Although many of us are shit out of luck when it comes to landing work during this economic recession, at least many of us will be spared from the ravages of pig flu.
Imagine, for example, if the miserable, crowded Vioxx opearation at 65 Broadway was still in operation? Talk about a microbe incubator. Who can forget all the nameless bodies all piled on top of one another coding away at Satan's workshop? (The Bloomberg lemmings have nothing on us oldtimers.) I cringe when I think back upon the small, nasty bathroom that had to serve over 120 people. The odors, the cheapness of Hudson in not providing soap or toilet bowl covers, the permatemp who had a nervous breakdown and wiped her feces all over the wall. Ah, the memories.
97 comments:
Hey, Vioxx kept us fed and clothed for many years.
Poison pills.
After years doing the temp gig, I was hired as an "Associate" recently by a respected plaintiff's solo. The guy's made a fortune suing companies and is on the downtown. Unfortunately, he's paying me less than I made doing work study. The salary, according to colleagues with similar at experience, is quote "an embarrassment" and "disgusting." Now I'm in a bind because I also do not have medical insurance. Ignore the fact the solo is old as heck and probably wouldn't survive a regular flu, let alone the H1N1. Does he want me to make him sick? Obviously, I'm going to have to avoid going to work if I start feeling a respiratory infection. But can I be subject to attorney discipline if he, in this market, forces me basically to avoid work due to his age and frailty and provide inadequate representation to clients? He doesn't do anything for our clients except answer the phone. I mean, I totally know they'll disbar me because I'm poor and "don't have any family connections" (to quote a partner at the BIGLAW firm I used to temp at). If so, let me know, so I can throw myself in front of a bus now. I'll start getting my will ready in the meantime.... oh wait, I have no assets, just debt obligations. Thanks Sallie Mae!
Tips for avoiding the H1N1:
1) WEAR A MASK!!! Wear a surgical face mask during your commute, at work, and after work. Take it off only while at home. Make sure the mask is close to your face at all times, not hanging loosely.
2) WEAR GLOVES WHEN OUT IN PUBLIC!!! Get a box of lightweight rubber disposable gloves, and wear them no matter where you are, whenever in public. This includes eating, shaking hands, and even at the office/work, when typing.
3) MAKE NO UNNECESSARY TRIPS!!! Avoid any unnecessary trips to the movies, big restaurants, or anywhere that large numbers of people congregate. Avoid airplane trips unless absolutely necessary for work, and if you must, wear a mask during the flight. Avoid any and all trips to Mexico.
4) Remember, the official name of this malady, per the US Public Health Service, is the 2009 H1N1 FLU. Avoid insensitive or stereotypical names, such as the Mariachi Flu, the Wetback Flu, the the Illegals' Revenge, or the Dirty Stinkin' Beaner Flu.
Bobby 0.5 has posted up something on the NYC Craigslist today... attorney jobs for $20/hour. Get 'em while they're HOT!!!
That's the "Robert Half the Pay" bloomberg gig. They must have fired a bunch of the subhumans and now need to pour in more temps to fill up the chairs.
9:39 AM
Here some other insensitive names for H1N1 that should be avoided:
The Beaner Bug
Pendejo Pandemic
Swine flu is what is being spread around BigLaw firms and temp agencies across the country
swine flu goes well with curry... going to India for more documents...
Just saw the posting for robert half, they are looking for experienced attorneys to write briefs for $25 an hour. As a temp, so no benefits. Research for $20 an hour.
Tomorrow May 1st is official if your gonna kill yourself take a law school dean or biglaw partner with you day or head of the aba.
If you started working at the post office after high school you'd be making more than $25 an hour and less postal than if you went to law school with this job market.
somebody needs to do something. I heard a crew for air france refused to board plane going to mexico.
meanwhile we take it up the ass in america everyday.
what a joke we are. somewhere a jihaddi is laughing at us.
Attorney- In DC Healthcare Law Firm - Contract Position (Washington, DC - McPherson Square)
Reply to: job-7cedu-1147255029@craigslist.org [Errors when replying to ads?]
Date: 2009-04-30, 8:52AM EDT
Title: Attorney
Pay Range: $18-$20 per hour
Type: Contract/temporary position for two month project starting immediately
Location: Washington, DC – near McPherson Square Metro, two blocks away from White House
Reports to: Attorney
Hours: 8:30am-5:30pm
Company Profile: Healthcare Legal Solutions, LLC, is a healthcare collections firm that provides denial management, consulting, corporate collections services to hospitals and health systems. HLS represents hospitals against corporate debtors such as insurers, workers compensation carriers, employers and government.
Qualifications:
Undergraduate GPA of 3.5 or higher. Proficiency in Microsoft Office including Word and Excel. Interest in health law preferred. Candidates need to be highly organized, excellent writers, aggressive, motivated, outgoing and goal oriented.
Job Tasks
The candidate must have excellent organizational and problem solving skills.
Candidate will assist with an ample case load of corporate health claims. Candidate will assist with the administrative appeals process to resolve problematic (e.g., underpaid or denied) medical claims for payment with health, governmental and workers compensation insurers. Candidate will contact claim adjusters, patients, doctors, medical specialists and employers to obtain missing or additional information. Candidate will prepare, review and submit legal appeals, insurance-claim forms and related documents to insurers.
Candidates have to be good, aggressive and cordial on the telephone to effectuate fair and prompt claims payment to client hospitals.
Interested candidates should send resumes with undergraduate and J.D. GPA.
Location: Washington, DC - McPherson Square
This is a contract job.
Principals only. Recruiters, please don't contact this job poster.
Please, no phone calls about this job!
Please do not contact job poster about other services, products or commercial interests.
Healthcare Legal Solutions, LLC + $18-$20 per hour pay = Assraped
Is that FaGallard, the Virg and the MarkPotamA? LOL PIGS for Sure
I worked on the Hudson Newark job.
The people working wandered around like a bunch of zombies. Getting berated by agencies.
Joan King says this is an aberrattion and she never heard about such a thing.
I think the factory model of the review gigs mirrors the factory shithole that incubated swineflu on the factory farm in Mexico. Of course, that permatemp bitch would probably wipe shit on the wall no matter how many people were in the workspace. According to the BLS, there is an over supply of attorneys, and if they let her (and everybody else) in BIGLAW, she'd be rubbing the shit around in a bathroom a few floors up.
Once again, though, the Indians show their superiority by maintaining a sensible, vegetarian diet. They probably do deserve my job. With their cultural tradition and toilet habits, they probably don't have to worry about someoe shit-shellacking a bathroom (please don't tell me their corporate workspaces are less crowed than our docreview space).
Don't eat swine, eat vegetarian. A vegetarian diet is most ecologically responsible, your factory farms for swine and chicken disgust me. I like curry.
Indians use one hand to wipe their ass, without toilet paper and the other to eat.
They also eat and shit in the same filther rivers, e.g. Ganges. The swine flu would be very happy there.
I'm totally against outsourcing but anyone posting the kind of hate-filled garbage that's on this thread isn't not exactly acting like a professional. Your anger is understandable but misdirected. Blame biglaw and the ABA not those being exploited by them.
It has been very rough but the work is coming back. There is a lot more here now than there was a month ago. It was a really, really bad dry spell but doc reviewers are starting to go back to work. It is improving.
This morning a lady at a staffing agency asked me if I wanted to do a doc review gig for $22 an hour.
I told her, "When pigs fly!"
She said, "Well, swine flu. So you can line up for the job there, on the left."
11:12PM,
The work is NOT coming back. Be specific if you're telling the truth. What "work" has come back lately? Law firms are outsourcing more than ever and they'll continue to do so.
The work is coming back if you speak Cambodian, Latvian, Yoruba, Farsi, Bulgarian, Tahitian, Indonesian, etc.
There has an increase in resume collecting by the DC agencies. I have no idea whether that's wishful thinking on their part, or if they have real reason to expect that the DC work is going to start picking up.
65B wasn't that bad. And it is not shut down, btw....
9:20
Could be them, as they truly are swine. Incidentally the precautions posted for avoiding swine flu are the same for avoiding contact with these cretins:
1) WEAR A MASK!!! (because a staff attorney who has been in the office overnight hasnt showered and stinks like hell!!)
2) WEAR GLOVES!!! (Alex J. Gay-Lord and the rest of them have the skin of a snake and the blood of a pig - not the type of stuff you want to touch. And they've been cupping their tiny balls all day with their hands, you wouldnt want to shake anyway.)
3) MAKE NO UNNECESSARY TRIPS!!!
(Avoid the basement, bathrooms, and the garbage corridors. These are their natural habitats.)
2:40
The agencies start collecting resumes to bid on projects, or even when they hear a firm is about to start soliciting bids for a project.
I've seen different agencies run ads to collect resumes, with exactly the same project descriptions (i.e., pharma doc reviews requiring biology or chemistry grads, etc.)... I call the agency, and they tell me they're just collecting resumes and the project isn't certain yet... then a week or 2 weeks later, another agency runs the same ad with the same criteria. Then 2 weeks after that, a third agency actually gets the project, and announces in an ad that the project will start the next Thursday or something.
So when you see ads, you have to be aware that it's often multiple agencies collecting resumes to bid on the same project.
I posted a long time ago about a shit job I had out of law school paying $17,000 a year.
I now make double six figures as in-house. So, please take offense at what I am about to write:
Although most doc review jobs are lousy, when I read someone complaining that someone wants to pay htem only $18 an hour for:
"Candidate will assist with an ample case load of corporate health claims. Candidate will assist with the administrative appeals process to resolve problematic (e.g., underpaid or denied) medical claims for payment with health, governmental and workers compensation insurers. Candidate will contact claim adjusters, patients, doctors, medical specialists and employers to obtain missing or additional information. Candidate will prepare, review and submit legal appeals, insurance-claim forms and related documents to insurers.
Candidates have to be good, aggressive and cordial on the telephone to effectuate fair and prompt claims payment to client hospitals.
Interested candidates should send resumes with undergraduate and J.D. GPA."
I want to puke.
Not because the money is so little, but because the poster obviously is just the kind of person who should be making $18 an hour, and never should have gone to law school.
When I read a posting like that, and I have no marketable skills, I don't complain. I say "Wow, someone is willing to hire me (ok, for lousy wages) and let me lear nall that stuff that I don't now know, and establish contacts all over the friggin' place, and then I can quit without any problem!"
If someone hands you shite, feed the flies with it. If someone gives you lemons, make lemonda. If someone is giving you experience and contacts, no matter what the effin reason, be happy, take it, learn, establish contacts, quit, and then open up your own office and hire *other* no-brainers like the other posters here.
Geez. Did they take brains away in law school?
Where is this project that Robert Half is advertising for? They have ads in DC, Boston, Texas, California, etc, etc.
10:14 AM
Thanks. That makes sense.
Other than that, do you have any opinion on whether and when work will pick up in DC?
2:40
To Anonymous 1:15
AMEN!! I never post on this site but shamefully read it for comic relief. But your comment was Sobering, Accurate, and unfortunately - completely - wasted advice on these mongrels. It's much simpler to complain and blame others... funny thing is those "others" are eating and working these days. Don't hate the player... hate the game ; )
4:57
Get off that asshole's nuts. I bet you are just Trollop, or his little Babu, trying to curry favor in the face of globalization.
hey, 1:15.
Fuk you and your double six digits your mom or uncle got you a job on.
I got five digits to deliver to your face and another five to deliver to your girl's ass. You interested? I'm sure she is.
So again fuck you.
P.S.
I'll back my shit up motherfucker. And before you post some wise ass comment to that. You better understand you are not a man. I got nothing to lose motherfucker. AND WOULD ENJOY BRINGING YOU PAIN
KILLLLLLL
Thats what I'm talking about! Lets get to the real pain in this motherfucker!!!!!!
double six figures person, I get waht you are saying, and thats great, I am glad you got out, my problem is if I work for that little then I can not make my rent and loan payments, let alone something like food. I don't ave mom and dad to pay my bills or someone else to help with my bills. I am like alot of people in this regard, if you have mom and dad paying for you while you learn all this stuff and make no money, great, but realize that is not the real world for most people, and simply is not an option for most people. So now that y u learned all this stuff how about hiring one or two of us and teach us?
douchebag said what
1:15 here
what
it's me. i normally don't post, but...
what
4:57 tourist
Double six figures! That's twelve figures!! That mus be like a millionty billionty dollars!!!!
And thanks for the tip, I'm gonna take all the shit I get and make shit-aide from now on!!
The Robert Half "job" is probably the notorious Bloomberg labor camp. Be careful of this no-pay GITMO situation.
Flies eat shit? Why would I want to feed flies? Why is the entitled SOB so mad at the fly feeder/lemonadista?
no clicking on a saturday because this gig has no OT.. must walk out the door the moment i reach the promised land (re: OT)...
trying to use the time off wisely.. but dreaming of clicking..click.. click.. click.. print... click.. print.. click.. print.. click....
2:20
It's hard to say, but I think the work will come back. There seems to be no shortage of foreign language and specialty work in DC... just not many "straight" English projects being announced.
A few agencies, like LegalSource, run regular resume-collection ads. But if you ask them on any given day, or even visit their offices, they'll tell you there are no projects they're immediately hiring for.
They periodically run these ads about every 3 weeks, because they have to be ready at a moment's notice in case a firm calls them to get a bid on a contract. They have to always have a "fresh" pool of applicants who they know currently need work. If they let their pool get too stale, they might not be able to win a project in a crunch.
I rather enjoy shoving my engorged tube steak straight down and into your mummy's tummy.
I can't get on JDUnderground. Did Joan King launch a cyberattack?
12:00 PM
Thanks again for the info. If the work is coming back to DC, I wonder when. I don't see why the specialty jobs should be going on, but the straight English jobs aren't.
I'm going going to bolster my resume & get an LLM in Climate Change: http://www.pace.edu/page.cfm?doc_id=33340
No more doc review for me!
Yes the BLS admins are on the attack! watch out lemmings!
Frankly,when I was at BLS I thought I had "made it" and laughed at people who were at Touro or Cardozo. I fell for the BLS BLS(BuLlShit).I'm on every temp list in the world and even at $20 can't get a callback. But my students loans aren't waiting for me to get a job. And they are excluded from bankruptcy filing.
Ahh, lemming, you fell for the old, "false prestige" ruse. Here at BLS we try to puff up our lemmings to feel superior, all the while signing their lives away with hoplelessly massive loan debt.
Those at the top of class get a free ride, get all of the best job opportunities and support of the school. You get none of that and your loans pay for the scholarships for our chosen winners.
Sorry my pretty, we caught you this time! Going back to Kansas won't erase that debt.
Ahhhhhahahahahahahahahahahahhhahhahahaahahaha.
The DC market is starting to come back. 3 emails I received this week
Project #1
Good morning!
We are staffing a long-term opportunity starting on Wednesday of next week and wanted to see if you would be interested! The details are as follows:
Firm: Hogan & Hartson
Start: Wednesday May 6th
Hours: 40 hrs/wk
Available Schedule: 8:00am-6:00pm, Monday - Friday
Duration: 6-9 months
Pay: $33/hr
Location: Metro Center
Project Requirements:
1. DC Barred
2. US Citizenship
If this is something that you are interested, please let me know the following:
1. Have you ever worked with Hogan before? If so, please let me know which project and who was your supervisor.
2. Do you need any time off over the next several months?
3. Do you have any concurrent employment?
We will be submitting resumes for consideration and if selected, there will be a conflicts form to complete.
Thanks, and I look forward to hearing from you!
Rachel Rachel Tuckerman
Senior Placement Director
Project #2
We have a Pharma Antitrust case coming in May for which our client would like to begin reviewing resumes now. We need English reviewers and French reviewers.
Start date: mid May (possibly late May)
Expected Duration: 6 months
Hours: 40 hours per week; OT could become available as project progresses and deadlines approach
Location: Hudson review center (metro accessible)
Firm: TBA
Rate:$34/hourforEnglishreviewers;$37/hour forFrenchreviewers
Conflicts: To follow later in the submission process
Requirements-
Required / please do not apply unless you have all:
* U.S. State bar, active and in good standing
* Pharmaceutical Experience (this experience may be derived from a pharm doc review.)
* For the French reviewers: must be able
to read the documents in French, understand them, and comfortably make
an accurate call regarding relevance and privilege.
Preferred:
* DC barred or DC bar pending attorneys
* Document review experience
If you would like to be submitted, you MUST answerALLof the following:
1) Are you applying for French or English review?
2) Pleasestate all U.S. state (and DC) barsin which you are anactivemember andingood standing; includeDC pendingstatus where applicable.(If you are DC pending please provide thewaiver application date along with active state bar in which you are a member of good standing).
3) Attach anupdated RESUMEin WORD FORMAT that includes all document review experience to date.IT IS IMPORTANT that your resume reflect ALL law firm experience, doc
review experience, pharmaceutical background, language proficiency, and
bar status.
4) PleasedescribeyourPharmaceutical background (substantive or doc review) "See resume" is not sufficient.
5) Please statenumber of years you have in law firm experience as apracticing attorney (associate level or higher).
6) How manymonths of doc review experience do you have?
7) Do you speak enoughFrenchto review documents in French? If yes please describe fluency level.
8) Indicate any foreseenscheduling conflicts(appointments, days off etc)
9) Are you currentlyon a project or have a resume submitted for a pending project?
11) Are you currently in the middle of aninterview process for a permanent position? Please describe where it stands.
12) Do you foreseeany reasonwhy youMIGHT notbe able tobegin theprojectAND/ORsee this project through tocompletion?
13) Are youregistered with Hudson (have you been to our office and met with a Hudson recruiter)?
Kind Regards,
The Hudson Team
Elizabeth Entsminger
Caroline Fisher
Melanie Rinzel, Esq.
Hudson-Legal
1111 19th Street, NW
Suite 620
Washington, DC 20036
202 729 3900 (office)
(800) 837-7732 (benefits)
202 729 3901 (fax)
24-hour staffing line: 202 489 5674
DCLegalProject@Hudson.com(registered contractors)
DCLegalRecruiters@Hudson.com(unregistered contractors)
Project #3
Kelly Law Registry has an immediate need for licensed attorneys for a
document review project beginning on May 6th. The project will last
between nine and twelve months, will be housed in a downtown DC space
(metro accessible), will pay $32 per hour, and will include a maximum 40
hour work week. No overtime will occur on this project. To qualify, you
must have some document review experience, be licensed under any state bar,
and be available to work for the entire length of the project.
If you have that experience, meet those qualifications and have not
previously registered with Kelly Law Registry, please send your resume to:
lafoncl@kellylawregistry.com
roneslo@kellylawregistry.com
crewsab@kellylawregistry.com
Dear 9:23. I am 1:15.
I didn't use an uncle to get a job. I am a (relatively) old guy. In the early 80's I made 17k. 2 years later, 25k. Got a real job, and was paid 35k ,40k ,etc. Every freaking 10 grand cost me time. I didn't jump anywhere.
But at each job I learned something.
Sorry your debts are so high. But what did you think was going to happen when you graduated?
Just relax guys.
The market it starting to creap back up.
I'm working on and off and there's more projects going on. I keep getting calls for temp gigs and some of them provide substanative experience (yes they exist). The permenant job market is also starting to pick up. As soon as demand increases, it gets hard to fill the temp positions with reasonable people (they get permenant jobs), so you no longer have to put up with the clique/snitch stuff.
If you've got the cash go traveling for 6 months or so. When you come back, everything will have gotten back to normal.
I think the temp gigs are starting to come back because firms are slashing associates to the bone. First they were giving some doc review to associates and taking it out of the temp market, now they have fewer associates to give it to. So it's starting to bulge out again into the temp market.
Generally, the temp market improves first when the economy improves and is the first to experience problems in an economic downturn. Permenant hiring lags behind the temp positions. Unemployment in NYC is starting to drop, so it stands to reason that there will be more temp jobs. Give it 6 months, and you'll start to see permenant jobs again. The solo market will also start to pick up when people have more money.
1:50
I do think you're being a bit too optimistic here, implying that the economy is about to "pick up" and lotsa people are gonna have more money soon.
Check out this article from the Washington Post today:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/05/02/AR2009050202207.html?hpid=topnews
From the article:
"Once you knock down wage growth, it will take a substantial change in unemployment to move it again," said Lawrence Mishel, president of the Economic Policy Institute, a left-leaning think tank in Washington. "The recovery is going to be weak. I think as wage growth subsides, it is going to subside for many years."
The little bright eyes JDs never change!
Listen to the little birds tweety!
The market is not coming back.
Law firms cutting back permanently.
They are not going to start hiring a bunch of temps.
If and when they hire 10 years from now after the shell shock, they will hire the YOUNGEST AND BEST people, not the useless old temp pool.
I love this blog. Search for postings from back in middle of '07 and you will read the exact same line. "Go traveling for 6 months and when you come back everything will be back to normal."
9:33
The current downturn has been very serious, but there won't be a 10-year depression in the legal job market as you say.
Firms will have to start hiring again, both temporary and permanent attorneys, because the volume of litigation is really out of their control. The current "shell shock" is just a transition where credit is tight, and clients' fiscal positions are still unsure. There won't be a massive rebound in credit markets, but it will rebound enough to start fueling litigation again.
I still think a lot of the English-language work is going to India, and this trend will probably continue until it reaches a plateau.
But I think a lot of the temp agencies are acting as though there's substantial litigation in the pipeline. They're collecting resumes and announcing projects... more than 3-5 months ago. So this is at least a semi-positive trend.
All that notwithstanding, NO ONE should depend on the temp doc review market for a "career". Unless a person is near retirement, attorneys should do doc review only as a last resort, and always be angling for something more substantive -- inside or outside of the legal profession.
From The Posse List:
There is an interesting article on Lawdable, the blog of Counsel on Call. The article was brought to our attention by our colleagues at Gabes Guide.
The article notes (as we have several times) that several law firms have publicly stated that they plan to use more contract attorneys ... as they simultaneously announce associate layoffs. The article states that "this shift is good news for in-house departments who will have more flexibility in cost containment with outside counsel" and goes on to affirm that a blended model will prevail in the industry.
10:52 PM
That was damn nice of you to provide that info.
Despite what you say, the law firms have been doing the opposite - they've been cutting temps to save associates big fat overpaid asses.
But with such great prizes like Touro graduated unemployed doc reviewers I am sure you think they're better than the big firm associate pool.
Right, the upshot of this is that sure, more temps will be hired, but that they will be of associate caliber. It's bad news for the TTT doc reviewer lifers without substantive big firm experience.
In other words, the associates who were fired in 2008 and 2009 and forced to become Hudson temps will be "re-hired" by the big firms but as low paid temps.
Like running them through the laundry machine.
Meanwhile the Skadden shitheads like Eisenlord will be teaching English to monks on a beach.
2:06
FYI, I was the one who posted most of that stuff. I graduated from a Tier 1 school. Since I don't live in NYC or move in those circles, I don't know much about Touro or the infamous Brooklyn Law. Both sounds like Dante's Seventh Circle of Hell.
I'm just saying -- and it looks like the link I posted from Posse List backs this up -- there's a broad shift going on from assigning this kind of work to expensive, in-house associates, to using temps.
That's why, when the dust from the battered economy clears, we'll probably see proportionately more doc review and other kinds of low-end legal work being done by temp contractors outside of the firms.
2:19
I think you're right that more temps will be hired, but I think it'll be kind of the opposite of what you say.
I think that the laid-off associates with the pedigreed resumes will be competing directly with low-end temps from mediocre schools, and probably more of the jobs will go to the low-end people.
The temp firms often prefer to hire people who they don't think will walk away in 2 months for a six-figure job offer at a firm... biglaw, mediumlaw, or smalllaw, it doesn't matter. The firms think the high-caliber people will walk, so they'll be less disposed to use them.
These white-shoe Ivy Leaguers will be competing with Nigerian law grads, and American TTT refuse, and other assorted marginalized castoffs and bottom-feeders, and most of the time, the Ivy League and posh former Biglaw associates people will come out with the short end of the stick and won't get hired.
You'll see the exact same profile in the ranks of the temps. It's not going to change.
But by hiring the attorneys with the pedigree resumes today, they're able to form a connection with the people that may be hiring temps tomorrow. Also keep in mind that the associates running the projects will hire alum.
I don't think you know sh--.
You cannot compare the experience and skill of associates to doc review temps.
Doc review temps do not have the ability to do any work performed by associates, except for reviewing docs first level. A few I guess can do real estate closing and misdemeanor cases.
Associates are unfortunately the future of a law firm. And where they get their partners.
Temps who think they will be replaced by themselves should ask themselves what expertise these temps have to do any meaningful work.
I have been a temp since finishing law school.
However let's be realistic. Temps have the ability to do a small fraction of the real work of a law firm, and aren't allowed to get near anyone - not only not any clients but not anyone within the law firm except through the agency bimbos.
If what you said is true, that associates can be replaced by temps, the small law firms which don't need future partners would be hiring them.
But they don't.
Get the picture?
3:08
It's doubtful temps who work on a project now will be more likely to chose one temp agency over another when they become a partner, and are in a position to start making these decisions -- much less recall what agencies they were working for.
By the time these people make partner at some firm (assuming it ever happens), the temp agency landscape will be all different anyway.
With regards to giving preference for hiring alums, yes there is something to that, but I'm not sure how much input the associates running a project would have in choosing temps. I would think they have very little input in the process. Yeah, they might flag a resume here and there to help out a former classmate or alum, but I don't see this happening on any mass scale.
3:41
"If what you said is true, that associates can be replaced by temps, the small law firms which don't need future partners would be hiring them.
But they don't. Get the picture?"
First of all, firms are already effectively replacing associates with temps, but they're doing it indirectly, through staffing agencies.
Secondly, there will be some "mission creep", where first temps do simpler stuff like doc review, and then it slowly creeps to more and more complex stuff. And the driver for all this will be nothing else but the desire to save money. Quality work product is but a secondary consideration to the bottom line.
Third, small law firms don't benefit as much by using temps as biglaw firms do. Biglaw firms benefit by economies of scale -- farming out lots of low-end work to temp agencies for low, predictable prices. Small firms don't have the volume of work that would justify this.
Thanks 10:52 pm :)
Anybody have anything like that for NY?
Secondly, any thoughts on which is hotter, DC or NY would be appreciated.
3:41
The idea of using temps is to save money, so why would you waste time training them with new skills that they'll use in their next job. Training is reserved for permenant employees.
5:07
The savings is not achieved in the time spent training the temps, but on what they actually do after they're trained. Training temps do do projects like doc review actually takes up a very minimal portion of a project; maybe 1%, usually a lot less, of the project is taken up by training.
Are you suggesting that just because this very miniscule amount of training is essentially an "overhead" cost, that the whole idea of using temps and all the cost savings gained isn't worth it?
I've never heard that rationale before.
NO employees these days are really considered "permanent". Partners are permanent, but they're... well, partners. NO associate these days can count on his/her job being around until they make partner.
Since the idea of long-term permanent jobs has been pretty much cast aside in today's economy (including the legal profession), why not just cordon off some of the work and define it as suited for temps, and then give them just the amount of training needed for the project?
If you notice, more and more temp ads are requiring not just a JD and/or bar membership, but also PRIOR EXPERIENCE in doc review.
Maybe this is their way of not having to spend too much on training the temps.
3:42
Associates running projects might have more input in the hiring process depending on whether there are actual interviews.
I know interviews are rare, and in the past most projects just basically grabbed anyone off the street. But it has happened that I had to jump through the hoop of interviewing with a firm associate before getting onto a project. In that situation, the associate would have the ability to favor whoever they want to favor.
Though, if the past is any indication, almost all projects will get attorneys blindly assigned to them.
In many of these warehouse projects, associates interviewing is a waste of time. If you don't like who the agency is providing, don't use them anymore.
If it is a smaller type gig and the contract attorneys are going to be working on the floor of the firm, an interview is essential
A tip: any long blog comment is usually not a valuable one.
Doc review temps cannot perform the work of an associate. Period.
What the above Joan King lemmings say is, now all of a sudden, law firms will change and realize they can replace associates with doc review temps.
Good self brain-washing!
You are wrong. Law firms will wake up and realize that they can replace law firm associates with Indians. Nobody ultimately reads the shit paper briefs that biglaw pumps out anyway.
6:27 is dead-on accurate.
How's that for a short post?
Wrong.
"Nobody reads them".
Unfortunately in house counsel (who are not from the tempworld) do read and know the difference, i.e. the client, and they know doc review people are incapable of doing work, and are lazy too.
Which is why all substantive job searches say "NO DOC REVIEW ATTORNEYS."
If I am wrong, have you ever heard a temp get such a job?
Oh please. In house counsel are just trying to protect their little piece of turf within their corporations. Outside consultants are being brought in to slash costs and economize. Big law firms do nothing more then churn mountains of useless undecipherable toilet paper and produce incomprehensible dreck that the judges' clerks never even bother to read. 3/4's of the legal "industry" could be immediately eliminated or outsourced with no harm done whatsoever.
7:12 - Right again. I wouldn't say 3/4 could be eliminated, but probably 1/4 could easily vanish and there would be no real difference in terms of client services.
I am a recruiter at a major recruiting firm and we place former temp and doc review attorneys in positions with big law firms all the time. It's happening less now, in light of the cutbacks many firms are making. But very often big firms view document review work as substantive experience and exposure to the law. Let's put it this way; it's better than no experience at all, which is what many postgrad applicants have.
You people are either brainwashed or are the temp agencies themselves!
"We place temps as associates at big firms all the time...."
Sure!
I guess that the dumb partners at the big law firms are missing the great untapped talent at Hudson's temp job.
8:09 is Joan King!
9:02 PM -
Word is, that BigLaw firms send out undercover "scouts" to the big doc review projects to ferret out the best prospects for certain associate openings.
The scouts blend in at the temp jobs, posing as law firm associates, staffing agency personnel, administrative and IT workers, etc.
Their job is to find the "creme de la creme" of the temps. Once a prospect is cited, the scout gets his or her personal info from the staffing agency, and the firm sends an invitation to interview to that person.
It's absurd that anyone would even attempt such a bad troll, i.e. that Doc Review is substantive work.
We all know it is not and those that have done DR too long are just dismissed by law firms. Now, former biglaw associates find themselves for clicking dollars.
But to no avail, as the greedy corporations have outsourcing. Funny, how outsourcing ultimately did Joan King in.
Has Brooklyn Law School provided their 2008 employment stats or are they just waiting for the 2009 1L class to place deposits.
Babu brought Jaon King down! BLS and other TTTs cannot hide their grads in doc review anymore. The house of cards is falling down.
I heard that one law school in Georgia is going to offer an entire American JD degree program online, and market it to foreign citizens, particularly Indians.
Once Indian lawyers have American JDs and they can sit for state bar exams, they'll be able to practice "virtually" in the US and can be hired as "online associates" by US BigLaw firms.
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ATL S&C It's OVER
Sullivan & Cromwell has laid off between 15 and 20 associates at its New York HQ.
The firm cites performance reasons for the layoffs, which took place mostly in February. Affected associates received two months severance.
In December, cut associate salaries but promised to revisit the situation in April.
Sullivan & Cromwell has laid off between 15 and 20 associates at its New York HQ.
The firm cites performance reasons for the layoffs, which took place mostly in February. Affected associates received two months severance.
In December, S&C cut associate salaries but promised to revisit the situation in April.
S & C Lit analyst beware. AG and 45V your days I hear are #ed.
Is that wife cheating dweep still "reigning" ahhahhahahhahhahahahhahaAAAA FUCCCKKKINGhahahhahahhahhahaha I should say "LURKING"
Has it been revisited?
Haven't heard
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