Thursday, September 17, 2009

Dupont, Pioneer In Legal Outsourcing Slammed For Discovery Fraud

It looks like the Dupont Corporation was recently slammed by a Florida judge for allegedly providing inaccurate and misleading discovery responses. If the plaintiffs' attorneys really wanted to have a field day, they should examine the cadre of unlicensed foreign nationals that who are currently reviewing discovery documents by the sweatshop load.


Bag said...


I love this blog but I love Casey Serin too.

Anonymous said...

How do you know they are using foreigners to review docs?

Anonymous said...


Your question is irrelevant. If fraud oversight here is so crucial, then why would it be less so abroad? It would probably be more important since the mechanisms for investigating issues of fraud are more difficult across jurisdictions.

This technique of using jurisdictional reach was one of the ways that Madoff, for example, was able to run such a huge Ponzi scheme.

Let's pretend that this individual case does not involve outsourcing.

This post is significant because it involves fraud, which tells you something about the character of the firm running the outsourcing efforts.

Or, to put another way, if I sell you a car, and tell you to trust me with regard to the engine, but you find out that I sold a lemon to the guy before you- what do you think of the car? What if you do not know I am selling lemons, and you have no mechanism for finding out?

Now, what if we are doing this transaction by phone with me in India, and you here in the U.S. You have even less ability to discern if I am committing the same fraud abroad than here other than indicators like the discovery fraud in Florida. That's the concern. That there can not be any real oversight. That's the pandora's box that clients are being subjected to.

Anonymous said...

"How do you know they are using foreigners to review docs?"

Is this supposed to be funny?

The outsourcing to India is all done by unqualified (i.e. unlicensed admitted attorneys) foreigners.

In New York and other doc reviews, lots of foreigners are used, especially Nigerias. They are completely unqualified.

This is the tip of the iceberg. It is going to be like the Arthur Andersen and other accounting scandals where the bad work gets exposed.

How does doc review work?
A few qualified people do the heavy lifting and find relevant material. The Nigerians and other mouthbreathers get lost in the sauce.

If the client comes, the Nigerians are hidden in the closet. Even though they say how welcomed they are, they know this is a lie.

Anonymous said...

12.27 I think the Satyam Computer scandal showed the lack of ethics and oversight in Indian back office operations. Does this really need to be proven? Of course the U.S. has a higher standard of legal work. That's why bringing sucky Nigerians here with their corrupt politics and standard pushes the U.S. legal system more and more into the cesspool.

Ask yourself the simple question: any person would rather work in their own country. But the thieving Nigerians wreck everything they go near. So while claiming to be better or equal to whites they do anything to be associated with UK or US whites.

Tally me fucking banana.

Anonymous said...

The UK shut the door on QLTT, whereby foreigners can become admitted in their country.

If you take this test you see the room is filled with Indians and Africans.

The Indians are welcomed because they bring lots of money and business to the UK.

Whereas the Nigerians bring crime, corruption, low standards, and ghetto. Ghetto= Nigerian.

Anonymous said...

Isn't it interesting that this article appeared in the ABA Journal, while the ABA is the biggest cause of the low standard of the legal profession and outsourcing?

Typical ABA: it became worth reporting because a Judge said it.

This case involves bananas. Maybe Nigerians could help with this. Tally me banana?

Anonymous said...

Can I not be included in the racist diatribe? We are not comrades. You are a bigot and idiot. I am not.

My post about jursidiction and ethical issues has nothing to with with race. I would have the same problem if they came from Europe. Madoff, for example, used the laws of Europe and the U.S. to confuse regulators regarding the transactions in which he was engaged.

It was not a matter of race then, and not a matter of race now except to idiot bigots. People like you are what is driving this country into the ground because of your idiotic obsession over race. Look at how the insurance and financial oligarchs are getting "morans" like you to protest against your own interest.

The jurisdictional issue is a real one. Your bigoted comments in every post here about Nigerians or whomever is irrelevant.

It is also not about their being "qualified" (which is your code language for not white) so long as they are trained as U.S. lawyers or work here as such because they have passed the necessary legal requirements that lawyers licensed to practice in the U.S. must pass. Those are the relevant qualifications I am discussing. You are discussing what color their skin is. I am not interested in your bullshit.

So, your Nigerian comment is completely off topic so long as they have obtained the necessary credentials here. Even the Indian lawyers would be find IF they were subject and trained under U.S. jurisdiction and capable of being reached in the U.S. as such. The problem is not their nationality or their skin color.

The problem despite your idiotic posts is as I described- one of power to reach them as lawyers and discern their work product meeting the ethical standards that clients need. This is why outsourcing in the law is stupid. You can not reach the parties like you need to since by necessity the law is local to the jurisdiction. This is true regardless of how good the conflict of laws or treaties to allow jurisdiction are.

Nando said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Nando said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Nando said...

See ABA "Ethics" Opinion 08-451. It allow U.S. law firms to outsource legal work to foreign lawyers AND non-lawyers.


"The foregoing notwithstanding, the Council of Legal education may consider for enrollment a person who has lost the opportunity of attending the Law School but who possesses qualifications considered acceptable by the Council. An applicant in this category may be exempted from attending the Law School if he is a citizen of Nigeria, has passed all the core courses mentioned above and has acquired a minimum five years relevant experience. Further, an applicant must demonstrate that it would be unreasonable, under the totality of the circumstances, to require him to complete law school when he lost the opportunity to attend law school due to reasons beyond his control. Persons who have completed the professional training offered by the Nigerian law school are entitled by Section 4 of the Legal Practitioners Act to be formally called to the Nigerian bar and are issued a certificate authorizing them to practice law in the country."

I do agree with you that the main problem is jurisdictional (and cultural).

I too get tired of the racist comments. Be mad at the fucking greedy law firms, the ABA, and their wealthy pig clients who actively recruit foreign lawyers so they can save some money!

Making fun of Indians and Nigerians is childish and unproductive. Plus, we are not directing our anger at the correct source - we should be directing our frustrations and contempt at the greedy capitalist, industrialist pigs.

Anonymous said...

Well, my mistake was thinking that I could argue with stupid.

The issue is not their nationality or race. The issue is whether or not this standard protects the client, the consumer, and the legal system from abuse due to inability to enforce legal ethics. by your argument , if someone went to Albania, or some poor European country to find lawyers, it is okay because you are a racists, and white is Okay. I would have the same problem with American white paralegals who are not subject to the same legal ethical requirements or under the right legal jurisdiction performing certain legal tasks.

I do not care where they come from. The question is one of legal ethics. Yes the bar is changing the rules, but they are doing so to the detriment of clients. If you were smart rather than a bigot that would be your focus. Thanks for this chat. This is why this site is a a big barrel of poo.

Anonymous said...

3:15AM, I agree that the racist comments are foolish. I also think that a lot of the document review/legal work that goes overseas is 'grunt work' that any paralegal can do. As I have posted here before, the simple tasks go overseas first so eventually only high level jobs (very few of them) remain in the USA. Find yourself another career because unless you are a brilliant lawyer, you will have no future in the USA's legal system.

Anonymous said...

It's a big setup for the idiot American (licensed) attorneys who are supposedly supervising the offshore cesspools. They will be on the hook for this egregious behavior.

Of course the law suits will be filed in US courts. Can't wait for the ABA to regale us with details of the horros their policy hath wrought.

Anonymous said...

Divide and conquer is one of most effective strategies of the ABA, big law and corporations. They know that if they can get workers to fight against each other they will be distracted from the real issues, which are the practices and conduct of the ABA, big law and corporations. The issues here are the conduct of the ABA, the firm and its client, not the race and origin of the foreign attorneys. They are just acting on opportunities given to them by American corporations, law firms, the ABA and the NY bar. It is your fellow Americans who are selling you out and need to be called to task, not the foreign attorneys who are just trying to scrounge out a living.


Anonymous said...

Dupont in house counsel is the undisputed leader in legal outsourcing. Research the Dupont legal method. They practically developed it and pushed for it.

Anonymous said...

The only racist comments are by the persons above calling other people racist and "idiots", and by the way asserting how much smarter they are.

Nigerian is a nationality not a race. Duh!

Every country has the right to give preference to its citizens and actually the U.S. does this. (Only doc review does not.) Judges and court employees have to be U.S. citizens, which is why even foreign J.D.'s cannot be clerks.
As lawyers are officers of the court, the profession should be restricted to Americans AS IT IS TO LOCAL NATIONALS IN EVERY COUNTRY THE WORLD OVER.

The people who claim critics of the Nigerians are racists never explain why these people are qualified and should be hired over U.S. citizen lawyers. Of course given the huge oversupply and waiting list of temps they ARE taking jobs from Americans. But typical selfish SOB lawyers if you have a job you say how "nice" it is to work with them.

Anyone who does not put jobs for American citizens first is a traitor, and selfish.

Anonymous said...

You should also note these race-nut Nigerian people also say how poo this site is, while they are here all the time, and actually the ones writing doo-doo in it.

Their ranting and raving about race and how right they are is a product of the law school garbage machine.

Anonymous said...

These idiots above calling others racist are so uneducated they do not even know the difference between race and nationality, which is probably one of the most important things taught in Con Law, apart from being an elementary school dictionary definition.

By saying nationality and race are the same thing they are selling out U.S. minorities, by basically saying Nigerians have equal rights to jobs as U.S. blacks which they do not (except with certain agencies.)

Anonymous said...

"Making fun of Indians and Nigerians is childish and unproductive."

No one made fun of Indians.
Another race ranter. Just play the race card night and day.

People are complaining about outsourcing to India you dipshit.
No one is complaining about American Indians working in doc review, of which there are many, or foreign Indians doing Hindi doc review.

You people have no logic it's scary!
Just play the race card.
Play the race card.

Anonymous said...

"You are a bigot and idiot. I am not."

me, me , me , me me

I am a lawyer. There is only me. The great me.

I can sing:
me, me, me, me ,me, me me!

Anonymous said...

The most important word in the dictionary: we.

The least important word: me/I.

Look at the people playing the race card here, only talking about themselves. Never see past their own noses.

Mommy and daddy taught you good. Do everything for yourself. Don't join the army. Give U.S. jobs to foreigners. Sue people to make a buck.

I'mmmmmm an attorney. A doctor of laws.
I just finished wanking.

Anonymous said...

Has anyone tried the Angus mushroom burger at McDonald's? It's like christmas, Hannukah, Kwanzaa, Cinco de Mayo and Chinese New Year going on in your mouth all at the same time!

Anonymous said...

My mouth is still recovering from the infusion of flavor that the Angus burger just left.

Anonymous said...

"Will doc review for Angus burgers"

Nando said...

It helps to read the person’s entire post before commenting. Did I say Nigerians should be taking U.S. legal work? Did I not clearly state: “Nigerians don’t even take a bar exam”?

Yes, Nigerian is a nationality. And there are in fact, white people born in Nigeria. However, look at the comments above, i.e. “Tally me fucking banana.” You think those comments are directed against whites in Nigeria?

I too am pissed that U.S. FIRMS HAVE DECIDED TO OUTSOURCE U.S. LEGAL WORK TO FOREIGNERS. But you need to direct your anger at the greedy firms and corporations that have done the outsourcing. Instead, many of you are simply playing into the hands of the wealthy and powerful big law firms, bar associations and giant corporations.

You idiots think that the “powerful” Nigerian lawyer lobby forced the ABA to adopt Ethics Opinion 08-451? So you get mad at the foreign lawyers who are taking advantage of the situation. (I mentioned Indians because I have seen many of these “anonymous” posters on this site do the same shit with Indians.)


Anonymous said...













Anonymous said...

The idea that there a lot of Nigerians working on doc review projects in NYC right now is misguided. The makeup of many projects is experienced, veteran, no-nonsense reviewers. Many are former biglaw associates and staff attorneys. The vast majority are American born and bred JDs.

Any mouthbrething nigerian scammers that slip through the cracks are weeded out quickly.

The idea that there a lot of foreigners doing doc review in NYC is silly. And outside of NYC, it doesn't exist.

So the argument holds no water. Besides, any of the foreigners have taken the time effort (however small) that those coders packed to the rafters in Indian sweatshops have not. At least the Nigerians have an LLM and pass the NY Bar. That's much better than the Indians in Mumbai. Yes, the Nigerian pawn the dopes in the LPOs.

But again, there are really so few Nigerians working anymore in NYC they are not even on the radar. They are always the first ones cut, when the firm gets a whiff of the constant phone calls and daily 3 hours lunch, it's over.

Sorry to burst your bubble Babu, but we realize that since you don't practice law here, you have to lie about silly things up to make your shaky practice of performing American legal work seem legit.

But it's not, and you would know that if you weren't totally ignorant and incompetent.

Anonymous said...

Nigerians don't get cut first.

Yolanda Young.

Whites and asians have to work ten times as hard on these gigs.

Anonymous said...

A couple years ago, there were a lot more. The firms have gotten wise to it now.

That's not to say there are not Jamaicans, African Americans, Caucasian Americans, and the occasional asian. Most asians get good grades are don't have to stoop to doc review. Sure there are some, but not many.

The days of the limitless hour projects are pretty much over. The Nigerians would "work" every available hour, but half the time would actually be running their side scams. Those scams are no longer tolerated.

Anonymous said...

I don't know what is all this hatred towards Nigerians. I have never had any problems with them - other than one or two middle-aged guy hitting on me.
They are usually quite sweet and hard-working. They feel lucky to be here and are used to hard-work back home where they don't have a welfare system or white guilt to fall back on. The trouble-makers and the people I have had the most problems getting work out of are the American blacks. They don't seem to want to work, always chatting on phones, surly, rude, get offended by anything you say and claim racism. The U.S. has brutalized many races and societies across the world, but you don't see everyone carrying on this guilt for years and years and years. American blacks need to get over it - what happens to them happens to a lot of minorities - but you don't see every minority sitting around not working.

Anonymous said...


Sorry, you can't have it both ways.
You can't both say outsourcing/giving jobs to foreigners over American citizens is wrong except for the "poor" (not) Nigerian lawyers who take doc review jobs. They are taking jobs from other people, maybe not you. So stop saying how nice and sweet they are, fool. You have an obligation as a lawyer and as a citizen to say I will not let one or more foreigners take jobs from my neighbors.

Also as for racism, most of the Nigerians are getting jobs because of racial favoritism (taking American black quota) and then get jobs for their Nigerian friends. You may say you don't care, but it is my right to say this is not how affirmative action was intended to work.

For the person who said there are almost no Nigerians in the doc review world, you are out of your mind.
Another, yet another, lawyer talking when he doesn't know anything.
Read the posts from lawyers who say their experiences on jobs with large numbers of Nigerians.
Even the Nigerians themselves have posted here and said how and why they are preferred/hired.

I haven't seen a thing about Indians, except the outsourcing complaint, which I agree with. Their may also be some question as to their not having J.D.'s and not being qualified, which also seems fair. After all we all spent a lot of time, money, and education to get qualified. Isn't that the meaning of being professional?

Anonymous said...

Regarding the tally me banana quote, I believe the person who wrote this was making fun of the fact that Nigerians speak and write terrible English (true), "wat dat" etc., part of their lack of qualification. Is the Banana Boat song something to be embarrassed about? I thought it was a sign of great culture?

Anonymous said...

These poor Nigerians, I thought someone said he worked with people who owned five houses.

I'm really crying for them!

But I guess we know who the racists are - because they are from Africa and/or black they must be poor.

Anonymous said...

ABUJA, Nigeria – One of the summer's biggest blockbusters — a sci-fi morality tale about aliens and apartheid — is not welcome in Nigeria because of its portrayal of Nigerians as gangsters and cannibals, Nigeria's information minister said Saturday.

Information Minister Dora Akunyili has asked movie houses in the capital of Abuja to stop screening "District 9" because the South Africa-based sci-fi movie about aliens and discrimination makes Nigerians look bad.

Anonymous said...

10:14 PM

The American blacks have faced years of discrimination and our society has decided that the policy of affirmative action should help compensate in some way for this.

I think this is fair and anyway it is our national policy.

The Nigerians sopping up this benefit is a disgrace, as are the people who hire and place them.

Anonymous said...

12:34 PM

yes so unfair - you do bad things and then it makes you "look bad".

That's life anywhere. You reap what you sow.

Anonymous said...

Enough of this boring crap - where's the juicy gossip. Who's getting laid at S&C, is Gaylard banging anyone else, did Whoredan have a bastard child, did Valvina cut up Figaro, did Big Mamma go into Menopause, did Clovester finally kiss Marky, did chocolate-chaser Tiny finally get his penis extended??? Come on, peoplezzzzzz, where's the REAL stories!!!

Anonymous said...

Whatzzzzzz up dogzzzz? Where is everyone? Does everyone have the SWINE FLU???? Are they at Town Hall Meetings?? Is everyone working???? Where is the juicy gossip - ???/ What's going on????? Is everyone working??? Am I the only loser sitting at home in my underwear??? What's going on????

Anonymous said...

Even my underwear now has holes in it because I can't afford to buy new one. Ben Bernanke needs to take a look at it before he goes to another press conference claiming the recession is over - that bald &^%$#@@!!

Anonymous said...

The nigerians here on visas have more rights than many American citizens. All aboard the minority train, first stop payday!

Helga said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Anonymous said...

Paging Father Coughlin!

Tom the Temp is doing you proud. There is NO reference to outsourcing in the article

Anonymous said...

Company is a major outsourcer of legal work and engages in discovery fraud. Poodle brain.

Anonymous said...

whoa, 45 comments and still no post by the "Lisa needs braces" guy?

Anonymous said...

Wrong. It's dental plan lisa needs braces.

Anonymous said...


Anonymous said...

"All aboard the minority train, first stop payday!"

you're right,
but they are not supposed to be a minority they are not even citizens.

Anonymous said...

I graduated in the top half of my class at a top law school Hofstra, have done 1 -2 on or off temp jobs but nothing steady, have sent out thousands of resumes. I am behind on alimony, child support, have never paid my mounting $190k of student loans. Is this the American dream? My dad is a sanitation worker and he has a union, nice friends, and no debt. What can I do?

Anonymous said...

You need to fuck someone asap!!! Either go to top-tier or fuck someone.

Helga said...

3:18 am - you've officially been fucked by the Great American Dream. Just lay back and think of all the money the rich are making off of us poor schmucks.

Anonymous said...

After months of deadness, I received one promising temp job email last week starting right away. I was all ready to do it even to travel to the other state. Alas then no follow up.

I feel like there are almost no jobs out there. The few remaining ones are cutting rates.

Anonymous said...

Is it really an option for me to move to India to work?
I can't believe I went to law school to have to move to a Third world country.

But is this even an option.
What will they pay me?
What is Michelle making,

Anonymous said...


Akshen said...

Tom the Temp: I assume that you are a decent and intelligent person and that you care about your reputation. I also know that you can't monitor every comment here. With all that said, however, you really need to do something about the downright racist comments being directed towards Nigerians and Indians. Let me note that I am just as angry and frustrated that the ABA and BigLaw are outsourcing work to India -- and obviously it is mainly because it affects MY wallet (there is nothing wrong to objecting to something out of informed self-interest). It has nothing to do with the color of Indian attorneys, or racist assumptions about their cultures or intelligence. (There are also issues regarding the adequacy of their training in American law, how fluent they are in English, and the fact that American attorneys have educational and professional requirements and responsibilities that Indian attorneys don't have, but I am also honest enough to say that my real personal concern is them taking work away from me.) As for the Nigerian attorneys on NYC doc review assignments: almost all of them have some sort of American legal training, they are doing the work over here in the United States earning American money and spending at least some of their money over here. They are NOT driving down wages by working over here. The only people that the Nigerian attorneys are hurting are the slackers and wackjobs on the projects, who don't have their work ethic. I'm not saying this to be some sort of PC ├╝berliberal or anything. I'm saying it because I have become friends with a number of Nigerian attorneys on the project, I have seen how hard and diligently they work, and frankly the comments and generalities made about them disgust me and are untrue.

Really, Tom, I hope that you care about your reputation as well as that of this site. I really hope that you read this message, think it through, and make some sort of announcement that you personally do not approve of the bigoted comments made here. Your site is an important source of information for many past and present doc reviewers and toilet lawyers, and you do it and yourself a disservice by not denouncing the more racist comments made here.

Anonymous said...

Here we go with the "your racist" bit again.

Anonymous said...

I think these people claiming "racism" due to the totally legitimate Nigerian hiring complaint are just Nigerians themselves, or people acting on their behalf.

Such a joke they want to censor the people who say that jobs should go to J.D. qualified American citizens.

Anonymous said...

Regarding "Akshen"

What a joker this guy is.

He says how bad Indian outsourcing is and how they are unqualified.

Then he says giving temp jobs to Nigerians is OK, how nice they are and how they are his friends, and how hard working they are.

ha ha ha.
I fell off my chair laughing.

Anonymous said...

This guy says Nigerians don't take jobs from American citizens and don't drive down wages.

ha ha ha ha ha.

Forgot to add they also fuck up the temp industry by their scamming and constantly taking advantage, causing projects to collapse or end early.

Anonymous said...

"I'm saying it because I have become friends with a number of Nigerian attorneys on the project, I have seen how hard and diligently they work, and frankly the comments and generalities made about them disgust me and are untrue."

a comedy tonight!

Anonymous said...

I think the only people complaining against the Nigerians are black Americans. They are the only ones Nigerians can affect quota-wise. Frankly, no white person worth his or her salt could view the Nigerians or any minority as a threat. Are you kidding me??? As a white person, I know the distict advantage and connection we have with a hiring white person. And minorities are hardly any threat.

Anonymous said...

In her case against Covington, why doesn't Yolanda Young bring up the fact that many firms recruit foreign Nigerians to do a run around affirmative action and dilute the rates? I think many jurors would be interested in such a thing ITE.

Anonymous said...

There is now a link to this site on the ABA Journal under the "Blawgs" section.

The federal government has to ration the number of loans to law students commensurate with the real demand for lawyers within the legal profession.

The supply of lawyers far exceeds the demand and it did before the collapse of the economy.

The law schools publish misleading and fraudulent employment data to engorge themselves with confused law school applicants.

It is unconscionable for so many law students and lawyers to bear crushing, misery producing debt for the benefit of the law schools, banks, corporations and big law when jobs for these law students and lawyers simply do not exist.

Excess demand of law grads produces cutthroat job competition, unethical behavior, frivolous lawsuits, loan defaults, which the government and taxpayer then have to eat, and miserable underemployed and unemployed debt slaves.

The ABA must stop accrediting new law schools or stand down as a quasi regulatory body for the benefit of the profession and the nation. The ABA has also endorsed the outsourcing of legal work, which is unethical and a disservice to clients because of the differential in language skills, education and licensing of foreign attorneys compaired to highly trained U.S. attorneys.

The oversupply of lawyers has weakened the legal profession and endangered the country because job security has become so tenuous that practioners can no longer perform the gatekeeper function of telling their clients "no" when these clients are engaging in illegal activity, especially in regard to corporations and banks.

The number of seats available to law school applicants must be equal to the jobs available within the legal community and the federal government should not be backstopping an unlimited number of law schools because of the waste and misery produced by this practice.


Anonymous said...


The thing about being racist in America in 2009 is that the racists no longer feel comfortable being called racists so they will swear they are not. You have people dressing President Obama up as a monkey telling him to go back to Africa who say they are not racist either. So, the fact, that you there are posters here who are so obviously bigots in denial about their bigotry is not much of a surprise at this point. Today, bigotry is left to those who burn crosses on lawns in a movie about the South rather than people who go on and on about some subgroup they have irrationally decided to hate on. I have been on multiple projects big and small over the years. There are very few Nigerians on projects, and yet, the bigots seized on them at this site.

Anonymous said...

By the way, the fact that the guy running this site does no moderate it tells me that he really does not care that there is open bigotry at his site. I have a blog. I know that you have compete discretion about what appears here. Yet you do nothing about it. Why is that? Please do not say free speech. You are not government. You are not required to let every comment, no matter how vile, be utters at your site. It is your choice, but it makes you look bad to have these comments posted in every thread that you write. Do you have an outer bounds for human behavior beyond bitching about document reviews? Because there is an old saying- if you want equity, you need to give equity. You may want to remember that when allowing these nasty comments to survive on your site while asking for others to have empathy for your situation. Why should they give you empathy when you act without empathy?

Anonymous said...


Well said.

Or the people who, to evade admitting to their own racism, call others racist.

For instance, Glenn Beck calling Obama racist.

This is a psychological phenomenon called "projection" and these people take it to the extreme.

Racism is so deeply ingrained in some people in America that it completely short-circuits the entire remainder of their brains.

If you looked at a map of their brains, 3/4 of the entire brain would be "racism" and the remaining 1/4 would be dedicated to thinking about everything else.

No wonder these people are such cretins. And no wonder they're always the easiest to manipulate when Corporate America is looking for warm bodies to send to anti-health care reform rallies, or anti-anything liberal rallies.

These are the warm bodies that attended last weekend's big Anti-Obama Bash here in DC. A bunch of pot-bellied, corn-fed goons with ugly skin conditions wearing American flags, bussed in by corporate front groups, and put up at luxury hotels to scream slogans about how Obama is a "Muslim" and has no birth certificate, and by the way his health care plan sucks and is socialist.

Anonymous said...

Actually, I am a minority Mr 8:42 and while comments about minorities do hurt me I still believe we should be allowed to read and see all viewpoints. I much prefer to read this shit and see what darkness lurks in the hearts of men than have it moderated, be cleansed and stupidly believe that everyone thinks I am equal. I prepare for war everyday and I need to see my enemies.

Anonymous said...

I have a blog too - and I don't moderate either - just spam - I like to see what people are REALLY feeling - let the hate and bile and misery spill out...they just look stupid

as far as I know we all have nasty looking hairy assholes, we all shit and fart, die, pick our noses, some of us have less sunscreen in our skin, that's pretty much it...

Anonymous said...

The problem with let people say whatever they want to say on a blog like this is that this blog is trying to put out an agenda about how the industry should be by arguing that practices are unfair. I agree with the discussion about the industry, but including the bigotry into the mix will lead many to discount the message of the site. This is is a matter of perception. If Tom what's his site to have credibility, he will consider whether racists are what he wants s the predominate comments on the site. Indeed, most of the racist comments come across as someone with Tourette's Syndrome because they often have very little to do with the articles. He can do what he wants with his site. But he's not helping his real arguments. He's hurting them. Someone can link to his nasty comments sections in a way that avoids his underlying points.

Anonymous said...

This site is not about what darkness lurks in the bigots heart. It is about the employment and contract work in the legal industry. The racist comments distract rather than increase our understanding of that issue. Like I said, maybe the site owner does not care. I can not speak for him. But it does cause a distraction to anyone who may, for example, want to link to Tom's site like me, but will not because of the bigotry in the comments section.

Anonymous said...

I agree. This site was never known as being Rated G. If you are so offended, why do you come back and read it time and time again? We don't need some benevolent moderator to protect our innocent eyes from vile ugliness and stupidy. The law is 99% phoniness and false postering. Let's keep it real here, warts and all.

Anonymous said...

8.36, 9.50

Yes, racism is whatever you say it is.
Two real Hitlers here.
They can mind-read and say what you are subliminally thinking.

They even go from your complaint about hiring Nigerians to talk about Glenn Beck and Obama.

A liberal: an absolutely illogical person who will say anything and who are like Hitler.

Anonymous said...

No according to the Nigerians who wrote here, whites are smelly and don't take showers, dress like slobs, and are not as educated as they are. They said most of the states of the U.S. (which gives them jobs and money) are stupid cracker.

But noooooooooo the idiots complaining about racism never mention that.

Noooooooo, only how "nice" the Nigerians are.
"They're nice". "I like working with them." "I, I I I I I".

Anonymous said...

What the hell does Glenn Beck have to do with being a contract attorney?

Anonymous said...

"For instance, Glenn Beck calling Obama racist.

This is a psychological phenomenon called "projection" and these people take it to the extreme."

Hello both a lawyer and a psychiatrist.
(unemployed in both professions!)

Anonymous said...

"This site is not about what darkness lurks in the bigots heart. It is about the employment and contract work in the legal industry. "

Hello moron?
Aren't all the complaints about Nigerians saying that they steal U.S. worker jobs, get less qualified than Americans, push rates down, and do things that tend to end jobs? What could be more relevant to this site and to the "contract industry"?

Only you to help your Nigerian "nice" "friends" try to twist this into a race card issue. It's the old game everyone can see through this.
Then you threaten the site owner and say if he doesn't censor this (because you wouldn't want to upset the Nigerian job theft) you will tar and feather him, too.

A liberal and Nigerian pro: the Hitler think.

Temporarily Yours said...

Just because someone can 'cleanse" a site through moderation he/she cannot cleanse people's hearts and souls and what they really think. There is already too much political correctness and fakery - and stifling people will not help encourage real debate. You need to see the real thing in order to change things and not live with a false sense of security. It's hurtful and mean - but all too often many of us get caught off guard by not really knowing how people feel.

Anonymous said...

"Nigerians are so nice." "I like them."

Nigerian (SW) criminal gangs busted yet again

Posted Tuesday, September 8, 2009

Minneapolis-St. Paul, Minnesota: 11 Nigerians face federal charges for credit card scam


Eleven people have been charged in federal court in the Twin Cities with fraud for a counterfeit credit card scam that allegedly netted them more than $650,000.

The defendants were charged last week with using the bogus cards to withdraw the cash from more than 170 automatic teller machines in the metro area.

According to the criminal complaint filed last week in U.S. District Court, the defendants obtained personal information about customers of Capital One Bank from an online source based in the Ukraine.

With the stolen information in hand, the defendants allegedly manufactured the counterfeit cards with that information. They were then able to obtain new personal ID numbers from the bank which allowed them to withdraw $652,205 from the teller machines.

According to the complaint, some of the stolen money was converted into cashier checks and used to purchase vehicle parts or vehicles with salvage titles; the vehicles were then shipped to Nigeria, and sold at inflated prices.

Some of the defendants allegedly recruited Nigerian residents in Minneapolis to buy vehicles at auto auctions, giving them cash to make the purchases.

According to a U.S. Secret Service affidavit, one of the defendants bragged about how he could not "get caught conducting his illegal activity" because he was "very good at covering his tracks."

Charged with one count of bank fraud and one count of access device fraud are Adekunle Kayode Ayeni, 27, Yewande Mariam Sholebo, unknown age, Adewale Alba Alli, unknown age, Olayemi Lateef Banjoko, unknown age, Idowu Ayinla Sadiq, unknown age, Abiodun Banjoko, unknown age, and Oyetoyin Oseni Atobatele, unknown age, all of Fridley; along with Bashiru Adelumola Fowoshere, 36, and Titilayo Abidewi Fowoshere, unknown age, both of Ramsey; Oriyomi Enitan Olowosago, unknown age, Brooklyn Park; and Ajibola Alli Fowoshere, 34, address unknown.

Eight of the 11 were arrested last Friday, when they also made their initial court appearance. Three remain at large.

Anonymous said...

I am hurt by some of the things being said about the Nigerians. There is a lot of generalizing and scapegoating going on. I know one particular girl who was very kind and like all of us got screwed over by New York Law School and now is stuck with massive law school debt. She just happens to be Nigerian. Should she be lumped in with the scammers just because she shares their racial background? Of course not.

Regardless, I think trying to censor these morons would be very counter-productive. Once you start censoring people where do you draw the line? I used to enjoy jdunderground because of its frank and honest discussion. Recently, the administrator got on his morality high horse and started to moderate what people could and could not say. The censoring cut out a lot of the nonsense, but they have (based on the whims of whoever happens to be moderating at that time) gone overboard and started blotting out a lot of relevant discussion regarding the law school scam. I no longer read that site as I am bored by their blanded down political discussions and the constant trolling by those interested in the law school industry.

99% of the legal websites out there are cleansed down and give a bs sanitized version of what it means to be a young working class lawyer today. It's nice to have one place where one can go to vent and let the bitterness and frustration spew. I am constantly surprised by those who read the title of this site and then are surprised by what they discover in the comments. Furthermore, I am equally shocked by the fact that after being offended, they come back again and again for more.

Unless there is blatant spamming or someone is unfairly being attacked on an individual level (Big Mamma and Valvina notwithstanding because they are horrific animals that sadistically make the lives of others miserable) I see no reason for censorship.

Anonymous said...

This whole Nigerian thread is stupid, shame on both of you, its gone on and on and on, and yet goes no where, Meanwhile in hte realworld, things are happening which actually merits attention. Here is an on today's craigslist. No over time. You know who made that allowed? George Bush the second, he changed the labor law so that lawyers can't get overtime. Why don't you cry about that instead of this non-sense about Nigerians. Lets get pissed off about something real for a change please. Also notice that the ad says non-negotiable. Anyone like that?
Or how about that it wants at least 6 months experience but that its such a "junior position" the rate will "reflect that"
Also notice that it is a "Potential" position that might start the 28th or it might not.

JuriStaff has a potential project beginning next week for junior level attorneys with 6months-1 year of document review experience.

Location: NYC.
Duration: 1.5-2 months.
Hours: 10 hour days, 6 days a week. 8AM-7PM, Monday through Saturday Non negotiable.
State Bar: Active NY bar admission required
Start: September 28 (possibly earlier)
Pay: *Do to the junior level of this position, pay rates will reflect that. Firm does not pay time and a half for OT.

Interested candidates should send their resume to Leigh Novack at Reference #LNjnrDRCL

Anonymous said...

11:40 - Why do you think they are allowed to get away with that?

Could it be caused by a massive supply/demand imbalance caused by the NY bar and ABA that allows foreigners, many of whom never had to attend an expensive US law school and therefore aren't burdened by massive debt and can work for much cheaper rates, to flood the market?

I shouldn't say this, as I will be branded a racist and be subject to public censor by the liberal morality monitor. Let's all go back to blaming Bush.

Anonymous said...

And one other thing: Bush has been out of office for nearly nine months already. If you don't like the law, why don't you call up the liberal slave ship master Teddy Sorenson over at Paul Weiss, and ask him to call up Obama, or better yet, Paterson, who is Eliot "can't keep it in my pants" Spitzer's replacement, and ask them to change the law since they care so much about working, middle class Americans?

Anonymous said...

"The supply of lawyers far exceeds the demand and it did before the collapse of the economy."

I seem to remember this thread a few years ago and the only gripes were about lack of cars and overtime pay. This is the worst recession in 25 years. It affects the number of open positions for lawyers.

Temporarily Yours said...

I agree with 11:36. Censorship will not help. Even though there is occasional hurtful racism on this site, I would rather know it than turn a blind eye. I like this site because it is raw candour - it's also the funniest, silliest, most real and believe it or not quite intelligent - much more so than many other law sites - which are dull, boring, cleansed, bland and OH SO POMPOUS!!! Many seem full of idiot law students spewing some bullshit version of what they think it means to be a lawyer - with no real experience in the world and the types of UGLY people you are going to have to deal with!!

This site provides real portraits of the people we have to deal with - the Big Mammas and Valvinas and agency goons. I don't much care for the racist crap - as far as I am concerned if you are a decent human being it doesn't matter what race you are - and if you are not a decent person, then you deserved to be abused, again, without considering race.

Anonymous said...

I just got off the phone with G-H-E-T-T-O Staff. They threatened me in no uncertain terms that things would get "messy" if I agreed to take the project and eventually had to leave. Like if I am offered market rate, I am going to stay at a place paying 23 straight with no OT? It sounded like if I had to leave early they were going to send one of their goons to my house to break my legs.

I declined. I'd rather be unemployed than get trapped in their web of desperation.

Anonymous said...

I'd say take it and then jump ship when something better comes along. After all, money is money.

Anonymous said...

Not likely.

I got canned by an unethical shitlaw partner last year, and to avoid paying unemployment, he held up my claim. I eventually prevailed on the claim, but it got held up in the system for weeks, and I almost got evicted from my apartment. I aged about ten years due to all the stress that caused me.

Not going to risk my claim again due to some agency goon who threatened me even before the job started.

Anonymous said...

11:56 you are an idiot, the FACT is Bush DID change the overtime law, what the fuck does that have to do with Paul Wiess and "liberals" ? Fucking nothing, that's what. Being screwed is being screwed, stop trying to make it about something else.

Anonymous said...

1:16 I agree. I have worked with many agencies and sometimes it's better not to take a project. Money is money but sometimes the trouble is not worth it - especially if you are working towards a bigger goal and still have some benefits. I am in a similar situation where I am focusing on building up my biz and using this time to network so that by the time the benefits run out I have something solid to fall back on and not some cheap agency gals and their cheap projects. dealing with them and their petty bullshit, the crappy project and the weirdos and ghettos on the work site have just been taking away from my focus and serious thought. Naturally if I was desperate I would suck it up - but even though I currently subsist on a meagre diet and torn underwear I am trying desperately to build something so I can be 100% free of these petty hookers. Amen!!

Anonymous said...

The agency has better things to do than hold up your claim. They for one don't want to get sued.

Emily said...

Threats are the most effective means.

I view my contract attorneys as being dumb, overweight dogs. Some are very friendly, but clearly aren't up to par in their cognitive skills. It's best to take out the stick sometimes.

Anonymous said...

hey check this out..if we sterilize the poor they won't be able to reproduce..eliminating poverty! we can also burn down the projects/ghettos while we're at it..such ugly architecture..goin to my part time sales clerk job at Daffys...thank god i dont have all the nasty debt from a 3rd tier school..hello Hofstra?

Anonymous said...

Shut up you fucking dog Emily - you look like a frozen corpse - been in Cryonics???

Oh sorry you are probably just forzen from not getting laid by all the dudes you wanted -- sorry!!!

Emily said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Emily said...

2:45 - You little bitch. If I EVER find out who you are, your name will spread around this town so fast that the only place you will ever find work for the next 10 years will be in Sullivan's basement! I mean it.

Anonymous said...

me - displaced former BIGLAW goon relegated to doc review/temp assignments. FWIW, latest gig includes all ex-BIGLAW guys, including a former counsel at Shearman. This is not a joke. God help us all.

Anonymous said...

Suck my dick, Emily.

Who is this boring, childish chick??? And what happened to Lifer, Beer Guzzler and Father Eamon - at least they were funny.

Anonymous said...


Emily said...

When firm employees look into these rooms packed to the rafters with coders, what do we think: NIGGERS. When some lowly temp asks us to clarify whether a particular document is relevant, what do we think: NIGGERS. When some lower level scum complain about us or our recruiters on this blog, what do we think: NIGGERS. When a former Shearman counsel whines on here, what do we think: NIGGER.

Anonymous said...

This chick is not only ugly, she is stupid too. Trying to incite - 'cause she can't get off. Maybe if you jacked off instead of getting on the Internet all the time - you might feel better. Good luck, honey.

Anonymous said...

I hear the term "racism" an awful lot around here. Can someone please provide us with a definition of this term?

Anonymous said...

This blog is getting interesting again. The made up personalities are funny.

Better coder was a hoot. So was the fake yaley girl. Now there's a very white looking racist chick. What's next? Maybe someone pretending to be a member of the Nigerian Doc. Review mafia?

Someone has a sense of humor, or they've been in the S&C basement too long and are having psychotic delusions.

Emily said...

I'm real, bitch.

When some uppity Nigger thinks they deserve my job simply because they toil away in the document review bowels of the firm irks me. Get on law review and be as fabulous as me, bitch.

Anonymous said...

10:15 It's called Unemployment.

Anonymous said...

Yo ho, you is probably a smelly toothless CRACKER. When I see a picture of a pale anemic looking bleached blonde chick, I think CRACKER. When I see a toothless old hill billy I see CRACKER. When I smell a dirty ass I SEE CRACKER.

How is your trailer today? Last I heard the ceiling had collapsed and your uncle who fucked you when you were three had run off with your mother.

Anonymous said...

Law review??? Ha, ha, ha, ha ....the only thing you can review is In Touch magazine - maybe not even that.

Ivy Temp said...

Get lost bitch. You are not fabulous. 10:27 is right - you look like trailer trash.

I can tell trash from miles away -and you, my dear, are 100% certifiable cracker. Toddle doo .... off with your silly ass....BTW, what are those gigantic black satellites you are wearing in your ears...and your hair color needs some refinement. I can send you the name of my stylist at John Barret at Bergdorf if you would like. Ciao Ugly...

Emily said...

Yale, my ass. Your degree is as fake as your skinny ass photo.

Face the facts, honey. Skinny Yale models aren't toiling away in the biglaw basements.

In all probability, you are nothing more than an obese nigger. The legal community wants nothing more than spit on your type.

Ivy Temp said...

Please bitch you are not worth my time. Yes, I agree with you, I may be obese, I did add on two pounds on my previous 105lbs due to the recssion. Anyway, I am not interested in arguing with tawdry types like you - when Dad was alive we used to have you gals waitress at our galas and then later he would bang some of the cheap ones [like you]. Anyway, my boyfriend just came in -- and he's hot. I have things to do - enjoy the Internet. Ta dahling....

Anonymous said...

"I have worked with many agencies and sometimes it's better not to take a project."

True, unfortunately always some Nigerians who will take anything and bring in 100 of their friends (all Nigerians of course, never do anything for an American.)

"I'm hurt by the Nigerian comments"

Boo hoo hoo.
But they put one of your neighbors out of a job.

Emily said...

I say bring in more Nigerians.

You uppity Americans need to get a retaste of the slaveship.

I always get a kick out of when Kunta Kinte comes to my office begging for work during the economic downturn.

Anonymous said...

Emily needs a nice Nigerian guy to keep her satisfied, it is obviously what she wants in a big way, she just isn't getting what she needs.

Anonymous said...

12:16 PM:

Even before the recession there were far more law grads than jobs. Otherwise this site would not exist. Lawyers would not be choosing doc review for a career path if enough jobs were availabe that paid a high enough wage to live on.

7:57 If you still want a career as a lawyer you should get together with your unemployed big law friends and pressure the ABA and governemnt to limit the number of law students to a number commensurate with demand.

Anonymous said...

Emily needs a big one in her ass - hopefully that will loosen some of the toxic crap in there....poor thing

Anonymous said...

"I hear the term "racism" an awful lot around here. Can someone please provide us with a definition of this term?"

Racism is whatever the accuser says it is.
They can mind read any comment you make (if they happen to disagree with it) into racism.
You oppose giving U.S. jobs to foreigners (Nigerians) and they say you are racist.

Unfortunately contrary to what someone said which is that people are afraid to be called racist ther are plenty of others who know what a scam the race card is and couldn't care less.

I consider it a compliment if it means I am helping Americans get jobs including and especially American blacks.

Anonymous said...

Marie Osmond was on TV today saying that she was forced to lose weight before to 93 pounds and she said this is why many skinny girls are mean.

Parrot-nose Heather B.?

Anonymous said...

E-mail the author of the following article with your student loan horror story:

Anonymous said...

The Law School House of Cards

Everyone is right about the over supply of lawyers.
Though a problem for 30 years it only gets worse.

Nothing can be done. Because law school is for people who were liberal arts majors (99%). They can't do anything else. They will invest anything into school for prestige.

Because they want to impress people, especially their family and community, they say how great being a lawyer is.
The vicious cycle continues.

Anonymous said...

Do you mean Heather Bluemel Pfizer Paralegal.
She went to Boston University management school.

Anonymous said...

The only thing I have ever seen ole Parrot-Nose eat is soup. That's probably why she wants to butcher hapless temps.

Anonymous said...

Skinny girls are mean! I was a very skinny girl - eating just a salad and soup and running like crazy. I was super thin and my skin glowed-but inside I felt really nasty. Acid was always churning in my stomach. I wanted to kill many people and hated everyone - but no one could tell 'cause I looked so goddamn purty. Now I have put on some pounds - don't look all that bad - and feel much better and am generally nicer towards people especially after I have eaten. It's a totally different outlook.

Anonymous said...

This is what Marie Osmond said. She said the starlets become bitchy because they are starving all the time.
Is Heather a looker? She eats like a bird.
Did she seem to you to be on the verge of a permanent nervous breakdown?

Anonymous said...

What a laugh!

Read this.
Nigeria prohibits foreigners from practicing law in their country (while calling Americans "racists").

I guess this is OK because it is nationality not race-based.

Stupid New York Bar never asks for reciprocity.
The New York Bar: an organizationing fighting for you (not).

The Legal System:
The Nigerian legal system is based on English common law modified by Nigerian rulings, the Constitution, customary law, Islamic (Shari'a) law and legislative enactments.

The Legal Profession:
There are approximately 70,000 lawyers practising in Nigeria and a population of around 135,000,000. As a fused profession, a legal practitioner is enrolled in Nigeria both as a Solicitor and Advocate.

Regulation of legal profession:
The Nigerian Bar Association is the professional association for lawyers. Lawyers are automatically admitted to the NBA following satisfaction of the requirements of the members of the Body of Benchers and proficiency in the Bar Final Examination.

The NBA plays a major role in the regulation and discipline of the legal profession by upholding the Rules of Professional Conduct for Legal Practitioners, guided by the Legal Practitioners Act. Where a lawyer is in breach of the Rules of Professional Conduct a petition is sent to the NBA Disciplinary Unit. If there is a legitimate case to be answered, the case is referred to the Body of Benchers Disciplinary Committee who will recommend action to be taken. All appeals from there go to the Supreme Court.

Regulatory compliance:
Foreign lawyers are not entitled to practice law under home or other title unless they have also been called to the Nigerian Bar.

Foreign qualified lawyers wishing to requalify in Nigeria must do a one year conversion course at the Nigeria Law School.

The school admits those holding a law degree from an approved university or persons who passed the Legal Practise Course in England & Wales. Students who are admitted into the school with degrees obtained outside Nigeria are required to take and pass the following subjects in the Bar Part 1 examination:
(a) Nigerian Legal system;
(b) Nigerian Land Law;
(c) Nigerian Criminal Law; and
(d) Nigerian Constitutional Law.

Part 1 of the Bar course is designed to introduce foreign-trained students to the general principles of Nigerian Law. Holders of law degrees from Nigerian universities are exempt from the Bar Part 1 course. Also exempt from the Bar Part 1 are graduates from other common law jurisdictions who have taught law for a minimum of five years in a Nigerian Faculty of Law, and graduates from non-common law countries that have so taught for not less than 10 years. Any candidate seeking admission into the school must show evidence of having passed the following core subjects:
(a) The Law of Contract;
(b) Constitutional Law;
(c) Commercial Law;
(d) Criminal Law;
(e) Equity and Trust;
(f) Evidence;
(g) Land Law; and
(h) Law of Torts.

The theoretical aspects of the above courses are not taught in the school, which focuses on the practical aspects of the professional work of a lawyer. The offered subjects in which students are examined in the Bar Part 2 examination are:
(a) Civil Procedure;
(b) Criminal Procedure;
(c) Legal Drafting and Conveyancing;
(d) Commercial Law;
(e) Law and Practice of Evidence;
(f) General Paper, comprising Legal Practitioners' Accounts, Income Tax Law, Office Management and Professional Ethics.

Persons who have completed the professional training offered by the Nigerian law school are entitled by Section 4 of the Legal Practitioners Act to be formally called to the Nigerian bar and are issued a certificate authorising them to practice law in Nigeria.

WTO Position:
Nigeria became a member of the WTO in 1995. Nigeria has not made any commitments to liberalise the legal services sector under the General Agreement on Trade in Services (GATS).

Anonymous said...

Parrot-Nose a looker??? Ha, ha, ha -- yeah if you have a fetish for hooked parrot-beaks and don't mind it gashing into your face!! There was something very weird and manic about her - it was this pent-up intensity, like she hadn't been laid in a while. She seemed possessed, frenzied, tense, and in the throes of deep psychosis. She would often speak for hours without breathing, and then she would hyperventilate. Frankly, I felt breathless and scared in her company. Strange cat, or parrot, I should say.

Anonymous said...

"I always get a kick out of when Kunta Kinte comes to my office begging for work during the economic downturn"

Kunta Kinte gets a huge kick out of seeing you as well. I act nice -but I let out huge yelps of laughter with friends over beers - describing to them your tight little constipated face as though a mean little turd were stuck halfway in your ass and just not coming out. You always look so uncomfortable. What's wrong baby? Do you need something to unplug??


Anonymous said...

Racism is acting on prejudice. Prejudice is calling people racist names. I have nothing against prejudice. An example of racism would be not hiring someone solely because they are black, or indian (although with respect to the latter, i'd understand). Calling people names is not racist, despite media outcries to the contrary.

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