"Tom,
Looks like SkaTTTen's attempt at paying an above market bonus last year to a few overly compensated 25 year old baby lawyers was a desperate attemp to hide the fact that they are obviously a firm on the decline. Today, we hear of yet another major partner fleeing the firm. This comes on the heels of the dissolution of the entire staff attorney program. Working as a contract attorney in that dump is just as perilous. For sure, Clutch is still paying an above market rate of $40 + an hour, but on the other side of the building, Kelly is filling with the rafters with a bunch of new recruits who will be earning less than $35 an hour. No doubt the new group is being brought in to replace the old guard."
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185 comments:
They are also setting up a secret Mumbai location where they will be able to lower the rate to nine dollars an hour.
Definition of "overly compensated": lazy people who went to bad law schools and have no ambition or job prospects getting paid $40+ an hour to do what a good computer program or a well-trained monkey could do.
As bad as you think temping is (and I've done it; it's no picnic), it's only going to get worse as the (real) law market stays bad. And then when the market gets better in a few years, all the firms will already have moved your jobs to India, where better-qualified people do the same job for much less.
This blog needs to start being about putting out ideas as to what temps can do then, because you people need an exit strategy, stat.
People don't need an "exit" strategy, they need to organize. The baby boomers have completely fucked over this country and if something isn't done soon there will be no turning back.
what does TTT mean? Tom the Temp?
third tier toilet.
Americans are not going to "organize." Americans spent the last 40 years (2 generations now) following laissez faire capitalism. We do not even know the difference anymore because most people assume that the capitalism practiced in America is the only way that capitalism can exist. Even these stories here are realy at based no quesitoning he basic assumptions of laissez faire capitalism.
"Even these stories here are realy at based no quesitoning he basic assumptions of laissez faire capitalism."
should read:
"Even these stories on this blog are based the assumptions of laissez faire capitalism."
"it's only going to get worse as the (real) law market stays bad"
The real market is getting better every day.
"Lazy people who went to bad law schools and have no ambition or job prospects getting paid $40+ an hour."
I don't know if I'd call people who want to work 60 hours a week, "lazy." Slightly deluded and possible too greedy to get a real gig and get some experience, yes, but "lazy." No. I think hard working dysfunctional worker might be a better term.
...and they cant get there shit together so the new temps can work. 2 days in a row sittin home, waitin for a late night email, after a monday start day
3:05 - I am also on that project. Have to wake up now every morning before dawn to check the email/phone to see if we have to go in that day. I feel like a substitute teacher. I am not complaining, but I could have been a subsitute teacher without the 100 grand in law school debt.
Personally, I think this entire week will be shot. The other day things appeared to be totally disorganized, and the lady at the agency is leaving tomorrow for vacation.
It is less than ideal, but I am sure they will eventually get their act together. I just thank my lucky stars every minute that I am not at Sullivan. I don't think I could take another minute of having to deal with those moronic legal analysts.
2:39 pm is right ... 60 hours a week is not lazy..
the real law market will pick up ? that is an interesting topic.. if it picks up, the law market only returns to slightly at garbage ??
Hey, 3:48...do tell us all about those S&C legal analysts!
And who's Anita?
Has anyone heard of anything staffed recently. I get calls and then hear nothing back. When I call the recruiters I get......voice mail. I know they are at the office.
Don't call them. It is rude to call someone unannounced. Shoot an email over saying you are available at the beginning of the week.
They called me first and never got back to me. The e-mails don't get returned either.
S & C sound awful. I enjoy the staff attorney gossip.
S&C isn't such a bad place.
"And then when the market gets better in a few years, all the firms will already have moved your jobs to India, where better-qualified people do the same job for much less"
utterly retarded, for non-jd holding wankers are more qualified. Juat another lie by the THIEVING LPO indsutry.
Make that 3 days after a Monday start date. No work tomorrow.
The SKAD is in big trouble. We know that becoz they are giving associates the heave-ho. Sure they will ever hire them back. They'll be paying temps the "new rate" of $15 soon.
9:45
This is getting stupid.
At least Skeeter doesn't work at SkaTTTen... he'd never stoop that low!
Be nice to Alex you jealous assholes. He is hot and very sexy. The ONLY hot analyst at S&C!!!!
9:50
Looks like you've been spending too long in the basement. You're starting to make comparisons based on the other degenerates found in the S&C dungeon.
9:50
I think Cunty Anorexia, his ugly, skanky and red faced jump off from 38 off is posting!
Hudson is staffing a 6 month Pharma project in midtown. NO admitted attorneys need apply.
Check this one out... hot off the presses:
Hudson Legal is currently staffing the following project:
Start date: Wednesday May 27, 2009
Location: Downtown, Manhattan
Rate: $27/hr + OT
Duration: Minimum 6 month commitment
Requirements: Candidates that possess a JD, but not admitted in any US jurisdiction
Licensed attorneys will not be considered for this position.
If interested, please email your most current resume to LEGALJOBS@HUDSON.COM immediately.
In the Subject Line, please reference PHARMA REVIEW.
It's over, Johnny.
Tower? Hudson?
Who does the marketing for these outfits?
If I organized an agency, I would call it Hooters Coding. Bar admission wouldn't be required, but all of the reviewers would be required to have fake breasts. Can you imagine how much biglaw business such an outfit would generate?
The Hudson ad doesn't even say anything about having to have pharma experience or a science background.
Actually, the $27/hour rate is understandable, as they're not asking for barred attorneys. I'm sure there's a reason for that.
I didn't see that Hudson ad at craigslist. Where is it?
It's right above the ad from the Long Island shitlaw blowhard partner who is trying to justify a 32K a year salary.
Oy. Sorry if I'm being dense. I looked at craigslist, NYC, May 21. The ad you're referring to is Central Nassau. There are three ads above that, but none is a Hudson doc review ad.
I'm sorry. You are right. It's not on craigslist. It was on the contract attorney email list. Hudson probably figured that they could get so many candidates for this position that it wasn't worth paying the $20 craigslist submittal fee.
Thank you.
What is the contract attorney email list?
It's a yahoo email listserv. Search yahoo groups for contract attorney.
And thanks again.
Search the internet for Posse list and subscribe. Also get on the hudson list serve.
Okay. I did indeed search yahoo groups for "contact attorneys" and came up with an enormous list. From what I could tell, all the groups I came to (before I quit) that seemed to pertain to DC contract attorneys have been inactive.
I already am a member at the posse list. But are there any of these groups that it would be helpful to join for DC?
And how do I find (get on) the Hudson listserv? If you've already interviewed with Hudson, does that mean you're on the Hudson listserv? Maybe I should be asking, what is the Hudson listserv?
Thank you very very much.
Can anybody give us the skinny on the Labaton project?
Yes, didn't it start yesterday? I am expecting live reports.
S&C is bad. As a matter of cact its fucking horrible.
Havent you seen the several hundred comments posted in tom's recent topics compaining about how the place and the people are shit?
If you like being around staff attorney idiots who went to 4th tier schools but thik they are gods, who are completley incompetent about the case materials, who are hypocritical, egotistical, lazy, ghetto and/or just plain fucking weird then go to S&C.
About 2 weeks ago it might have been worth it to observe the comedy of these washed up souls. But now that theyre paying below market rate, why bother?
2:49
This shit has been said over and over an over on this blog for years, and the past few days. I'm not saying its not true, cause a lot of it is. But...why not give it a rest?
Hudson is running a similar Pharma ad in DC, but not restricted to "JDs only", and the rate is $35p/hr. They don't even have the project yet. There are something like 5 agencies in the bidding war.
is the Hudson job for AZ again?
Hudson is trying to undercut the DC market by bottom feeding in the NYC market. They will eventually land the project and pay a pitiful wage.
The Hudson DC pharmaceutical ad is a May 4th posting at monster. It is indeed pharma and 6 months, but they want both French and English, and, as you say, the pay is higher and they want licensed JDs. So do you really think it's the same project as NY Hudson? And would the two Hudsons be bidding against each other?
Would the person to whom I was speaking about craigslist, Hudson listserv, etc. (or anyone else, for that matter) please answer my questions at 2:13 PM?
Thank you.
There is definitely a major uptick in doc reviews.
HIREcounsel also has a May 13th posting at monster for a pharma review, but 2-3 months and $35/hr. And I think this is just a repeat of an April 22nd posting.
So are the Hudson DC, Hudson NY, and HIREcounsel DC ads all just competition for the same project?
Still like an answer to my questions at 2:13 PM.
I'll be glad when (if) the uptick reaches DC applicants who aren't already agency regulars.
I do not think these are all the same projects. There is some overlap, but some are for phrama, some for bankruptcy , etc. So I can not see how they are the same projects.
the fact there seems to be an uptick does not mean you are going to get an assignment if you are new to this. it just means that there is an uptick of projects. it also means that eventually if the regulars are employed they may look for other people too.
5:36 PM
That makes sense, though I don't like hearing it.
Aand I'd still like an answer from someone as to my questions at 2:13 PM. I will return the favor when I can.
If they don't need new people, why do they resume farm at craigslist, monster, and careerbuilder? Couldn't they just go back to their stable of regulars?
Why is everyone here excited about upticks for agencies you said we should "stay away from"?
Can someone tell me what the deal is about that?
Continuing from 6:00 PM, also I would think that, even in a bad economy, the agencies lose regulars to permanent jobs, so have to replace them. And if the job market is getting better, shouldn't that process accelerate?
Wishful thinking is better than no thinking at all.
Shouldn't we stay away from these agencies? Why does it matter if work is picking up?
Aren't these places sweatshops?
if someoen didn't answer you the first time it's because they are not interested in answering you.
6:08 and 6:22 PM
Yes, yes, we get your point. But some of us here realize that rates and hours are a function of supply and demand, so we haven't wasted our breath complaining about them. Or about the law of gravity.
6:33 pm
Or because my questions got lost in the subsequent shuffle. Or because the answerer went away, and if he/she comes back, might have forgotten about them. Or someone new might chip in. You have a point, but as a matter of cost/benefit, why not repeat the queries?
to each his own. Just pointing it out that you are trying to be reasonable amongst a den of crazy.
But not everyone here is crazy. You're not crazy. The person who originally supplied the information about yahoo groups and the Hudson listserv isn't crazy. I ignore the crazies (except for the antisemite; if I could get hold of him I'd hurt him, but he enjoys having gotten my goat, so I guess he won and I lost, hurray for him) and just exchange information with the sane, trying to help and get help.
So still looking for answers to my questions at 2:13 PM (i.e., about DC groiups to join, and the Hudson listserv), if anyone would be so kind.
well, a) yes I am crazy and b) I do not know anything about DC- I do not live there.
C'est l'absurde!
Start Date: June 8th
Expected Duration: 1 month plus
Hours: 40-50/week with time-and-one-half for OT
Location: Manhattan
Rate: $28-$30/hour depending on experience and Bar admission
Requirements: Fluency in French. Nonadmitted OK. Any document review experience is helpful.
5:35
There were at least 3-4 different companies bidding on the same DC pharma project. If you had called them and spoken with them as I did, you could figure that much out.
Why anyone would actively seek out work in a sweatshop with crazies makes no sense.
So we got to kiss ass at 3 to 4 agencies to hedge our bets?
This is still better than being in the dungeons of S&C with the loathesome prison guards.
844
at least they have money as their excuse. what's yours?
Then just come out and say you are willing to tolerate insane people as your "bosses" and sweatshops as the place you call "work" for money. All this naming "places and agencies to avoid" is insincere crap.
You aren't avoiding anything, but instead DYING to get in.
Jesus Christ on a Fucking Crutch 2:13; here already:
http://jobsearch.us.hudson.com/Legal-jobs.aspx
enjoy the sweatshop, at least you will be able to buy food. FML.
I think the reason for the resume collection is based on competition among agencies. For example, if they can find some poor schmuck who went to Harvard law in the sea of resumes, they can submit that resume when they bid for a project, and believe it or not, prestige is even important in document review (these days). So if agency X has a more prestigious resume pool than Y, the firm might go with X.
Labaton is fine, got about 100 people on the Countrywide side and around 15 on the Broadcom side. No internet, no perks, but they keep off your back so far. Very laid back--probably gonna ramp up again in a week or so.
9:44 PM
A gracious and prompt response. Thank you.
But if I had known that the Hudson listserv is just the jobs listing at the Hudson Website, even I could have found it.
And I'm not even sure that you're right, and that it is, because it doesn't list any pharma review, or any other doc review, in the DC area.
But seriously - I'm not being facetious - thanks.
did I hear that Hudson missed payroll a few weeks ago? what happened?
what are the rate and hours on the Labaton right now?
Anonymous said...
9:50
I think Cunty Anorexia, his ugly, skanky and red faced jump off from 38 off is posting!
11:09 AM
_____________
I am really quite flattered that my penchant for clever but insulting, demeaning nicknames is catching on. First Clovester, and now this. I must say Cunty is not my best, but it does sort of remind me of her real name. It really was good to see that she lost her job. As I stated before, I would also regard it as good news if I learned she died some horrible death.
As for Wrinkled Shirts being sexy, yes women just love some underweight weaklings who dress like a slob. What a joke.
I hope other nicknames will gain favor, especialy Wrinkled Shirt Rudey.
I do want to say one other thing. A couple of nicknames have expressed racial animus, notably Blackie Black Dawn. Allow me to explain. Blackie Black Dawn epitomizes everything undesirable about a certain segment of her people. She is, in my opinion, meanspirted, incredibly racist (she blasted beat it from her office when Jacko was acquitted out of some sort of racial affinity, nevermind that he is a black boy who, inexpliably, grew up to be a white woman), and speaks in Ebonics. And this just begins to scratch the surface. Thus this racially charged insult. Another epithet comes to mind when I think of her and others like her.
I DO want to say that a former supervisor comes from a similar background. I have a tremendous amount of respect for this man. He and his former colleague were stand up guys, and to this day I am appreciative for what they did for me to keep me there as long I stayed. I further want to expressly disclaim any such notion that the racially charged animus expressed towards others--who are rightly disliked-- must never be interpreted as disrespect for this gentleman or others like him who actually command my respect, and for whom I wish nothing but the very best in life. Indeed, I still consider them friends even though I have not heard from either of them in sometime.
Oh yeah, you're the Oscar Wilde of temp town. And your character sketches surpass anything Dickens ever did. Since we're all complete idiots, we still haven't figured out that the congratulatory posts are yours.
But your opinions and analyses are of great concern to everyone here.
11:31 Your speculation as to who writes what, or really anything anyone else thinks, is of no concern to me. I do not care what others think generally, and I certainly do not care what anonymous posters on some board think. Although perhaps the absurdity of your post is amusing.
937
Why do you care? As crazy as people here are- it's more interesting to watch crazy people exam the crazy people. Who is more insane? You are or them?
Of course you don't care what others think. That's why you post and repost and rerepost the same obscene drivel, interposed with posts telling you how wonderful you are.
Nothing wrong with you.
You're certainly not a malignant narcissist.
So did Labaton finally start?
11:54
No I write as I do to express myself, other people be damned. As for the notion that I am somehow mimicking different alter egos to congratulate myself, well that is a complement, for it would require true literary genius to feign a completely different writing style like this:
Shout out to 7:12!! You are one hilarious MF!! Or as Tracy Morgan would say HIL-aa-Rious.
You should set up your own site and put together a collection of your writings and descriptions. I have not had the privilege of reading all of your works on this site as I am a newcomer.
Oh, and to close, damn you all, may you burn in hell, and so on and so forth.
Why do those big men follow Alex around like he is Top Cat. Why do they insist on coming across to others in the C-level like they have no self respect, no self esteem, no weight control, and probably no lovin' in their lives. These guys have to be in their
40s. I feel realy bad for them.
Which one is Big Mama? I thought it was beverly, but after these newer posts, I think there is a new one. S&C?
Not nice, damning all those admirers.
But you're right. Affecting two such disparate styles suggests a veritable Shakespeare, or at least Twain.
No nutball, you.
Of course, I really have not affected different alter ego. But hey, people can believe what they want.
I was not admiring friends and well-wishers, but people like 11:54, and other cretin who offend me. See, I tend to be very nice to people I like, but a bit of a vindictive meaney to those I do not.
6:53 should read "I was not damning admiring friends. . ..
2:49 PM
S&C wasn't worth it two weeks ago.
Now might be a good time for you permatemp types to accept a lower salary and get a job that provides experience. Temping has never been worse and probably won't improve for another 6 months. Do a good job in that period of time, you'll get a raise and bye bye temping foreever.
Do you relly want to wind up like those guys in their 40s and 50s kissing up to the degernerates in the S&C basement? Fuck no.
7:10
I think you can register at the website. The reason no one else tells you is that they're afrid you'll get the job and they won't.
If you're barred you may consider 11:16s post. Now is not the time to be doing anything associated w/ BIGLAW.
Yo 11:13. Don't listen to these nuts. We know you are just venting -- and it's funny. I've worked with some of these assholes and trust me you are being kind. In any case, you do liven things up -- I really think you should write a book or make a movie like Office Space on these morons!! You need a nom de guerre so your posts can be more easily identified by your fans!!
11:42 AM
Much thanks. I'm only looking for doc review. I went to the Hudson website and found the link to the Hudson network. Is that what I should have been looking for? Is that the Hudson listserv? I'm asking both questions because I don't know if they are the same question, or different.
I really do try to repay the courtesy of you and others by passing on what I know.
Jeez. Even poor Chris Sizemore only had three personalities.
Y'all need to git wit' Skeeter and Snuffy over at Cravvie for some REAL projects!!!
They'll put y'all's asses to work!!
1:53, go to the link posted by 9:44 - right hand side of page has a place to enter email address, then next page has location and keyword spots to refine emails you get (I suggest keywords: review, jd, contract, etc. )
Have fun.
3:17 PM
Some of you people are damn nice.
I entered "review, jd, contract, and document" as the keywords, and "Washington, D.C." as the location. I imagine that will cover the DC metro area, but I guess I can call Hudson to check.
Now promise you won't give anyone else this info, because I don't want someone else getting a project that would have gone to me.
Mr. Iron Bathtub will be exposed. And he is a crap writer. So self-satisfied despite his station in life. But karma is about to bite him in the ass.
THE MASTER IS COMING! WHEN HE ARRIVES ONLY THE LOYAL WILL REMAIN WITHIN HIS PROTECTION. BOW NOW TO THE MASTER AND BEG HIS ACCEPTANCE.
I WILL BREAK YOU WITH MY BOTTLE AND FIRM BROWN.
MASTER HAS SPOKEN, so shall he do
I WILL BREAK YOU WITH MY BOTTLE AND FIRM BROWN.
MASTER HAS SPOKEN, so shall he do
THE MASTER WILL TAKE YOUR WOMEN WHILE YOU SLEEP
Mr. Iron Bathtub will be exposed. And he is a crap writer. So self-satisfied despite his station in life. But karma is about to bite him in the ass.
4:57 PM
________________
Who the hell is Mr. Iron Bathtub?
The Iron Bathtub is the Nazi who's been posting anti-semitic shit here.
Hey Ese, is there coding in the Barrio???
www.homies.tv
I AM THE TRUE MASTER.
I ORDER TEMPS AROUND IN THE BASEMENT OF S&C. I GIVE THEM NO REAL INSTRUCTIONS AND THEN FIRE THEM WHEN THEY SCREW UP. I SUCK UP TO ASSOCIATES SO THAT THEY GRANT ME MY POWER.
I AM A LITIGATION ANALYSIS.
but secretly I fear the day when I am removed from my mountain of power in the first ring of S&C hell. I have no real skills, a bad rep in the industry, and many many lawyers hate me. Plus, I'm pretty stupid -- that's why I had to temp when everyone else got hired.
Previous authoritative sounding pronouncements by posselist et al. to the contrary, I don't know of any evidence that NY and DC doc reviews ever switched to India. From the job boards, I don't see that other US regions have been draining the NY and DC markets. I think that the economy just killed doc review, the way it killed the firms.
I think the firms still want/need to have the doc reviewers physically close, to manage the projects effectively. The associates running one project told me that this is their opinion.
I'm guessing that if there's an uptick in doc review, it's going to the agency regulars; there's not enough to spill over to us rookies. With the resume farming going on, the agencies apparently are trying to have a supply that they know is immediately available, in case demand picks up. From my discussions with the agencies, there seems to be a sense that demand in fact is picking up - or maybe that is my wishful thinking.
The question is when (if) demand will pick up enough to reach us.
Any informed (or at least sane) opinion, especially from recruiters, is welcomed. I know it doesn't do any good, but's better than some of that nonsense that's posted.
I think the outsourcing thing is overhyped, but I definitely feel like the law school/big law/document review bubble has burst. I feel like the whole process is on its way to becoming more streamlined. Technology will play a greater role and there won't be a need for legions of associates and contract attorneys to churn mountains of unnecessary paper. Law firms are going to revert back to the way they were thirty years ago. There will be a greater chance for partnership, but the core of associates doing the work will be greatly reduced.
9:12
I agree with you except for one minor point. The agencies will run out of regulars sooner than you think. If say agency X has to staff a 70 person project, they won't have enough regulars to do it and will do their best to staff it with anybody with a decent resume. That's why they're always trying to collect resumes. They have a limited time to staff the project or somebody else will. This results in them losing money.
So my advice is send a resume to every posting (it doesn't cost anything), and to register with every agency.
I also think demand is slowly picking up. There are more postings and more people complaining about crummy work conditions (true) instead of the absolute lack of work.
Fair enough, 9:27 PM. But I wonder about the extent to which even ever-improving software can refine the process. Searching by magic words will never be enough; you still need human analysis to recognize concepts - even what passes for human analysis as employed by some of the posters here.
How come everyone here knows the answers and future of the business of the practice of law, but the partners at the best big firms are struggling to find a way to remain profitable?
Does working in a basement and begging agencies for shit work make one better at business and telling the future?
9:35 PM
I hope you're right. I respond to every posting; I haven't applied to every agency, but I've interviewed and registered with ten. Do you really think that signing up with more will do any good?
As for crummy working conditions, who cares? Supply/demand is a law of the real world, like f=ma. You accept the hourly rate, so give them the work they're paying for. I now this sounds like shameless sycophancy, but I'm anonymous, so no one will know what a snivelling tool I am.
That's just it; we don't claim to know the answers and the future, we're just bouncing speculation off each other, and we don't claim to be doing otherwise.
I've received valuable help here, and i was able to help someone else by directing him to a translation job that was going begging because the agency didn't have enough qualified people to fill it.
Giving others a boost when you can is one of the great pleasures in life.
Again, being anonymous, I don't have to endure the shame of others identifying me for the suckup I am.
9:27
Law firms are looking for ways to justify billing their clients. They don't want things done efficiently.
They're haven't and won't give the temps anything of value to do. The doc. review work is busy work the firm has thought up to justify billing. Do you relly think they're going to hire a bunch of attorneys who couldn't get a regular job to do any work of importance. The permatemps generally have a screw loose, and the new temps aren't experienced. Stop deluding yourself. The problem is not the technology or outsorcing. The problem is the corporations have reduced their litigation budgets.
9:45
Yes I think registering with ALL the agencies is a good idea, especially if you have nothing better to do. 1/2 a day on any temp job will pay for the subway fares you've had to pay.
Regarding the crummy work conditions, at present if you've worked as a professional, you're relly going to need (not want) the money to put up with it.
Should we really be registering with ALL the agenies? What about the one Tom lists that engage in questionable business practices? Shouldn't we avoid those?
10:09
you should register with any that will let you register with them right now.
none of the agencies are always bad and none are always good.
There is an uptick but it is going to the regulars, or at least the experienced reviewers.
I think the Labaton/Countrywide review is requiring over a year of securities doc review experience. and, I went on an interview a while back where the paralegal or whatever made a comment about me being new to doc review despite having over three years of experience. its gonna take a while for it to trickle down i think.
just 2 years ago agencies and firms didnt care much at all about experience
9:59 PM
Points taken. But as to your latter, if you're reading other people's work while clicking to classify it, with nice classical music in your ear, can it be that bad as long as you don't actually have cockroaches crawling up your leg? Can't you just ignore whatever psycho coworkers and supervisors are around, and give the bosses their money's worth while you're on the clock?
Please excuse my naivete; I'm not being facetious.
I wonder if you need experience to get the science-related work. For the languages, they seem willing to take newbies.
For the science, they (agency clients), at least a month ago, were playing games. Meaning, even if one has a science degree, they were playing "jump through some arbitrary hoop" to get the temp work. I am not sure what will happen due to the uptick. My guess is they will play games, but they will slowly stop playing them. One of the reasons I want out is the unnecessary game playing. I remember seeing one project in March, I think, in which they wanted former associates from Big Law to perform a doc review as a temp. Now, why should that matter? The truth is- it doesn't. It's just a fake hoop they created just because they could. In other words, they are dicking with us because they feel they can. Every job has a little bit of this, but with legal temp work, it seems that the agency clients take it to an extreme.
As for the technology, there is no way that software can do what doc reviewers. The problem with software is that they can not possibly design the necessary algorithms to address natural human language that will adapt to each project and create the necessary database.
They are trying to get around that by creating tags that employees internally within a company will follow that will reduce the amount of variability, but that seems a long ways off since I just read about that last year.
The concern is the confidence level, and, whether that level will be high enough to satisfy the standard that a judge may have regarding inadvertant disclosure of privileged or confidential information.
In other words, will a judge say you do not lose privilege or confidentiality because a software technology missed a vital piece of information.
Think of it practically- if a company is seeking to hide something by using codewords that are not readily apparent without reading documents in context- how would a software program pick that up unless it is programmed to know to look for that word or code words? How will it handle colloquialism?
Maybe, I am wrong. Maybe they have that software sophistication exists now, but judging by Google, they do not even have that level of sophistication for a single word search. Google is supposed to be the best int he world. I can not imagine some mom and pop legal software operation is there yet.
10:45 PM
I don't think the game-playing is arbitrary or malicious, but a practical way to cut down the number of resumes to be reviewed, if the supply is too great. If they are indeed doing the hoop thing with science people, then the supply of science people is so great that they need a way to reduce the number to a manageable level. If they need lefthanded polkadot Urdu speakers, they aren't going to play games and risk losing money.
10:57 PM
Of course you're wrong. Capt. Kirk just talked to his computer, and it told him whatever he needed to know. And that was back in 1967.
You don't know much.
And just what are those algorithm thingies? We're talking about software, so don't confuse matters by changing the subject.
ALL THIS CIVILITY AND REASONED DISCOURSE ISN'T FOOLING ANYBODY! IF YOU ALL WERE REALLY SO LOGICAL AND SANE, YOU WOULDN'T BE IN TEMP WORLD!!
10:45
You're absolutely right about how they dick with us.
For instance, I have an undergrad science degree, plus 2 years of med school, and live in LA, but am trying to move to DC.
By the way I got good grades in med school and passed the NBME part 1 with flying colors, but I quit after finishing 2nd year because I was only doing it to please my physician dad (who by the way was paying 100%).
About a month ago I responded to a flurry of craigslist and agency ads for what was obviously the same pharma project.
It was obvious that at least 3-4 different agencies were bidding for the same project, including bigger agencies that know their shit, as well as some smaller, less savvy "staffing" agencies scrambling for a slice of the action -- who obviously have no fucking idea what they're doing.
I had a conversation with one "recruiter", the owner of what seemed to be a small, one-man operation. Although he was polite, he actually said my resume was NOT what his clients were looking for. He said they wanted someone with a science degree and a JD who had actually worked for a pharma company or a biotech firm -- which I hadn't done.
Funny, because I got a 555 on the Pharm part of the NBME Part I -- well above the average of 515.
How my resume, with BS in biochem, 2 years of med school, high GPA, good law school, bar license and eligibility to waive into the DC bar without the exam, didn't qualify for that shit, I have no fucking idea.
1108
By arbitrary, I mean "determined by chance, whim, or impulse, and not by necessity, reason, or principle."
Stating there are too many people only increases the chance the decision making will be arbitrary because given no real way to differentiate between choices- people make up fake ones. It's human pscyhology. That does not change the reality that a choice is arbitrary.
This is one of the central problems with many conservatives and libertarians (I am not saying you are one). They do not understand that element of chance and arbitrariness growing out of human natures.
Also, just because one can make up an argument- does not make an argument valid. Your saying- well they did it, therefore, there was a reason to do it is tautological.
11:39 PM
You sure as hell are qualified. Maybe you struck out because you're not actually in DC now, and they have enough candidates so that they don't have to bother with anyone who just says he's coming to DC. I have no doubt that you really will move, but it's that supply/demand thing again. If you were that lefthanded polkadot Urdu speaker previously mentioned, they'd have to take the chance of your traveling.
1114
LOL. Spoken like a true lawyer. I know that part of the reason we get such crappy software on these projects is to ensure that the projects will go slow, but I also think part of it is due to lawyers not having a clue about technology. I am not even computer programming savvy, and I know what an algorithm is.
11:49
You're right -- not being in DC now is REALLY hurting me. Any suggestions? Someone said I should get a 202 Skype-In account, and use a friend's house as a mail drop.
Do I have to go that far to convince these bastards that I want to move to DC?
Supply and demand are aspects of a religion. Saying it's supply and demand does not make it rational. The assumption of markets is that decisions will be made by rational actors. As tot he guy in LA, I agree you probably will not get work in LA, but I also think you can not be assured of getting work when you move to DC either. Again- that arbitrariness means exactly that- there is no way to know how agencies and their clients will respond to any given variable. Again, that's what make it arbitrary until you get to know them and become pals with someone who puts you on their list of people they will keep hiring because y ou are friends with them.
11:48 PM
I am in fact both a conservative and a libertarian - specifically, a Burkean conservative and an economic libertarian (and yet further, a Constitutional strict constructionist).
I'm not saying that because they did it, then therefore there HAS to be a reason that they did it; you may be right in that they were being completely arbitrary. But I am saying that because they did it, then it is MORE LIKELY than not that they did it for a reason.
Indeed I don't KNOW that they were logically trying to deal with the problem of cutting down on an excessive number of resumes, rather than merely being arbitrary. But if I had to bet, I'd go with the former over the latter.
Lefthanded polkadot Urdu speakers being so scarce, I doubt they'd set up artificial barriers to keep themselves from getting what they need.
11:58
To make matters worse, I actually have a decent, permanent job with a firm here in LA. I feel guilty about leaving it while others aren't working.
But these agencies are putting up arbitrary hoops and playing games with people.
I think what happens is that when the agencies meet with clients (law firms), each one tries to outdo the others by inflating and puffing up the potential qualifications of the temps they'll provide, just so they can snag the gig.
So if agency A says "we'll give you attorneys barred in the project jurisdiction, who have science degrees", agency B tries to one-up A, and says, "we'll give you licensed attorneys who have science degrees AND experience working for biotech firms."
I can picture the agency hacks going in to meet with their potential clients, salivating at the thought of a new account, and with big DOLLA $IGNS in their eyes...
I think this is where all these stupid artificial hoops and games originate.... in the competition between agencies for client business.
I think it's pretty funny how you imagine what goes on behind the scenes btwn agencies and firms, then convince yourself that it's fact.
1206
I think all political philosophies adhered to like a religion are bullshit. Especially the one you mention. It's only slightly less crazy than Randian libertarianism.
Yours grew out of an Aristocratian desire to control the lower classes. The fact that some parts of the lower classes in America have now adopted this b.s. would be funny if it didn't also impact my life.
The point is exactly that there is no logic to cutting down a large number of resumes by setting up an arbitrary standard. If you have taken a basic course in psychology, you would know that humans need to discriminate, but that does not make it logically- which is the underpinning of non-arbitrary distinction. Again what you describe is tautological.
This points out the problem with the concept of meritocracy and all the other other b.s. concepts because it assumes a lack of luck. It's hardily meritorious if candidate A is picked over candidate B becuase they threw the resumes from the top of the stairs and choose the one that landed on top. It's just luck. Yet that's what you are defending as a proper process. That's what leads to insanity.
12:15
Isn't capitalism an inherently competitive system?
Economic competition seems to drive everything in this country, both financially and culturally.
And in a mega depression, that competition becomes ridiculously cutthroat. Business people morph from their normal state of intense American competitiveness, into something laughable, just to keep their companies afloat (barely).
I may be dead wrong on this, not knowing much about the world of staffing agencies, but I keep thinking of all the agencies that must be clinging to solvency on knife's edge.
I certainly have a lot of clients at our firm who have small and medium-sized businesses who are living month to month and a hair's breadth away from filing chapter 11.
11:58 PM
Supply and demand are aspects of a religion? Oy. If you don't already recognize that supply and demand affect economic behavior, then I'm not good enough to convince you.
It's socialism that's a religion. And unlike Christianity and Judaism, not a nice religion, but an evil one, that engenders servitude (ergo Hayek's Road to Serfdom), misery, and poverty.
Human beings are hardwired so that the only way for goods and services (and these include education, medical care, and pensions) to be provided in adequate quantity and quality is if the payor retains control of his payment, and so can switch it to a competitor whom he prefers to the current supplier. This is principle is so evident from public education, social security, world without end. The difference between dealing with with your local school and a private school is like the difference between dealing with the DMV and AAA. In each case, the former can do as it damn well pleases and still compel your money (taxes), no matter how well or poorly it performs, while the latter can lose your business (and therefore its revenue) to a rival.
12:18 AM
Oy again.
An arbitrary standard for cutting down the number of resumes is PERFECTLY logical if it lessens the amount of work you must do, yet still provides you with all the qualified candidates that you need.
If you have ten times the number of candidates that you need, and so you only review the resumes of NY law grads, and that reduced pool only gives you three times the number of candidates that you need - yet from that reduced pool, you still come up with enough andidates whom you consider acceptable - then by applying this arbitrary standard, you have still gotten what you need, but with less work. Going to the trouble of reviewing all of the resumes undoubtedly would have produced even more qualified candidates, but that is not what you needed. You only needed a lower number of qualified candidates. You still got that required lower number be applying the arbitrary standard, and you didn't have to do as much work.
To reiterate - with either alternative you would have selected a sufficient number of candidates whom you felt to be qualified, but with your method you would have had to review more resumes, with no better result. Coming up with even more qualified candidates is not a better result, if the lesser number of candidates that you get from doing less work is still sufficient for your needs.
I have no aristocratic desire to control the lower classes. I believe in the opposite of control. Socialism is control. I believe in freedom, including free markets. The evil law firms and agencies should be free to choose whom they wish, for whatever right or wrong, or good or bad reasons, and to succeed or fail by their own decisions.
I wish the "lower classes" in America indeed had adopted this b.s. Unfortunately, far too much of America susbscribes to your god, and it's a god that has failed, and always must fail.
I am not a Randian.
Now I win, and I'm through for the night.
1:35
You said:
"An arbitrary standard for cutting down the number of resumes is PERFECTLY logical if it lessens the amount of work you must do, yet still provides you with all the qualified candidates that you need."
No arbitrary standard for cutting down the number of resumes can EVER be perfectly logical.
For instance, randomly throwing every third resume in the trash without reading it would qualify as an eminently "arbitrary" standard for culling resumes, but would be far from logical if the goal is to reduce work while still providing all the qualified candidates that are required.
If you toss every third resume sight unseen (or giving it only cursory consideration), chances are that you'll actually be making MORE work for yourself in the long haul, extending the amount of time you need to staff the project with qualified candidates.
Manufacturing arbitrary standards or "hoops" is almost as ridiculous as randomly tossing every third resume, because it has the same net effect.
Therefore I submit that imposing artificial standards is counterproductive and only serves to make those who are screening candidates feel like they've accomplished something, when they've actually worked against their own interest not only in one sense, but on several fronts.
Not to mention the harm they've done to all the qualified applicants whom they've randomly given the heave-ho.
1:45 AM
Still more oy.
I really should have gone to bed.
Picking only NY grads, and throwing every third resume in the trash, are indeed exactly the same. And both are logical and meritorious - if both leave a sufficient number of resumes that meet your qualifications. Because with both alternatives you get what you need, but with less work.
Doing it my way indeed is perfectly logical, but it may not produce a perfect result. What you want isn't perfect logic, but a perfect result. But even you will not always expend the necessary effort to achieve the perfect result, and rightly so.
I'll bet that you're a fair person - and damnit, I'm not being condescending. But on the scale of ever increasing numbers of resumes, there is a point at which even you would throw some resumes in the trash. At some point, even the most conscientious reviewer would. If you were faced with 10,000 resumes, you would throw some in the trash.
And you're absolutely right that the fewer resumes you review, the less ideal will be your result. but it's a cost/benefit analysis.
Your position is a perfect example of the liberal fallacy examined by Thomas Sowell in The Quest for Cosmic Justice (as a conservative, I'm a bigot, so I hate always having to cite blacks and Jews like Sowell and Williams and Friedman, but there you are). As per Sowell, the liberal demands a perfect result, without considering (1) whether a perfect result is even achievable, and (2) whether the cost of the effort justifies whatever level of result actually is achieved. But as a practical matter, it is usually necessary to take both (1) and (2) into account in pursuing an objective.
So shame on you for throwing resumes in the trash.
10:33
Regarding the working conditions, it's not that simple.
The agencies overstaff the projects, and the degenerate permatemps know each other and the lit. assistants. Also, the degenerates give off bad vibes (that's why they're temping) and like being around other people that give off bad vibes (if you've ever interviewed people you'll know what I mean). So, the permatemps and lit. analysts (your bosses) help people they know or feel comfortable with, and set the normal people up to fail. Since the firm wants to get rid of 1/3 of the new hires, the permatemps/lit analysits generally win. So, if you're normal, your boss and coworkers are trying to get you fired. That way they can keep one of their weirdo buddies around. The fact that you're not relly doing any real work (you're a temp -- the big firm isn't going to trust you with anything remotely important) compounds the problem.
10:57 PM
The software exists, but nobody relly wants to use it. Why would a law firm decide to use software that will cause it to lose millions of dollars?
11:49
For what it's worth, I doubt the market is much better there for temps. That posse list stuff is a bunch of BS. They never know what they're talking about. Maybe for permanent jobs its better right now in DC, but who knows. If the DC market is better, NYC will run a few months behind, so hang out in NYC and stick it out.
One more point, there are jobs. Don't limit yourself to the temp stuff. If you're smart subatanative legal is a much better option than moronic temp work.
1:45 AM
One final observation.
You said:
"If you toss every third resume sight unseen (or giving it only cursory consideration), chances are that you'll actually be making MORE work for yourself in the long haul, extending the amount of time you need to staff the project with qualified candidates."
But you won't be making more work for yourself, if you end up getting what you need from the surviving two thirds. And if you're still short after reviewing the final two thirds, then you should start pulling the discarded third out of the trash, one by one, and retrash the ones you don't like, until you have the number of qualified candidates that you need.
By going this route you haven't lost any time or effort, but just saved yourself the labor of reviewing more resumes than you need to achieve the desired result - which is a sufficient number of qualified candidates.
This absolutely is what you yourself actually would do in real life. If you were faced with 10,000 and had to find 100 qualified candidates, you would randomly select and review only 3,000 of those 10,000 resumes - unless those 3,000 resumes didn't result in the 100 candidates that you liked. And if your randomly chosen 3,000 resumes only provided 90 suitable candidates, you'd start pulling the 7,000 randomly discarded resumes out of the trash one by one, until you got the remaining 10 that you needed.
3:26
Nope. You'd use search terms on teh 10,000 electronic resumes that you have to narrow the search down to 100 or so.
Data storage is cheap. Why would you go to the trouble of throwing out resumes when you can keep them on a computer?
OH FOR GOD'S SAKE! WOULD YOU TWO SISSIES PLEASE START INSULTING EACH OTHER, OR SPEWING OBSCENITIES, LIKE REAL TEMPS?!
HEY LA DOCTOR/LAWYER KID!
HURRY!! WITH THIS MARKET, I WOULDN'T JUST USE THE EMAIL ADDRESS BELOW, BUT I'D LOOK FOR THEIR EMERGENCY NUMBER AND CALL SUNDAY MORNING!!!
Lori Rones of Kelly Law Registry in DC may still be trying to staff a science doc review in Baltimore. The hourly rate is low, but it's several months long, and 40+ hours per week.
roneslo@kellylawregistry.com
If this works out, you owe me a thank you post here.
4:25
Thanks, man... really appreciate this. My suspicion is that they won't hold a spot open for me as I don't yet live in Metro DC-Baltimore.
Maybe I can find an abandoned row house along the Inner Harbor to squat in while I'm getting settled.
Anyway, I'm grateful for the tip.
My pleasure.
But post and let me know what happens.
Weird. I go away late last night. And, someone else continued to take my position. Funny that.
I'm went to Howard. It doesn't matter at all how bad the economy gets. I get any job and am firing-proof. I just can say they used the N-word. My performance doesn't matter and had nothing to do with me getting hired.
Oh God they're back. So much for thinking.
Yes yes we know. Niggers and Jews. So glad to see you again.
Oy without end.
I don't mean literally throw away, like with a real world, three dimensional wastebasket. I'm talking principles. By some arbitrary method, any human being - not being God and therefore lacking infinite capability - will be forced to use some method of arbitrary exclusion.
LA DOCTOR/LAWYER KID
I'm both the evil conservative and the one who's trying to help you. Not that it took me any trouble; of course it was easy. But it's still a kick to do what you can to help people. So please do let me know if this works, so I can have some pleasure in life, despite my vile free market proclivitiess.
2:10
Will do. Roger that. BTW, I'm a liberal/progressive, but I wasn't the one getting neck-deep in an ideological argument from the left last night. That was some other cat.
And thanks again for the heads up on things...
actually it was several cats. I posted the first comment about idealogical things after someone made some silly comment about arbitrary decisions being logical. Then, I went to bed, and at least one other person continued the conversation unless I was sleepwalking. I will repeat what I said before- it's arbitrary whether you get on doc reviews or not. They could as easily decide that they think you will leave because you have 2 years of med school as they could decide "wow he can bring something extra" You can't predict that.
3:38 PM
Once again, my pleasure.
3:44 PM
"The race is not always to the swift, nor the battle to the strong.”
Ecclesiastes, Ch. 9, v. 11
“--but that’s the way to bet.”
Damon Runyon (1884-1946)
'quotes without explaination are just fetish'
me
This week in (amazingly, thankfully few) law firm layoffs:
Ropes & Gray: 40 lawyers
Blake Lapthorn: 33 staff
Addleshaw Goddard: 85 staff
Charles Russell: undisclosed
Total: 40 lawyers, 118 staff
Maybe the bloodletting is stopping. This is a good sign for temps -- a stablization of the market.
4:07 PM
How's this?
You are assuming, without proof, that they are being completely arbitrary.
I am assuming, without proof, that they are TRYING (regardless of how skillful their tries are, but TRYING) to act rationally, for the sake of their own selfish interests.
Which of the foregoing is more likely?
I see you have nothing but tautology to offer. That plus projection. I am not really going to debate. Just observing out of boredom what you just argued.
We offer only ScaTTTology.
whoo is this chick (or guy) who seems to really want GayLLard?
To the Dude in LA:
You will definitely have to bring yourself to DC. In the meantime, the best thing you can do is to start your application (waive in) immediately. Once you do that, you will at least be in the "Pending DC Bar" group. The process is still quite long because with most people (not even those who are that far out of school and do the score thing, rather than the 5 years of admission to another bar thing), it's usually going past the 6-month timeframe. DC is slow, the backlog is growing and people are indeed coming to DC to get any work from nearby areas.
The DC Bar is just a given if you are doing contract work here. Don't let that be a stumbling block for you!
I agree with the person who said to register with as many agencies as possible. Add to that keep your circle of friends who do contract work as a steady source of referrals. Referrals generate work. With any fees, either agree to split the fee with the person you refer or just let them have if they like or maybe put in an emergency fund for food or something.
One way to know what is going on is to keep in touch with your friends who are also contractors. There are always people who have better rapport with one agency or another and that generates work, too. But, you can get information generally and know absolutely when someone is lying. If you are faced with making a choice between projects, that may be a great piece of information to have if a recruiter has lied to you.
In some ways, I'm surprised about the comment to the attorney about 3 years being "new" to doc review, but then again not. What a lot of us in our 20's and 30's have been noticing is that the slowdown/dry up, whatever you want to call this period, has brought a lot of the older contractors out of the woodwork. One of my friends told me he had 3 attys on his last project of 10 people who were 60+, all grandfathers. He said they had all been doing doc review for at least 4-5 yrs.
To the person who mentioned the Hudson project in DC that was requesting "former associates" for reviewers, that backfired big time for Hudson. They could not find any applicants. So, consequently, all the people who were smart enough to submit their resumes who were just "regular reviewers" got hired. The only thing Hudson and the firm were worried about was if everyone would complete the project.
For those attorneys who do not have a technical, scientific specialty (B.A. or otherwise) or experience from reviews, one of the best things you can do is to refine or learn a foreign language. The foreign language reviewer market here in DC has been incredibly active, probably 2-3x what it was this time last year. People are turning down work. And, you do not have to be an expert linguist to review these docs in certain languages, especially the Romance languages (French, Spanish, Italian, Portuguese). Rosetta Stone has been conducting a market research study in this area for people to actually be paid to learn a language. So, perhaps that's something of interest to someone.
And, there actually are active markets such as Charlotte and Houston. I know several people from the DC area who have family/friends in Houston and they've been gainfully employed for over a year, but at a substantially lower rate than they had been making. 6+ months of unemployment is too much for most people to bear.
4:07 PM
So if you have a science background and are both DC pending and barred elsewhere, shouldn't you be able to get work? Those qualifications haven't helped me get doc review work so far.
If you're a grandfather and no longer want to do substantive work, doc review is a noce way to make some money, if you can get projects.
To the guy in LA. Do not give up your fulltime job to do Doc. Review unless your prepared to live on UE for 6 months or so. The market sux, and the recruiters lie. Do not assume that you will find a doc. review job. Als, you run the risk of getting fired if you've been working as a professional. Doc. review is a world unto itself with certain dos and donts that have no real correspondence to regular legal work. For example, doing a crummy job reviewing 500 docs is considered good work if it meets the quota. However, going to the bathroom 3 times in one day may get you fired.
I repeat be very careful about leaving a permenant job for doc review. It's not what it's cracked up to be, at least in NYC. Maybe DC is better.
A much better alternative is to try and find a substanative type job in DC and then move.
4:07
The regular job market is also hot for foreign languages. Also, for contract work, you have to be pretty good at the foreign language stuff. For one thing, you have to pass an online exam given by the agencies. However, this may change when the hiring market picks up. Any reasonable person with foreign language skills should be able to land a full time job, and that signifigantly reduces the number of qualified applicants.
Re Associates for Doc Review
Glad to hear that it burned them. It was a pointless requirement.
Re Technical skills
It is not a cure all. It is necessary, but not sufficient.
Re LA Guy
I repeat the same as others. Do not assume any rational behavior on these projects. They are not like professional positions, in which, yes, you can expect some bullshit, but there is some rationality to it. Doc reviews are dysfunctional work environments. I would say look for a job. If you have a degree in biochem- have you taken the patent bar? if so, there are a few firms in DC that specialize. Focus on the small operations rather than the big firms.
You have nothing to lose by focusing on substantive work over doc reviews. You have everything to lose by quitting to do doc reviews. Even if you obtain a doc review, it may hinder the search for real work as a) you may need the money and b) the review maybe inflexible to your need to search for a perm position.
6:11
Thanks for all the comments, people!
Regarding working on a doc review project and how it'll hinder my ability to find a perm job in DC, I'm finding that there is nothing that hinders me so much -- in finding both temp work AND permanent work -- as living on the other side of the country.
I've already discussed this with a number of agencies in DC and they just have a flat-out policy of not hiring people from outside the greater DC area, no matter how qualified the candidates. They just tell me to call when I get there.
I think this is somewhat true for the permanent employment market, too, although it might not be as hard-and-fast a rule. (Agencies are working on behalf of clients and therefore need to produce employees at the snap of the client's finger, while principal employers can take their time finding the right candidate.)
The only downside with living outside your target city in getting a permanent gig may be that it makes the employer feel guilty that they should have to pay relocation costs. This becomes a sub-rosa issue in the negotiation process, and probably bean counters always advise hiring partners or HR departments that the better candidate is the cheaper candidate who can start immediately without paying to help him/her relocate.
Why are you asking agencies? I would not tell people that I live outside of DC. They would not know if you do not tell them.
dear guy from l a. You are either fake or a big fnnng idiot. What a waste of flesh. You should of just gone to eorkbat starbuck's and stayed out of clogging up the legal profession further. Your a fukin idiot and tonthd idiot humoring him you a a tool. Your both tools
By the way, i work at chuck e. cheese's as a clown which is atleast better then sworlking at Starbuck's where you should work at. Your such a tool, really. Your all tools
Refuckingtart... there are no clowns at Chuckie Cheese. There is Chuckie the Mouse, Big Doggie, Girl Duck, Man on Banjo and RaRa. No clown so you are a liar. BTW, I am the bus boy at CC with a NYLS JD dweep ass.
what are we going to do about the jews fucking up this country?
In general, if you're not going to work for a Biglaw firm, DC is a TERRIBLE place to start a law career.
DC has a huge number of public interest and nonprofit jobs which really pull down average starting salaries for lawyers. Salaries of $25-30,000 are common. These kinds of jobs are equivalent to "extended internships" where new lawyers are getting experience, usually partially subsidized by family.
This actually spills over into the private sector, too... Private sector employers take advantage of the low salary market, and entry-level attorney jobs like staff attorneys, in-house counsel for for-profit companies, and first-year associates at smaller firms, etc. that would pay $55-75K elsewhere may pay $35-40K in DC.
what about the crafty, underhanded jews who dont care about this country or anything except how much money they earn!!!
careful, TTT is jewish and he will let you bad mouth any group except the jews.
One sided free trade agreements fucked up the economy, not jews. It is unfair to suggest that. The stupid costly war in Iraq didn't help. The ABA doesn't protect our interests either by allowing outsourcing to this extent.
For God's sake don't respond to him, he'll think he's a fellow human being. Now go wash your hands.
I am working on a Skadden project. Why does the supervisor cackle like a chicken?
9:23, who are you referring to?
Jewish interests favored the Iraqi war because Iraq was a threat to Israel. Corporate and financial interests that benefit from free trade are predominaed by Jews. The ABA? Well I do know that 40 perecent of partners at elite biglaw firms in New York and Washington are Jewish. . ..
11:43. isn't it obvious that I'm referring to little Franz Liebkind right above me?
One day we accidently bumped on the street in Midtown. He jumped back and snarled "Rancid pigshit!" I stuck out my hand and said "Barry Adler."
IRAQ - there because of the jewish lobby, and to a lesser extent oil. If you dont know anything about that read the Isreal Lobby and US Foreign Policy. You need an eye opener ignoramous.
CORRUPTION. Per capita, jewish people are the largest committers of crime on earth. Their crime is usually not murder or robbery but fraud and deceiptive type of crime. This is why Madoff did what he did. This is why Richard Fuld (brought down Lehman) did what he did. This is why Maurice Greenburg (broght down AIG) did what he did. This is why Loeb (brought down countrywide leading to the morgage scandall) did what he did. This is why Milken (jund bond floater) did what he did. The list goes on and on and on
Now's a good a time as any........what market is hotter NY or DC? I've been clammoring for jobs in each mkt (dually licensed) and haven't been offered a position in a month. Oth than the $43/hr/7day Clutch project that I turned b/c of scheduling conflicts
Any leads on new projects. Is the action in NY or in DC? Any rumors on Kelly staffing Skadden in midtown or Hudson/HireCounsel/Special Counsel all underbidding each other for the 3 month DC pharmaceutical project (which keeps getting pushed back!!)
kelly has staffed skadden in midtown, not a rumor, maybe they'll add more
So the Kelly Skadden project is fully staffed? They are lying sacks of sh*t. Told me they were waiting for the go ahead from Skadden, and would let me know when they submit my resume for approval.
HireCounsel is now LowerCounsel
Robert Half is now Robert Quarter
Hudson is now Kill Van Kull
Update is now OldNews
Dine is now Dyin'
Screw you anti-semitic piece of crap! Identify yourself so I can come and kick the shit out of you!
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