in the US. Fluent Spanish and English. Available Mornings/Evenings. Please reply to set up an interview/ quote.


Location: Manhattan
Compensation: Request a Quote
Principals only. Recruiters, please don't contact this job poster.
Please, no phone calls about this job!
Please do not contact job poster about other services, products or commercial interests.

Anonymous said...

This position is to clean at night .

Day and time flexible. Must be comfortable with puppy. Must be willing to use environmentally friendly

cleaning supplies (which we will supply).



Pls send resume.



Location: NEW JERSEY
Compensation: Negotiate
Telecommuting is ok.
This is a part-time job.
Principals only. Recruiters, please don't contact this job poster.
Please, no phone calls about this job!
Please do not contact job poster about other services, products or commercial interests.

Anonymous said...

Whew! glad i didn't take on all that 3rd tier law school debt...got a perm paralegal gig and make close to 100k, full benefits and my own office!! sure beats being an unemployed temp doc reviewer..whos the fool????

Anonymous said...

dental plan lisa needs braces

Anonymous said...

To clear up some confusion demonstrated on some the part of many: the supply and demand of lawyers is not determined by free market principles so any arguement espousing that free market supply -demand principles are involved is extremely misleading. A taxpayor subsidy to the law schools and banks in the form of government backed loans determines the supply of lawyers. This misunderstanding applies to many areas of American economic life and is typical. Its like that lady at the town hall meeting complaining that she didn’t want the government messing with her medicare. Once again, law school candidate supply is mainly determined by government welfare to law schools and banks at the expense of the misguided law school students and lawyers. Theres is also a substantial marketing factor on the part of the ABA/ government/educational complex along with some fanciful media portrayals of lawyers contributing to the glut as well.

-PubliusEsq

Anonymous said...

What about St. Johns dean? As I remember from my big investment there that didn't pay off he was a big bag of wind who ruled the place like a private fiefdom, and didn't get people jobs.

Anonymous said...

I have a question how are Lisa's teeth?

Anonymous said...

"... got a perm paralegal gig and make close to 100k, full benefits and my own office!! sure beats being an unemployed temp doc reviewer..whos the fool????"

Nothing is perm jackass. Watch them dump you for an ex-BIGLAWyer.

Anonymous said...

Oh my golly I went to Axiom Legal website.

They have a crazy picture of an Indian woman (their temp) dancing saying:
"Law and dance are similar to me. Synthesized, they look simple - and they're meant to - but the reality is so much more complex."

http://www.axiomlegal.com/sitehome2.aspx


These Axiom people are so full of shit and you have to have your nose so up their asses to get a job there, it's ridiculous. They'll prostitute your whole private life, wife, and kids they are the worst whores in the industry by far!

Anonymous said...

I met with axiom with some Obama zombie uniraced talking head who was vomited from Sullivan or Simpson Thacher or wherever. I got the distinct impression that the place is going down the tubes and fast.

Max Power said...

Does Lisa need braces? Do I need a dental plan?

Anonymous said...

Axiom is like a Christian Science reading room, no, more like a cult. You go in, and they slap on a video. i shit you not, a video about the "Axiom Attorney". She's (its always she because its a PC, hip, Soho-ey kinda place) a go getter, but still wants a life. She's sassy, yet practical. She's comfortable in a pair of coolots as well as a stylish pair of manolos. She's the Axiom Girl!

After the inculcative mind melding tape, they give you the spiel as to how great they are. I walked out feeling like I had been hypnotized and a probe implanted in my brain. I ran. Ran to the nearest subway upon entering which I was happy. More happy than I;ve ever been to see normal people.

Temporarily Yours said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Temporarily Yours said...

1:48 I worked with paralegals and they are ghetto and vicious - at least the ones in it for the long term. This ghetto subterranean world is covered in my blog - Read all about, read all about it !!

Send me stories if you have any!!

Anonymous said...

3:32 PM, I once knew this loser, unemployed temp doc reviewer who had this dumb, childish blog..temp tales from the sub world or something..oh wait this is you!!!

waylong smithers said...

Simpson!

You and teh rest of sector 7-G do NOT need a dental plan. Drink your beer and stfu.

kthnxbye.

Recruiter said...

Before I had off to Nantucket tomorrow, I just want to remind all of you not to expect a sudden inflow of work now that the summer is coming to an end. Remember, don't call us, we will call you. Thank you for all your hard work.

-Recruiter

Anonymous said...

Recruiter - how can you afford to travel w/ your paltry income of 32k/yr?? You turning tricks on the side sister?? or working weekends in Pay/Half on Broad??

Recruiter said...

Like Ms. Nora, I am a woman of means. Mainly this job is a hobby where it allows me be grateful for the fact that I don't have to exist in the world where the other half has to live. The lord says we must an effort to be grateful, and grateful I am.

Polyester Polly said...

Don't be hatin'...
'Cause you waitin
Fo some work
And you broke...
As you wait a while
Check out Polyester Polly style...

Anonymous said...

Ha, ha - Temporarily Yours -funny blog!! I especially like your description of interview with parrot-nose Heather "Although the beads of sweat were by now rolling down her face and the twitching had intensified and the chair was clacking against the floor, I realized the queen was just getting revved up. Very manically and in a very CEO fashion started explaining the job to me and pompously asking me if I could take phone calls and keep an Excel log. "

Anonymous said...

RECENTLY ON THIS BLOG A RACIST COMMENTOR PRAISED THE JEWS AND INSULTED NIGERIANS.

WILL THE RACIST BIGOTTED FUCK WHO PRAISED THE JEWS AND INSULTED NIGERIANS PLEASE STATE WHETHER OR NOT HE/SHE IS JEWISH?

I AM NOT SAYING YOU ARE JEWISH, BUT IF YOU ARE JEWISH, THAT REALLY SUCKS BECAUSE JEWS WERE LEGITIMATE VICTIMS OF RACISM, AND JEWS WERE AMONG THE MOST PASSIONATE AND SINCERE SUPPORTERS OF THE AMERICAN CIVIL RIGHTS MOVEMENT IN THE 1950S AND 60S.

BUT THAT WAS YESTERDAY AND IT SEEMS THAT A LOT OF JEWISH BROTHERS AND SISTERS IN THEIR 20S AND 30S THESE DAYS HAVE BECOME BIGOTED FUCKS SCREAMING ABOUT AFFIRMATIVE ACTION AND AS JOINING THE RANKS OF RIGHT WING CONSERVATIVE BIGOTS LIKE RUSH LIMBAUGH, SEAN HANNITY, NEWT GINGRICH, AND THE REST OF THOSE MUTHERFUCKERS.

I'M NOT SAYING ALL YOUNG JEWS ARE BECOMING LIKE THIS BUT A SIGNIFICANT AMOUNT OF YOUNG URBAN AND SUBURBAN ENTITLED RICH SPOILED JEWS ARE, AND THIS REALLY SUCKS BECAUSE THESE PEOPLE ARE TOTALLY VULGAR, AND, TO USE ONE OF MY OWN ANCESTORS' ITALIAN SLANG WORDS, TOTALLY "GAVONE".

IF YOU ARE JEWISH AND INSULTING BLACKS AND NIGERIANS, AND ARE BIGOTED AGAINST ARABS AND MUSLIMS AND OTHER RACIAL AND ETHNIC MINORITIES IN THIS COUNTRY, THEN YOU ARE A TOTAL HYPOCRITE AND DESERVE TO BE OUTED AS A RACIST MUTHERFUCKER. AND YOU DESERVE TO BE UNEMPLOYED AND POOR.

Anonymous said...

Shut up asshole. I am a muslim and arab and part indian and I am the first to insult muslims and arabs and indians if they are being stupid and creepy. !!

Similarly I will insult anyone of ANY race who is NOt a good human being - RACE should not prevent you from pointing out that someone is not being nice!!

Anonymous said...

ALL PEOPLE ARE SHIT AND SLIME - EXCEPT BABIES AND CHILDREN UNDER 15!!

Anonymous said...

YOU SIR ARE A MORAL HYPOCRITE. YOUR HEAD IS UP YOUR ASS.

Anonymous said...

Recruiter - you are a wishful abortion.

Anonymous said...

Regarding Axiom "processing" people through their video and spiel, they do this to everyone. It happened to me and I couldnt believe their attempt at brainwashing. All these clonish girls were also parroting their talking points.

Such a joke because Mark Harris (smirk face) always claimed to resent big law firms like Davis Polk and how exploitative they were.

As to going down the drain this implies Axiom was ever successful. They always had money problems and sold their shares to Greenhill, a hedge fund, a la Update.

You will be begging to go back to Strategic and Hudson after being exposed to this mind control.

Anonymous said...

"IF YOU ARE JEWISH AND INSULTING BLACKS AND NIGERIANS, "


Obviously a person who can't read a thing and is just reciting the standard Nigerian line for use against whitey.

Someone praising how whites were jealous of Nigerian "minorities" (they are not citizens so are not minorities) they made false anti-semitic remarks. To which it was replied that the Jews achieve everything through hard work and merit, not bogus quotas like Nigerians.They also are biggest givers to charity, while Nigerians never do anything for the society and never give a dime to U.S. charities.

As usual never answer with facts just rant and rave the old "racism" line. Good job Nigerian since you don't have any skills or brains.

As for insulting "blacks" as usual Nigerians trying to assert the rights of American blacks who are our citizens. No one ever criticized blacks just you Nigerian criminal scum retards.

GET THE HELL OUT OF THE U.S. NIGERIANS!
(Better call Al Sharpton and Oprah for help!)

Anonymous said...

Axiom are mentally sick deranged clones. That's why they try to say "we not temp agency" (Mark Harris then saying "yeah right.").

Anonymous said...

whoever is using the term "nigerian" is doing so to disguise his or her actual usage of the term "ni****r" which is absolutely indefensible and clearly displays that individual's racist beliefs. Honestly, grow up.

Anonymous said...

Universities accused of hiding from USNWR the number of adjuncts they use http://snipurl.com/rlic4

Anonymous said...

Do we really need the racist comments? Can we please have more comments/thoughts like those of 1:23PM? And I am not 1:23PM. There are some great comments on this blog and I thank Tom for proving the venue.

Anonymous said...

What are you talking about with your tricks about Nigerian being a code-word? You're so full of shit. Typical McCarthyites.

Nigerians are Nigerians. Not American blacks or even any other people at all.

Nigerians are blood sucking scum and steal American jobs, push salaries down, hurt the society and country, and never ever ever do anything for society or give a dime to charity. That's why they're blood suckers.

You people who scream and yell about this never prove otherwise. Just rant and rave.

Criticism of the Nigerian LL.M.'s is totally in keeping with this site. They are not U.S. citizens, are not J.D.'s, take our jobs, put us out of work, push down wages, and have a terrible working standard which all in all is a big contributor to making the temp world a cess pool. Believe me, they give nothing back and are ingrates - as shown by their comments on this site where they say temping is not even a job so they have nothing to be thankful for.

99% of temps agree with me.

Anonymous said...

Recruter, travel safely. I have that your nigerian love child is due in November. You must be showing mad crazy.

Mazel tov!

Have named your little coder yet?

Anonymous said...

Examples and Experiences of Nigerian Advance Fee Fraud Victims

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Kidnap for Ransom Victims

(04/01) After spending ten days as a hostage in Nairobi, Kenya, San Diego resident Juergen Ahlmann and business associate James Harrell were recently reunited with their families after being rescued by police there.

Ahlmann was in Kenya to meet with a group of investors he felt would assist in his business venture expansion plans. The investors turned out to be a part of a larger ring of Nigerian criminals who successfully posed as businessmen seeking to lure Ahlmann and others to their location with the following letter and other follow-up conversations.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: INVESTMENT PROPOSAL Re: Business Proposal/Joint Venture

I run an international Business Promotion and Consultancy firm and I got your contact through the internet in my quest for a foreign investment for one of my clients.

My client is in the precious stone industry and owns mines in Tanzania and here in Kenya. He also used to deal (buy and sell) in diamonds from Angola and Democratic Republic of Congo (former Zaire) before international ban was placed on diamonds from war torn countries. Hence he decided to stop his diamond business and diversify his investment portfolio by investing abroad in different sector on partnership basis.

The followings are his specifications for your consideration and immediate attention:

1. Investment capital up to USD $9.5million

2. Area of interest - real estate, hotel, transportation, civil construction, industries, and fisheries.

3. Shares of partners depending on capital input, therefore subject to negotiation.

4. Interested party should be prepared to come to Nairobi Kenya to sign agreement with him that will protect his interest before he releases and remit his capital to the designated account for the project after which he will travel back with the person to finalize and set up the business.

Please kindly note that you need not reply if you are not satisfied with the above conditions as my client will prefer to deal with somebody serious as the entire management and running of this venture will be the person's responsibility, because it will not be possible for my client to be physically present most of the time in view of his time consuming commitments with his mine business.

Kindly give this proposal an urgent attention, as my client needs this information as soon as possible. My contacts are:

Tel: +++ 254 - 72 -721046
E-mail: megaconsult@hotmail.com
mega_consult@yahoo.com

I look forward to your immediate response.

Sincerely Yours,
MIKE OTIENO Managing Director

Anonymous said...

"whoever is using the term "nigerian" is doing so to disguise his or her actual usage of the term "ni****r" which is absolutely indefensible and clearly displays that individual's racist beliefs. "



scary that illogical, emotional ranters like this got J.D. degrees. What a waste.

Anonymous said...

Any report on what happened to Parrot nose Heather B. the Pfizer para?

Anonymous said...

The only people that actively get involved in the ABA are militant Gloria Aldrich lesbians, and biglaw honchos who want to keep their labor costs cheap.

Anonymous said...

Axiom zombies reminded me of Invasion of the Bodysnatchers meets High School Reunion. It was a mess within a mess. Read their goddamn website. Its like reading a J. Peterman catalogue, only its about humans. Folks going there must truly be desperate and even more desperate to agree to promote their likenesses on that creepy website.

Anonymous said...

11:02. No update on parrot-nose Heather - but I just read a funny piece on her interviewing temps : http://temptimesnyc.blogspot.com/

Anonymous said...

Was It Worth It? With Debt of Up to $250K, Some Law Grads Are Dubious

http://www.abajournal.com/news/
was_it_worth_it_with_debt_of_up_
to_250k_some_law_grads_are_
dubious/

Anonymous said...

What is really needed is a two pronged assault: one prong directed at the ABA and the other directed toward persuading the federal government to reduce the number of federally backstopped law school loans to an amount commensurate with the real employment demand within the profession, not the fabricated demand of the law schools. Giving bankruptcy protection to student loans would also force the banks and federal government to become more prudent in their lending practices. This second approach would get political backing because of the current federal budget deficit and collapse of the economy. Student loans should be directed into areas where they are needed, such as the sciences and tech areas, as opposed to being wasted on more producing more JDs, which the economy already has enough of.

Lawyers Against The Law School Scam said...

http://www.abajournal.com/news/was_it_worth_it_with_debt_of_up_to_250k_some_law_grads_are_dubious/


Was It Worth It? With Debt of Up to $250K, Some Law Grads Are Dubious

Posted 49 minutes ago
By Martha Neil

Zack Leshetz would like to get married and buy a home.

But his $175,000 in student loan debt is a significant roadblock, reports the Wall Street Journal in a lengthy article about the growing educational debtload being shouldered by young Americans.

Even though some of his loans are in forbearance, he is living paycheck to paycheck, the 30-year-old Fort Lauderdale, Fla., attorney tells the newspaper. Engaged since March, he is reluctant to schedule a wedding due to the cost.

"I feel like I'm putting my entire life on hold," he says.


etc

Anonymous said...

Students From Lower-Tier Schools Are Happier at BigLaw http://snipurl.com/rm0rg

Heavans Gate Staffing said...

Register with us. Join us. A revolution in a new kind of legal staffing module.

Anonymous said...

So what's wrong with doing contract work? I did that for a number of years and parlayed it into a fulltime gig and eventually a partnership. Of course, I was never stupid enough to accept a document review job.

Anonymous said...

Got news for you... law firms do not bill out document reviewers at inflated rates. They are billed out AT COST. Their profit is made from the paralegals and associates who supervise the doc review. Paralegals are billed out at $250 per hour.

Anonymous said...

"...law firms do not bill out document reviewers at inflated rates. They are billed out AT COST."

You're an idiot. If you have ever worked in a biglaw firm, you would know utterly stupid that statement is. The name of the game is the markup.

If you are paid $35 as temp, the agency gets $15 and the firm can bill you out for anywhere from $150 - 250.

If you do associate level substantive work, maybe you get paid $50 per hour, the agency $75 and the firm bills you out at $250 to $350.

The whole game is about markup. That's why the firms hire the hordes of temps.

I bet you think they charge their clients at cost for photocopies too.

You are probably the most uninformed chimp to ever post here.

Anonymous said...

I agree. The person who said doc review is billed at cost is another one of the millions of lawyers who assert things without knowing the facts. Just a mouth!

Pfizer forces law firms to hire doc review attorneys as a price for getting their business and pays for them directly. This is very uncommon because the firms have lots of other bus from Pfizer.


To prove how wrong he is, the law firm that did Enron hired 100 doc review lawyers and billed Enron $100 million. This wasn't all doc review but it was a big chunk of the cake.

Anonymous said...

AXIOM ZOMBIES = AXIOMBIES

Anonymous said...

Actually the pharmas have caught on. On my last couple of pharmas the company hired the doc reviewers directly from the temp agency. The firm supervised the review. So if this guy only did pharmas he may well have the impression that he has.

It would probably be in our best interests to have more clients hire temp attorneys in this manner. The pharmas seem to be keeping their business in the good old USA and maybe more clients would do so if they realize the savings that would come from hiring temps directly.

Anonymous said...

Profit Per Partner- A Primer on Big Law Profit

For the newbies:

How it works, and why contract workers are preferred for some tasks?

The short answer is that the partners can squeeze more profit out of contract attorneys than associates. They can squeeze more profit out of attorneys abroad than contract attorney's licensed in the U.S.

In a way, the contract attorneys in the U.S. were the canary in the coal mine to let everyone know that the legal industry was changing for the worse. The fact you are contract attorneys rather than employees proved them that they could make a greater profit by taking the idea one step further. That's why I do not complain overly much about outsourcing. The problem is not the people abroad. It is our system of supply and demand.

(At one point, contract work was chiefly substantive, but this changed to primarily doc reviews. I talked to a few attorneys who were contractors in the 90s.

They say the world I describe is alien to them. They were also paid a higher rate. Much higher than today.)

Back to PPP.

Typically, the rule of thumb used to be that PPP was broken down as a third of cost to labor or associates.

Therefore, one way to increase profits is by reducing the amount you pay associates or labor.

This is part of the drive to increase supply of lawyers. If you increase the supply of lawyer, you can pay them less.

Supply is increased in three globalization in three ways-- a) law schools b) contract attorneys and c) finally outsourcing abroad. Each step allowing greater profits for the owner of firms.

Here's a link to a story at abovethelaw.com discussing Baker McKenzie using the practice of increasing contract attorneys.

http://abovethelaw.com/2009/08/baker_mckenzie_partner_profits.php

"If outsourcing has been working for Baker & McKenzie so far, it makes sense that the firm would continue to move American legal jobs overseas in response to the new PPP numbers:

The search for cost reductions has led to more outsourcing. According to [executive committee chairman John Conroy], the firm expanded by 25 percent in what is now a 500-person facility in Manila that handles some of its word processing, client research and desktop publishing needs. "We have tried to be innovative in reducing cost by further developing what we can do in Manila," Conroy says.

Baker & McKenzie's growth hasn't been limited to its Philippines outsourcing outpost. In late 2008 the firm opened an office in Abu Dhabi. To date, Baker & McKenzie has more than 3,900 lawyers practicing at 67 offices in 39 countries. Over the past year, the firm has added nine shareholders bringing principal head count to 720.

If Baker partners are really feeling squeezed by the new numbers, they could always move to Manila. I hear from Lat that $992,000 goes a long way over there.

The PPP numbers from Baker & McKenzie are probably just an early indication of what the ledger is going to look like at many firms once 2009 goes on the books."

Note, again, that they are talking about reduced costs to increase PPP (profit per partner).

This is the name of the game, and it is why you are in a business sense being screwed whether you understand the manipulation of the market forces or not. It is manipulation because of the necessary relaxing of the ethical standards that must occur to allow foreign attorneys to practice in jurisdictions of which they are not members or to allow contract attorneys to work on matters as well.

My advice is to move on. I don't see this changing because contract attorneys are simply part of the same scheme. Even if you blocked the process abroad, they will find another way around you and continue their goal of reducing labor costs. Without a union, there is little you can do to prevent it. I do not expect anyone to unionize. So, that leaves the realistic choice of moving on.

Anonymous said...

So, PPP = TTT?

Anonymous said...

No PPP does not equal TTT.

TTT is the obsession of people here due to their insecurities over their degrees. Just like trying to assign blame to some racial group or another is.

Collectively, I am guessing most of us hail from a world in which to suceed in law you needed the right name brands on your resume of law school and law firms.

In the coming reality, PPP does not care about name brand law schools. In fact, it never did. It just used name brand as a way to gain more profits from name brand obsessed clients.

Now, the model is changing, and, again, we contract attorneys were the canaries in the coal mine about that changing paradigm. Our existence meant there would be fewer permanent jobs. Afterall, in the past, firms might have hired additional associates to do our work. But, with contract attorneys- suddenly, they did not have to hire more associates.

It has been a good ride, but that period of development is probably coming to an end.

The firm cares about maintaining the over supply of lawyers, whether that's from too many lawyers grown domestically or outsourcing abraod, the goal is to squeeze profit from labor.

They were only really hindered by the rules of legal ethics. With those barriers coming down, they can not continue the squeeze.

Brand will still matter to some degree in the future, but the requires for what brands one have will go up so that most of associates today will not make the cut whereas 10 years ago they would, and 10 years before that, most of us may have made the cut. The cut is really just a way to hide the squeeze for more PPP.

Once you understand the rules, it makes it a littel easier to ignore all the chatter. Like I said, your goal should be to get out because there is nothing on the horrizon that will probably change this dynamic.

Anonymous said...

You guys are way off about how much the firm bills you out at and how much the temp agency rips you off.

The firms are told the maximum amount that they can bill contract attorneys out at by the client. Large corporations have figured out that large law firms use contract attorneys. It's not like it's a big secret.


As far as needing a "name brand" law school to succeed, there are plenty of successful TTT law school graduates. If you define "success" as getting a job at a big firm, then you're probably right. You're not going to work your way up the ranks from contract attorney to partner. The best you'll get is a litigation assistant, which is basically a dead end job. So maybe you should figure out a way to get some real experience.

Anonymous said...

"Hi, Elefant!"

Anonymous said...

1027

a) I wrote my posts regarding PPP based on the legal. If you want to disagree, take it up with them.

b) My posts discussed potential trendlines.

First, anecdotes that differ from the trend do not refute the trend.

Second, since I am discussing trends in a changing industry, the past does not define the future.

Your argument is like discussing banking in 2005 versus banking in 2009.

c) This competition exists regardless of size of firm.

Anonymous said...

a) should read

"based on the legal media."

highschoolteacher said...

If a particular individual can't look at the BLS and make a good decision, then the particular individual's native legal talent is questionable. BUREAU OF LABOR STATISTICS! Compliments of the federal gov't. It allows someone (particular individual) to make a rational decision about their chances in any industry, without just following the advice of someone vested (lawschool) or biased (family, etc.)

cancer at update said...

th eterm nigerians is just that a term to describe the nigerians, who doc review here in masses and hook each other up through the ghetto analyst, staff attorneysand agencies. it is a scam and they scam all thye hpours amd do shit work and stinkl u8p the place.

deport them and pray the update firls get pussy canver in the ass or vice versa

f your holiday said...

spaeking of ass. remeber that fat chick at 55 broad with her tits hanging out that was fake friends with the gorilla fat door wtacher from the ghetto beloew the ghetto? i say fake friends as she'd never let that monkey in her house let alone anywhere near her with her white friends. i heard her bad talking the big chocolate beats one day to some whitey on the phone. boy that chick was fat and annoying.

Anonymous said...

Greeting Collegues,

I am a barrister with much success in america and need to remit big big 678900000000,000,0000.00 us dollar check to my law firm. I need your social security number and credit card in order to do so. i will pay you 78900000.00 when this is complete.

Huuujki Ebo DIbo, esq at laws, honors, dds optb3rd, honors

Anonymous said...

HSteacher, good point. Here's what the BLS says:

Job prospects. Competition for job openings should continue to be keen because of the large number of students graduating from law school each year. Graduates with superior academic records from highly regarded law schools will have the best job opportunities. Perhaps as a result of competition for attorney positions, lawyers are increasingly finding work in less traditional areas for which legal training is an asset, but not normally a requirement—for example, administrative, managerial, and business positions in banks, insurance firms, real estate companies, government agencies, and other organizations. Employment opportunities are expected to continue to arise in these organizations at a growing rate.

As in the past, some graduates may have to accept positions outside of their field of interest or for which they feel overqualified. Some recent law school graduates who have been unable to find permanent positions are turning to the growing number of temporary staffing firms that place attorneys in short-term jobs. This service allows companies to hire lawyers on an “as-needed” basis and permits beginning lawyers to develop practical skills.

Because of the keen competition for jobs, a law graduate’s geographic mobility and work experience assume greater importance. The willingness to relocate may be an advantage in getting a job, but to be licensed in another State, a lawyer may have to take an additional State bar examination. In addition, employers increasingly seek graduates who have advanced law degrees and experience in a specialty, such as tax, patent, or admiralty law.

Job opportunities often are adversely affected by cyclical swings in the economy. During recessions, demand declines for some discretionary legal services, such as planning estates, drafting wills, and handling real estate transactions. Also, corporations are less likely to litigate cases when declining sales and profits restrict their budgets. Some corporations and law firms will not hire new attorneys until business improves, and these establishments may even cut staff to contain costs. Several factors, however, mitigate the overall impact of recessions on lawyers; during recessions, for example, individuals and corporations face other legal problems, such as bankruptcies, foreclosures, and divorces requiring legal action.

For lawyers who wish to work independently, establishing a new practice will probably be easiest in small towns and expanding suburban areas. In such communities, competition from larger, established law firms is likely to be less than in big cities, and new lawyers may find it easier to establish a reputation among potential clients.

http://www.bls.gov/oco/ocos053.htm

---

By the way, I am employed in a full-time legal position with an excellent salary, so maybe I'm biased, but since a high school teacher brought this up, I will say this:

I have done substitute teaching in high school and I LOVE teaching. People tell me I'm a natural at it, and indeed in my current position, I give a lot of presentations (mostly PowerPoint) and use my teaching skills a lot.

Nevertheless, being an (employed) attorney beats the idea of being a high school teacher, for me, at least, by a LONG SHOT.

As far as the salary differential -- there is not even any comparison. There is simply no way I could live my current lifestyle as a high school teacher.

I could not afford my apartment or car payments. I could not afford my average 2-3 international trips a year. I could not afford having my current girlfriend. I could not afford to live where I live, or to buy decent clothes, or to eat out almost every night the way I do now.

So to me, to be a teacher, you have to fulfill two requirements:

1) you have to really love teaching

2) you have to be "all right" with the idea of living on a low salary indefinitely, unless you make a massive career change

Anonymous said...

"Hi, Joan King!"

highschoolteacher said...

I'd say the BLS gives it straight. Spread the word--the education. Never believe those with bias, and trying to get schools to publish "better information" is irrlevant. I used the BLS to make career decisions.

Anonymous said...

No one who is racist ever wants to admit they are racist. They come up with 1,746,302,867 excuses trying to deflect or distract or hide their racism, by setting up straw men and red herrings about this or that group that is "dirty", "slobs", "stinky", "slime", "scum", "lazy", etc., while ignoring their own faults, failings, lies, greed, and ineptitudes.

highschoolteacher said...

To review, which is better info? (use your keen powers of legal logic, your sharp legal acumen):

http://www.brooklaw.edu/career/contacts/staffprofiles.php

OR

http://www.bls.gov/oco/ocos053.htm

Anonymous said...

11:17

HS Teacher -- I agree with you to an extent, that the BLS info is pretty close to reality.

But, as a whole, BLS is not a fountainhead of perfect information.

For instance, the way BLS calculates the national unemployment rate has been described as highly misleading.

Unlike in other countries, where more honest and accurate statistics about unemployment rates are published, the BLS does not include long-term unemployed, i.e., so-called "discouraged workers", in their unemployment rate statistics. It also doesn't include the seriously UNDEREMPLOYED, i.e., people who are working far fewer hours than they need to.

Spain, a country many in the US would ridicule as backward, publishes an honest unemployment rate, which is currently clocked at around 25%.

So when some economic commentators and "experts" compare the US published rate (currently about 9.6%) to Spain, France, or Italy, for example, the US, even in the midst of a horrible recession, comes out having more employed people.

What they're not telling you is that the REAL unemployment rate in the US, if you were to use the HONEST method to calculate it, as they do in Europe, would be about 16% or even up to 20%.

We are failing as a country, and we've been lying to ourselves for a long, long time.

Anonymous said...

Looks like the biggest employment "growth" area for graduates of Brooklyn Law School (the OTHER BLS) might be employment as... an Associate Director of Career Services at Brooklyn Law School.

They probably place more attorneys in those jobs than they actually do outside of the law school.

Anonymous said...

I just came back from Spain. I have family that lives in Spain. There is no way that the unemployment rate is only 9% here.

highschoolteacher said...

11:17 True, but to an individual worker, unemployment calculation is irrelevant. The industry-specifec info, however, is invaluable. In our country, the info is there, but our misleading cultural narratives of self determination get in the way of good decision malking, and there is no other culprit, i.e. outsourcing.

An interesting topic for Labor day weekend!

Anonymous said...

Mass Media and Corporate America determine conventional wisdom. The middle class mantra of "getting an education" and "buying a home" came into being because Corporate America could make huge amounts of money off of those deeply ingrained beliefs.

I just read an article that discussed how the next big thing on Wall Street will be the securitization of life insurance policies. They expect it to bring in close to $500 billion in profits. In the years to come, expect the conventional wisdom on the street to start to become that owning a life insurance settlement policy is the new cutting edge retirement investment vehicle. Forget about 401K's or real estate, this will be the new thing and EVERYONE will accept it and buy into it.

Corporate America hires the top psychologists in the world and their primary aim is to manipulate our minds without us even realizing it.

c julioan is a fat cow and hope she gets canv=cer said...

you know who is not unemployed?

Nigerian scam artists and fat annoyinng gilrs that should not have gone to law school in the firsts place.

They pose no threat to dork associates and ghetto satff attorneys. So they get jobs. slaves a slave , master don't want any better

fuck you and ide you cunts!

Anonymous said...

11:33

I have family in Italy and spend a lot of time in Europe, too.

I agree with you, and I take it from your comments that when you compare the overall quality of life in Europe with that in the US, Europe comes out clearly ahead... right?

Because that is what I see. In fact, there is no comparison. In virtually every aspect of life, Europe is more advanced and better than the US.

Both Europe and the US have homelessness, but in the USA, it's much more common, ugly, and "in your face". In Europe, local governments actually DO SOMETHING about homelessness -- they actually spend money to solve it, a lot of money... they build cute little squatter communities with real, ultra-cheap individual homes and housing units in Germany, the Netherlands, etc.

Public Transportation -- vastly, vastly superior in EVERY way.

Social Services - Health Care, etc. -- vastly superior. No comparison.

Foreign Policy -- more skepticism of Israel, no knee-jerk support for Israel, more balanced approach acknowledging the concerns of the Palestinian people, etc. Not all this blind favoring of one side.

Religion -- much less "in your face", almost no Christian fundamentalists spouting their phony hypocrisy and moralism, etc.

Democracy -- politically Europe is MUCH more democratic, in a real sense, than the US system.

Press -- FAR freer and more effective in Europe.

Anonymous said...

boy hoping labor day brings puusy cancer to Christie Julian at update legal!

Anonymous said...

No one who is racist ever wants to admit they are racist. "


FUCK YOU NIGERIANS!
Racism, racism!

Anonymous said...

Liberal "pro-Nigerians" (i.e. those who say that here, but would never send their kids to school with them or go live in Nigeria) doing their usual Gestapo routine and making witch-hunt against others. Racists! I'm a big liberal from New York my kids go to private school.

Anonymous said...

12:09

LAME LAME LAME.

No one who is racist ever wants to admit they are racist. They come up with 1,746,302,867 excuses trying to deflect or distract or hide their racism, by setting up straw men and red herrings about this or that group that is "dirty", "slobs", "stinky", "slime", "scum", "lazy", etc., while ignoring their own faults, failings, lies, greed, and ineptitudes.

Anonymous said...

12:12

My wife and I sent our 16 year-old daughter to Lagos for primary and secondary school. She is betrothed to the grandson of a tribal chief from Ibadan. We winter in Yaounde, Cameroun. We are white Americans of Dutch, English, Scottish and Norwegian background. Did you know that Kofi Annan's wife is Swedish? So there are those whites who have friends in Africa.

Anonymous said...

I thinkl that fat temp at broad was named krissy. the fat one with the tits hanging out

Racist but true said...

Every nigerian working in the legal field is another broke poor white american out of work.

Anonymous said...

i just love how if you say something that is true then it is called racism. The nigerians and ghetto tyrash scam the suystem and hook each other uop. And jews are a bit of assholes to non jewews.

and Innis is a big fag that cheats on asian gilrs.

All true.

Anonymous said...

VIVA CHAVEZ!!!

Anonymous said...

11:59 A.M.

Why don't you move to a European country if it's so much better there than the United States in every possible way?

beat up an ivy grad said...

FUCKIN go fuck your self you cunts at update legal.

fuck you law school and fuck you dork asssocitaes

fuck you all and go to hgell and go fuck yourslef and your fuvking fmilies

fuck you and piss on you

Anonymous said...

Update Legal is GHETTO. The GHETTO jersey girl recruiters make it a point to find the cheapest most GHETTO saps to place on their projects. Stay away. If you hang around the GHETTO too long, you will become GHETTO.

Temporarily Yours said...

8:08 Very true. You should get out while you can -- this business is 90% ghetto. Once in a while you may find a decent project and a decent supervisor, but most of the time you will find weirdos and low-level people and they will suck the the life out of you. I kept chasing the false notion that are good projects/supervisors in Templand and kept wasting time.

Anonymous said...

Many people are delusional about how ghetto it actually is. They figure that since the job requires the services of a licensed professional that the job must be somewhat reputable. They delude themselves, and try to focus on the money. Bad idea. Even if you need to take a lower paying job scrubbing toilets that will cause you to default on your loans, do it. Remaining in the ghetto, will turn you ghetto. Just look around your work environment. For all intensive purposes, you are in the hood. Low class thugs, individuals with massive psychological issues, Nigerians who can't even speak proper English, the list goes on and on. The firms don't care. As long as everyone has a license, they believe they are covered. Your job is mostly paper churning bullshit anyway. They have zero respect for you, and you will ultimately have zero respect for yourself. As I said before, get a job scrubbing toilets or handing out hand jobs. In the long run, you will have greater self-respect.

Anonymous said...

LOL @ "For all intensive purposes".

Anonymous said...

Handing out hand jobs - I like that!! If I wasn't such a toothless hag, that's just what I would do....

Anonymous said...

Hire a Nigerian, put an American citizen out of work, and create Third World work environs.

Anonymous said...

11:59am

I am a US atty and and I have lived in Europe for about 4 years. I went through the whole process of getting a UK work permit and then a Belgian work permit. I do contract atty work in London and Brussels. A few points:

1. The EU is witnessing a decline in living standards. The financial crisis has led to a fall in potential growth in the entire North Atlantic region. Both the US and Europe will go through an adjustment period, during which growth will be lower. The US will be first to recover: it is a more dynamic economy, has a more coherent framework for macroeconomic policy, and, unlike the EU, has a genuine internal market which is not unravelling.

2. I am paid way above the normal salary here (I get about $30 an hour). Most "regular" people get by with far, far lower wages than one sees in the US. Petrol is about $5.00 a gallon (because of large government taxes). But the benefit is that those taxes subsidize health care and university education (including law and medicine) is relatively free. No one has massive student loans.

3. Granted, health care is far better here than the US. Everyone has about 80% coverage (some 100%) for out-of-pocket costs that average the equivalent of $600 a quarter. Medical/medicine costs are far lower than the US because in the US prices are artificially set to support the pharma industry.

4. And one other benefit: few countries permit credit cards. Balances must be paid off in 30 days (there are exceptions). But it means the majority of people live within their means.

4. Democracy? Ease off a bit. Europe is famous for its multi-party systems. Everyone seems to have a voice. But that means few majority parties. Most governments are formed by political party coalitions. And that means political gridlock in most countries. Nothing gets done. It is a direct result of US policy after WWII which structured multi-party states with no parties having a chance at majority. Reason? The desire for "no more Hitlers".

5. Foreign policy? Every government is cynical and corrupt no matter what country. The UK recently released the only convicted bomber in the Lockerbie case in order to gain favor with Libya in millions of dollars worth of oil contracts and other business. France's (and the UK's) long business ties to Iran are well known. Don't be naive.

But after all is said and done, after 5 years of contract work in the states, I decided to try something new and I don't regret it. My lifestyle is simpler and yes I am still paying off US loans (but the Euro-to-US dollar rate helps) but I would not trade it for anything given the social fabric and cultural fabric I have experienced here.

Anonymous said...

Quality of Life Index

QoL is what people are getting at here. Well, except the bigots. They are just here to inflict their hatred on anyone who will read it.

I think the "you should move to another country" people miss that when we compare the U.S. to other countries we want the U.S. to have a better quality of life because we are lagging.

I like this statement:

"But after all is said and done, after 5 years of contract work in the states, I decided to try something new and I don't regret it. My lifestyle is simpler and yes I am still paying off US loans (but the Euro-to-US dollar rate helps) but I would not trade it for anything given the social fabric and cultural fabric I have experienced here."

There is another way of looking at outcomes for living than how the U.S does that indexes quality of life:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quality-of-Life_Index

This measures GDP, life expectancy, community life, job security, politics, and several other factors. We only concentrate on GDP in the U.S. Indeed, the media claims we are in a "recovery" right now despite the fact it is a jobless one.

On the quality of life index the U.S. ranks 13th. We rank around 38th for quality of healthcare. I will bet many of you did not know that.

It is not that the European countries are perfect. They face racism, for example, just like the U.S.

However, even downturns are better for its citizens because the social net is better.

I think many people when they think of the middle class are thinking about whether they have a better quality of life.

The interesting thing is that there are reports of Americans going abroad for social net benefits.

I know of a guy, a conservative, with dual EU and American citizenship. He went to Europe while bitching about the "liberals" in America.

Why? Because there, they will pay for his change of career with a relatively inexpensive university system. In America, the change of career would probably cost him 200k.

Anonymous said...

249

Do not be so sure of the U.S. recovering quickly. The Obama Administration seems to be re-inflating the bad assets that lead to the credit crunch, are not addressing systemic issues and the looming commercial real estate crisis may plunge us back into a Japan style 10 year long down turn or U shaped W type double dip great recessions. While people are worried about inflation, I am worried about deflation of wages, etc. It will depend a lot on factors yet to be determined.

Anonymous said...

2.49 am tres interesant regarding your Belgium experience. You are much more adventurous than most temps who cannot see past their nose, and live in fear of a call from Update.

Your "Granted, health care is far better here than the US. " keep in mind they don't have the illegal Mexicans and would never allow them.

Anonymous said...

Response from 2:49am to 3:38am:

Great point: "The interesting thing is that there are reports of Americans going abroad for social net benefits."

I have seen a large (not huge) influx of US attys coming over here just for that: the social net benefits. And I agee: racism is an issue here, too. And can be violent (i.e. Theo van Gogh murder).

But it is an alternative. I know lots of multi-national US attys who made the move. But it's easier for them; no work permit issues. But even if you aren't multinational the UK offers carve outs for US attorneys re: work permits and Belgium offers professional cards (apply through the Belgium consulate in DC).

I just became a Belgian citizen so now I can apply for university admission anywhere in the EU although I might do it in the UK. There is a lot of UK doc review work and other substantive work for CAs, in Belgium and France, too.

Anonymous said...

2:49am response to 3:57am:

But we have a huge Arab/Muslim population here (1st, 2nd and 3rd generation) that dwarfs the Arab/Muslim population in the States. And yes, there is racism. But there is a public policy of "inclusion" so most are doumented and eligible for health coverage. Yes, there are many "illegals" just like the Mexicans/Hispanics in the States but so much less so. My girlfriend works part-time for an NGO that tracks all this stuff and the stats are surprising.

Anonymous said...

I considered moving to the U.K. This is because I am getting to an age where I am tired of the crass hardness of living in America. I want to work, but also I want to enjoy a good quality of life. I would love to stay in the U.S., but the people here- I wonder sometimes if we are too far gone as a society to value life. There is no balance.

For example, studies show that we have fewer close relationships than we did even 30 years ago. Why is that? Probably because of the mindset of each person is on their own.

I even downloaded the paperwork for the U.S. attorney in U.K route. But, I reconsidered and chickened out because I worried about missing the family and friends that I have regardless of how tough economic life is here.

I am happy to see someone else had the will to change. I may reconsider in the next few years.

Anonymous said...

By the way, the Mexican/illegal is another red herring thrown out by racists in America.

If you look up the numbers, which I have, the things that right wingers like to toss out often either have no effect or are pennies on the dollar when it comes to health care.

Tort reform, for example, has been proven to have little if any impact through research into states that have tort reform like Texas. But conservatives will push it because they realize most people do not bother to research the talking points.

Illegals are another one. If you rounded up all illegals today, economically when you break down the numbers, they are next to nothing as a percentage of cost.

What cost us so much in health care? The real reason that I our system is so expensive is that we have private health insurance companies that are oligarchs (the average family will go from paying the hidden cost of 12k per year to 22 k per year in the next 10 years-again I looked it up).

Other real factors include an aging population, allocating resources on procedures rather than results, allocating resources based on wealth rather than again results, pharmaceutical companies that charge us several times what they charge in other countries, a lack of a mechanism to negotiate lower rates for doctors and other medical services, etc.

Anonymous said...

"By the way, the Mexican/illegal is another red herring thrown out by racists in America. "


Yeah this is something just made up by a bunch of racists.

Just a red herring.

People like this are why everyone is moving to Europe.

Anonymous said...

"By the way, the Mexican/illegal is another red herring thrown out by racists in America. "


Go to the boroughs of Manhattan - Brooklyn and Bronx especially, - you see entire neighborhood which used to be white which are now 100% Spanish with PR flag hanging out the window.

I guess this is supposed to be something celebrated. By the liberals who live on the Upper West Side and in the safe suburbs of Connecticut and Minneapolis.

Anonymous said...

Diversity now!
Let Nigerians and Mexicans in.

Don't matter to me. I live in my restricted coop. No Nigerians and Mexicans within miles, and separated by water. Kids go to private schools and to the Island (no minority there) for the summer.

I'm a registered Democrat and voted for Obama. And told everyone about it and wear my Change you can believe in button.


Being a lawyer taught me how to square the circles.

Anonymous said...

Tally me banana.

Anonymous said...

"Robert Reich: Keep stimulus money away from skilled workers and “white male construction workers”. "


Obama voting temps, this is what you voted for.

Tom, please print the real racist policies (not just rants, these are policy actions) of Obama, Reich, and Van.


No stimulus money for whites, or for skilled workers.

Telling temps to go to hell.

Helga said...

Actually, the BLS publishes "Alternative measures of labor underutilization" each month. It contains 6 differing measures of unemployment. The one that the MSM quotes is usually "U3" which is misleadingly defined as "total unemployed, as a percent of the civilian labor force". The seasonally adjusted figure for August 09 is 9.7%. The most inclusive measure of unemployment is "U6", defined as "Total unemployed, plus all marginally attached workers, plus total employed part time for economic reasons, as a percent of the civilian labor force plus all marginally attached workers" - in other words, just about everybody. The U6 rate for August 2009, seasonally adjusted, is 16.8%. Check it out:
http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.t12.htm or google "bureau of labor statistics U6".

Helga said...

I'm glad to see that middle and working class Americans attending the Town Hall Meetings are finally pissed off enough at their government to subject elected and other officials to the abusive rants that they so richly deserve.

"Fuck the Rich. They're Fucking You."

Helga said...

What do you mean, nobody will admit that they are racist? Every one of us is racist no matter what color we are!! I'm not saying that racism is a good thing - I'm saying that racism simply "is." If you truely feel that you are not racist, it may be because you've never been sufficiently exposed to other races.

Geeez, you guys. I'm so bored with this race thing in these comments. Can't we please get past it? Thank you.

Anonymous said...

There is no "race thing".

There is only the Nigerian thing, foreigners stealing U.S. jobs, getting admitted without a J.D. to New York bar, scamming, and pushing wages down.

It was only the Nigerians and a few liberal Wafen S.S. who played the "race card" - as always whenever they have no answer.

Helga said...

But it isn't just the Nigerians who are running scams out of doc production rooms.

Anonymous said...

I think Helga has a point. As long I was in my Ivy League Ivory Tower living a privileged and protected life I loved all races. But when the economy was shot and I had to come down from my perch and work with different races as a temp I became more "racist". But then I realized it was more a poverty /education thing. It wasn't so much that I hated blacks/Nigerians, white crackers. It was that I hated POOR DUMB people whatever the race - and it just so happens that most minorities are poor. One can be an Aryan God, but if he/she acts like a hick I am going to hate him. I have absolutely no problem with various races as long as the people are educated, smart and decent. I think most of us CONFUSE poverty with race.

Get a life people!! You morons should be smarter than this

Anonymous said...

The townhalls showed us there are plenty of obese white crackers with no manners!!

Anonymous said...

I love watching these white angry tools screaming at the townhalls on behalf of the pharma companies.

Helga said...

You may view them as white angry tools, but the vast majority of America is made up of them and they are pissed off. They've worked their collective ass off and for what? So some shit heads on wall street and DC can ruin the economy and make retirement a dream that may never come true? And you dare look down on them?!?

What's with you guys? First its blacks and Nigerians and now its class-ism! Fat white crackers, white tools, poor dumb people of all races... Shit! Why can't those people at the Town Halls learn to dress properly!?! LOL.

Okay, everybody is pissed off and scared shitless about what's going to happen next - will NY become a ghost town? will we be eating Mac & Cheese out of a tin can with the rest of the bums? What if I can't pay the rent, but food, etc. etc. etc. But please don't try to make yourself feel better/safer by deluding yourself into thinking that your financial situation is the fault of a particular racial, ethnic, or class group. The fault belongs squarly on the shoulders of those who fucked up the economy - and those who were supposed to be policing them and didn't. Take your rage out on them, not each other. And that's what's happening at the Town Halls. Even the old, dumb, white, fat cracker (oh shit, I ran out of offensive labels again) people who don't know how to dress themselves know enough not to trust their government.

Helga said...

5:50: Oh, and while I'm ranting I wanted to say that you haven't experienced racism until you've lived in Europe. Talk about provincial! If I never hear another comment about the "national charachter" of the Belgians, the Dutch, the French, Germans, blah blah blah it will be too soon. And their opinion about people from the Middle East? Forgedaboudit. The only good thing about Europe is the food in most places (except Holland and England) and the universal health care systems - which suck by the way but they are better than those in the third world and they are better than nothing.

Okay, I'm done now.

Anonymous said...

It's true. I am a minority and I would rather live in U.S. because I feel people here have a more open, accepting child-like quality about them. Europe is like a constipated toxic old man, acting nice and sophiticated, but full of bile!! Europeans give me the creeps!!

Anonymous said...

Hey pretty Helga, What are you doing today? Do you want to go out for a drink...love your website ...

Helga said...

12:24 - thanks for the compliments and the invite but I'm out on the water fucking rich people today and won't be back in town for a few days.

BTW, when I lived in Europe I worked for a very well known law firm so was exposed to the top of the the food chain in terms of work forces. Talk about back biting nasty jealous vicious animal life. Unless you really go native, you just don't see it - they hide it very well.

phoenix said...

People need to get over themselves with this race issue. There is still white privilege, and there is also indeed racism from minorities towards whites as well. Depending on if you're a white or a minority and where exactly you are, you can suffer the effects. It does not mean one does not exist at all, or that it happens to every member of either group.

White is still the majority especially in terms of government and money, so generally, minorities face greater problems more often. For instance, with police, who, if they do, don't nearly racially profile whites as much as they do minorities. Affirmative action helps women but nobody ever talks about that, only in those cases where it helps minorities. The vast majority of minorities will never see affirmative action help them either.

The economy blows for pretty much everyone now, especially us lawyers in NY. Do some of you people seriously think skin color and ethnicity are giving any of us some great advantage in our situations?

Anonymous said...

I voted for Obama.

However, I understand the complaint that the elite of the Democratic Party and their rich supporters are insulated from the effects of their poicies.

Bussing,Affirmative Action, etc...

Same goes for "diversity" in the legal profession. The rich white WASP or Jewish Partner in Biglaw does not mind giving out Biglaw places as "diversity" chips to keep those Big corporate clients. He doesn't give 2 shits about diversity, and he and his family will be insulated from its effects....

Helga said...

12:45 you are so right about biglaw diversity programs.

Anonymous said...

I was on a project with a bunch of Nigerian and Jamaican women. They would hang out together and do jack shit. Finally, the agency fired one of the leaches because they were always on their cell phone and would disappear for hours on end. After the firing, the other women started to grumble racism. It's really sad that you have to work 10x harder on these projects if you are either white or asian.

Anonymous said...

Minorities are getting totally screwed in this economy. Most hiring is done by whites - and they tend to go for their own kind.

Hispanics and blacks are doing the worst. The Nigerians are probably only making it in thanks to Sandrene at De Novo.

Anonymous said...

I don't know about these Jamacian and Nigerian women, they probably got fired for thr right reasons, but I have gotten fired for things that I would have never gotten fired for if I was white. Remember that woman who was an analyst and made it to associate at S&C who took a knife to a temp - if I had done it I would have been spending 10 years in jail. But she was promoted to associate - because the whites took time out to understand her crime. They would never take that time out for a minority woman. That's a fact.

Anonymous said...

"The Nigerians are probably only making it in thanks to Sandrene at De Novo."


Obviously someone who has not worked on many projects. There are tons of African Americans; great, they are US. citizens.

Nigerians are not and they are unqualified trash to boot.

No agency deserves anything other than scorn for hiring them.

Anonymous said...

Arrrrr....Arrrrrrr....

I am Big Butt Sandrene, Captain of the SS slave ship Temptanic, sailing into port with a boat load of Nigerians that I rounded up on the shores of Africa.

Anonymous said...

Actually I find Nigerians much nicer and sweeter than American blacks. Having grown up in a homogenous community and not beaten around and abused like blacks, they are nicer and more confident. I have no problems with Nigerians.

Anonymous said...

Re Europe

To the guy who moved to Europe, how long did the process of obtaining the working rights in U.K. take? And, do you have to move there when you obtain the papers or are they rights you can hold outside of being in the U.K.?

Anonymous said...

reality check for the bigots. I do not expect this to change your behavior here. But, the information is out there when you look beyond your bigotry:

White unemployment: 8.9

Black unemployment: 15.1%;

Hispanic unemployment: 13%

That's the official number. Who knows what the uncounted number is with regard to those the BLS does not cover for people of color. But, you are right, you are the ones hurting "more."

Anonymous said...

Follow up

Even with the BLS numbers, if you look at the average unemployment rate for all, you have a better chance of having a job right now if you are white according to the national average than if you are a person of color.

Valvina Scissorhands said...

Fuck all of you mother%$#^&*(&^%$*&^%$#@! Pussies, assholes, cunts - you need my foot up your ass

Helga said...

Go ahead an allow yourselves to be distracted by the race baiters and race haters.

We are unemployed because Cox, Fuld, and the rest of those clowns ruined the economy.

You can cry about how one race "has it worse" than another race by percentage of population, then you can cry about how one race has it worse than another race in terms of raw numbers.

The important issue here is not one of race or gender or any of the other problems with which we distract ourselves. Nobody with even half a brain disputes that there are racial problems in the hiring and firing process.

Please wake up. You are being screwed on a daily basis by big business, big law, and your own government. These entities do not exist to serve We the People. They exist to serve the rich and powerful.

I know many of these guys quite well - they do not give a rat's ass about us. They believe that we exist to serve them and make them richer. They don't care what color our skin happens to be, they don't care if we live or die. But they sure as hell love it when we fight amongst ourselves about issues of race, gender, religion, abortion, gay rights, etc. It makes it so much easier for them to continue to screw us over.

Keep your eye on the ball.

Anonymous said...

I agree about all this race baiting. I am not a racist - I don't dislike people just because of the color of their skin. I dislike them because of what they do. And based on that I don't like Hispanic men. I have worked around them and they get HORNY if the wind blows. What's with that - they will screw ANYONE - Lifer, an old goat, a chicken -, a toothless wicth- as long as it has a HOLE!! No other race comes close to this horniess - what's with these freaks???

Anonymous said...

Oh and Helga do you think you could introduce me to some of these rich guys you fuck on a boat. I have to ditch these horny hispanics and move onto where a Queen like me should be....I am 35 with two kids - do you think I have a chance if I am deperate enough????

Anonymous said...

I'd say that everyone who is unemployed is suffering in pretty much the same way...regardless of color.

Anonymous said...

HelgaL

I posted stats to cut down on the race baiting that blames economic woes on people of color rather than on the economic structures our society. The only reason I mention it is that I was having a conversation with someone about moving to the U.K, and some bigot interjected with b.s. about illegal immigrants.

I would love to focus on the economic reasons for our country's decline, but every time Tom posts these diaries or it comes up in the rest of our society, the bigots start spewing racist b.s. Look at the health care debate, where the Birthers are showing up to question Pres Obama's nationality because he is "not American." One can disagree with Obama's actual policies without having to be racist, and yet, that is exactly what the Birthers are.

If you want a discussion over economic issues ask the racists to stop blaming people of color for their problems or Tom to moderate his site. As the numbers illustrate, they are liars, but because of the power structures in our society their lies are given a lot of attention.

I rarely come here anymore. I do not disagree with some of Tom's post. But, the fact he allows such virulent racism means I am not interested in listening to him. This particular post caught my eye because it seemed like someone was pushing for positive change.

Helga said...

When I said that I was fucking rich people, I didn't mean that I was actually FUCKING them in the sexual sense - I'm not a hooker or into group sex or multiple partners - hey, orgies - now there's an idea! Actually, I'm more into staying healthy which doesn't include the STD's that many rich men carry around like a stock portfolio.

5:23, I just finished a book entitled "Smart Girls Marry Money" by Elizabeth Ford and Daniela Drake. I highly recommend it. You should be able to find it at your local library. Also useful are the Gini Sayles books on the same topic.

As for the problem Latinos - get yourself a photograph of a very large man with lots of muscle and put it next to your terminal. They'll get the idea.

I must say that Lifer has got to be far more desireable to men than a chicken or goat... She's pretty cute, after all.

Helga said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Helga said...

Hey 6:10 - good for you. And I agree, but I think I'd rather let people post their racist bullshit than have the posts moderated. But that's just me.

Unfortunately, there is no cure for supid. You can muzzle it, you can legislate against it, you can make it a social no-no, but there is no cure. As long as people are intellectually lazy, there will be this tendency to race bait and race hate. I'm not saying that racism isn't an important issue - but in the context of the current recession, its a harmful distraction from a very basic problem for every one of us, no matter what their race happens to be.

Anonymous said...

I did marry a rich guy. A derivatives banker. He looked sweet and nice, nerd by day -- and total horn dog /sex addict at night - at strip clubs et al. Then he started bringing hookers from work home to "introduce" them to me. Finally I threw a bottle of wine at his head and busted it open...we split up shortly after. Hence the temping....Marrying a rich guy is not the answer - they have all the power and can leave you high and dry - BEING rich yourself is what will really help - So unless you plan to getting the dude's millions, not just sucking his dick to get a new dress - Now that's a plan!!!

Anonymous said...

So let me get this straight: the S&C associate who pulled a knife on someone is DIFFERENT from Valvina Scissorhands who cut up her ex-bf's clothes? That firm is bat ass crazy.

Anonymous said...

Yes, they hired the knife wielder, in fact promoted her from staff attorney to associate and DOUBLED her pay!! Now would that have happened if she was not white? I know many minority women who got canned for doing MUCH less than that. She was good at what she did - but how smart do you have to be to be a Wonderbox/paper pushing staff attorney. I did not have a law degree at the time yet I could have done all that with a GED.

Anonymous said...

And for all you haters of foreigners, I know one way to make them stop coming here. Portray America as it really is - full of hicks and bigots - and they will never come. Stop with the false advertising and marketing. People come because they are shown silly shows and movies and they have this image of America as democratic and benevolent and full of good, open, sunny people. Hah - they should just start with the posts on this blog and realize how different this country's image is from the truth. They WILL never set foot, preferring to be tramped by an elephant in the Savannahs of Africa than ghet shot by crazed craker.

Anonymous said...

Quit it with the cracker. How about we ban the Louis Farrakhan and Jeremiah Write racists?

Anonymous said...

And now for the you must be tolerant of the racist to prove you are not intollerant argument. The people being called crackers are those who are using the economic situation as an excuse to spew racism against people of color. The argument is not related to white people in general. It is related to the mindset of the bigot who would use these situations to hate people of color. No one needs to tolerate the bigot to prove that they are not racist against your bigotry. That's not toleration. That's being a doormat.

beerguzzlingtemp said...

I don't appreciate the racist coments here. It isn't productive.

Anonymous said...

"where the Birthers are showing up to question Pres Obama's nationality because he is "not American."


How is this racism?
It's in the Constitution that the president has to have been born in the U.S.

Obama seems not to have been. He has never presented his birth certificate, his kindergarten or school records, his college or law school records. These are all locked up and sealed and he has never released them.

He then has been skirting FBI checks for people like Van Jones.



No country in the world would allow someone foreign born to be their head of state. Do African countries allow this? Even the great Nigeria, according to temps the paradise educating importable lawyers, would not allow such a thing.

Anonymous said...

To the several people who said they "like" Nigerians and how much "nicer they are than American blacks", see black americans how the Nigerians are playing against you and fucking you over?

But no you think they are your brothers.

I say give jobs to American blacks and other citizens and F the nigerian crooks.

Anonymous said...

"intollerant argument. "

"That's not toleration."

another genius Nigerian.

Anonymous said...

When you show the lower employment figures for Hispanics and blacks do you also explain how many of them are on welfare and like it that way, and also show the differences in qualifications?

Anonymous said...

"Every nigerian working in the legal field is another broke poor white american out of work."


or black American or Asian American or Hispanic American.

Nigerians are job stealers. Their own home country is a disaster area of their own making. But they'll blame everything in the world on whites and colonialism, taking zero responsibility.

Forgetting that successful former colonies include Singapore, Taiwan, and the United States itself!!

Anonymous said...

"They WILL never set foot, "


I don't see any of the Nigerians going back to that shit pile of a so-called country, or going anywhere else. Their crimes are not exactly welcomed in other parts of the world, why they are persona non grata everywhere except the doc review rooms of New York - thanks NY Bar!

Anonymous said...

"Portray America as it really is - full of hicks and bigots - and they will never come. "


See, you scratch the surface a little, and you see the festering hatred these Nigerians, who take and take and take, have for the U.S. and its people.

beerguzzlingtemp said...

I worked on a bunch of projects with Nigerians and found them to be very nice.

Anonymous said...

Rely to those asking from the guy posting from Europe:

I will post some advice/links later this week. I am on a long hour gig in London (we should finish this week).

Anonymous said...

We need a casual staff for our company.The duty is just to assist in the stock keeping and delivery of our ART product within the State.The work will be for just 3hours per day and its mainly weekends,which will be mainly for delivery and reports for stock.Payment will be based on work done per hours,Also a 20% commission for jobs with no damages.Interested should email me as soon as possible.


Compensation: 20% commission
This is a part-time job.
This is a contract job.
OK to highlight this job opening for persons with disabilities
Principals only. Recruiters, please don't contact this job poster.
Please, no phone calls about this job!
Please do not contact job poster about other services, products or commercial interests.

Anonymous said...

Rapidly growing company looking to add hard working people to our team. Need people with a "can-do" attitude and no excuses. We provide company training. Must have a vehicle for everyday use. Management positions also available for those who qualify.To set up an interview call (718) 239-8630




Location: Bronx
Principals only. Recruiters, please don't contact this job poster.
Phone calls about this job are ok.
Please do not contact job poster about other services, products or commercial interests.

Anonymous said...

Urgently looking for experienced housekeeper to look after my happy family home. Someone who doesn't need to be told what to do more than once and just gets on with the job at hand.

Please email resumes to Ken Wilson at kenwilson0101@yahoo.com or call to 275-5238. Please put "Housekeeper" in subject line.


Compensation: Negotiable
This is a part-time job.
Principals only. Recruiters, please don't contact this job poster.
Please, no phone calls about this job!
Please do not contact job poster about other services, products or commercial interests

Anonymous said...

"I worked on a bunch of projects with Nigerians and found them to be very nice."


You, plus the other people who said this, HAD THE JOB and weren't put out of work by them.
In which case you would be singing a very different tune.
Most important teaching of lawyers: always put yourself first. If you have a job f everyone else say how nice the nigerians are TO YOU. Only YOU matter after all.

Anonymous said...

Re UK Guy

Thanks for posting. I will look for your comments in this cesspool. If you see this, are there agencies like there are here who handle temp work? Or, is the process different

Anonymous said...

So a few Nigerians are taking TEMP positions. Big deal. Get over yourselves. It's not like their stealing high paid mid/biglaw firm positions.

Anonymous said...

Krissy was a fatty at 55, she banged an associate and gets to keep eating.

Anonymous said...

Why blame Nigerians?? Look to the fat WHITE cats at the top that are employing them. It's a CAPITALIST system - move to Cuba if you don;t like it. You are not chained .

Anonymous said...

Or consolodate your loans, take a lower paying job where you get substanative experience for a whopping 6 months out of your life, and then get a raise.

In a year, you'll be making a salary comprable to temping. In two, you'll be making more and it's only up from that.

Anonymous said...

Whatzzzzzz up dogzzzz? Where is everyone? Does everyone have the SWINE FLU???? Are they at Town Hall Meetings?? Is everyone working???? Where is the juicy gossip - Big Mamma reporting, Clovester sighting???/ What's going on????? Is everyone working??? Am I the only loser sitting at home??? What's going on????

Anonymous said...

Beer Guzzler - how come your blog is empty - is it a reflection of your head????

Have you found a girlfriend? I know a fat chick who also plays the tuba

Anonymous said...

Did anyone else get called by Delta Force Legal in NYC for blue book training? I didn't call them back but I was just wondering if they were charging money/what the deal was/etc.

Anonymous said...

Of course, these motherfuckers are charging. I got a fucking e-mail like I did a few months ago and I dumped it. They keep sending stupid shit like training I have to pay for and NOT a single job in 1.5 years. Maybe if these bitches got me a job I would have money to pay for their "training"

Anonymous said...

Look out your windows. The Towers of Light have just turned on. Forget about this scum sucking profession and the pigs that inhabit it. Be thankful that you are still alive and that tomorrow could be your last. The scam industry has already stolen your money and your futures, don't let it steal your soul.

Anonymous said...

What the fuck are the Towers of Light??

Anonymous said...

If I don't get a job, tomorrow WILL be my last day ---

Helga said...

Nutless little trolls, if you must barf out all this racist bullshit, at least have the class to stop posting as "anonymous" - either post under an identity or stop being stupid and offensive.

Helga said...

9:31 - your last day? WTF? You aren't serious, are you?

Anonymous said...

Decent projects tend to weed out the Nigerians. They are great for showing up and billing every hour, but not so great for actually sitting down and doing the work.

They had the racket going where they would get all of their friends onto projects and bill like crazy until the project collapsed. Not to mention staying for every free meal and cars. They are masters of contributing little, but taking a lot.

Anonymous said...

Hey Helga, you're sweet...no I am not the suicidal type - I will eventually probably starve to death - but not likely to take action myself...I am just sick of this shit ...interviewed with three more agencies in addition to the 200 - and heard nothing !!Anyhoo...I suppose I must keep pushing that rock like Sisyphus...

Helga said...

9:40 - wheewwww - you scared me. Glad you are okay.

9:35 - take a giant dose of "shut the fuck up" you rat-nosed troll.

Anonymous said...

Miss Helga - when are you adding more pictures to your blog??

Helga said...

Just added a painting of Sisyphus. Will add some more stuff maybe this weekend if I get the chance. I would welcome any material that anybody can suggest. Thanks!!

Helga said...

BTW, it seems that Sisyphus had a really nice butt!

beerguzzlingtemp said...

I don't maintain a blog. Helga, some sushi maybe??

Helga said...

7:55 - maybe she was fucking the partners. Maybe her victim settled cheap. Maybe she was connected in some other way. Why do you assume that she kept her job/was promoted because of her race? Why is Valvina still employed after the Scissorhands episode? Is it because of her race? Come on - you can do better than this - I can't believe that you're a lawyer. Come up with some evidence that doesn't amount to racist speculation.

Helga said...

Beer Guzzler, you rock! I love sushi but I've gotta go to bed before I fall asleep sitting up in my chair and whack my head on this desk.

Anonymous said...

"Decent projects tend to weed out the Nigerians. "


Yes, 100% right.
However the question is why they are there in the first place. Of course their utter selfishness means they will grab anything from out of work American citizens, especially blacks.

The apologists here say blame the white fat cats at the top of the pyramid. Once again, no blame on the Nigerians, like blaming the customers of their criminal services.


The person who says "get over it" is another person sweeping their misdeeds under the rug. If they were Asians or any other race, they would be crucified.

All the Nigerians do is steal the black quota, and push down rates and quality. They also piggyback on the good work done by other temps by their retardation and non-English getting lost in the sauce.

Of course they don't get permanent positions as associates at big firms. How could they? They aren't qualified to do doc review. Do you think any client would tolerate their ooga-booga English.

They exist because the American blacks allow them to. Very sad these citizens always get suckered and screwed over by nasty takers of one kind or another.

Anonymous said...

"Robert Reich: Keep stimulus money away from skilled workers and “white male construction workers”. "

Anonymous said...

Please people do not write anything criticizing any Nigerian or "people of color". Only cast scorn on whites and crackers. Anything you say about Obama or a Nigerian is racist, unless saying how wonderful they are. Otherwise you don't believe in diversity. Recruiters who hire Nigerians should be lauded for their caring.

Anonymous said...

Michelle Obama has 26 servants.

She went into public service to give back to the country.

Liberals: say one thing, do another much worse than Bush.

Anonymous said...

"Nutless little trolls, if you must barf out all this racist bullshit, at least have the class to stop posting as "anonymous" - either post under an identity or stop being stupid and offensive."


All the standard words:
racist
bullshit
stupid
"offensive"


Good brainwashed job!

Also thanks for posting your name and address, "Helga".


A phoney liberal. Never change. Only live surrounded by each other because cannot stand to hear a different opinion.

Anonymous said...

Call me racist when you have to sit in a tiny room with a bunch of smelly Nigerians yacking on the phone all day.

Anonymous said...

And when they are yacking on the phone, you have to work that much harder. When the group quota falls below a certain level and the client gets ticked off, who do you think will get fired first? Anytime I join a project and there are a bunch of Nigerians, I try my best to jump ship, as it's clear the firm is just interested in running a billing scam.

Anonymous said...

No offense, but I am a minority woman and I have noticed that black women are ALWAYS on the phone. What's with that?

Anonymous said...

This past spring, I worked with two black chicks. Even when I got in in the morning, they were munching sugary krispy kremes and yacking away at 8:30 a.m. They never looked up from their yakking or munching to say hello, or ask if anything needed to be done. They just sat their surly and nasty and looking down as though purposely to let me know they didn't give a fuck. And then when I asked them to work, they would give me the hand. If the situation ever erupted, they would claim racism. I hate working these women. They are just a nuisance and unhappy and fuck everyone else up. I don't have such a fantastic life either, but I try to work and be pleasant. These cunts don't give a shit.

Anonymous said...

I think it has finally happened. Hirecounsel's website no longer exists. One more sweatshop officially belly-up.

Anonymous said...

" 'By the way, the Mexican/illegal is another red herring thrown out by racists in America.'


"Go to the boroughs of Manhattan - Brooklyn and Bronx especially, - you see entire neighborhood which used to be white which are now 100% Spanish with PR flag hanging out the window."

To whatever retarded racist posted this-- you realize that Puerto Rico is a U.S. territory, right? And therefore, Puerto Ricans are U.S. citizens. So what's your problem with them living in New York, again?

Anonymous said...

There's always the older white gentleman who actually gives a shit about the quality of his work on a document review: he doesn't cheat on his billing sheet, he takes reasonable breaks, he doesn't talk on the phone all day, he carefully reviews every document, he asks intelligent questions, he DOES have the courage to question the associates, and he doesn't make a fuss about not getting fucking chocolate chip cookies on Friday.

He produces high quality work.

This man usually ends up being the "last man standing" on the project, or on the privilege team, or hired again by the same firm.

If any of you losers would follow his lead, maybe you would get on the "good projects" and not the ones filled with scamming Nigerians and social retards that last 4 days instead of 4 months.

This blog warps the perception of the document review world. Most people think every project sucks and is a bust. There are good projects filled with good people. You just have to act like a fucking adult, do your work, and you can then avoid the ghetto projects and the scamming Nigerians.

Anonymous said...

somehow the words "quality" and "document review" do not sound right when used in the same sentence. The words "document review" and "monkey" or "high school dropout" seem much more appropriate.

Anonymous said...

10:48 according to your logic, then, 10:24's usage of the term "older white gentleman" can be replaced with "high school dropout monkey?"

Anonymous said...

10:48. Ha, ha, ha, ha -- that is a good one. I nearly dropped my mouse from laughter!!!

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