Wednesday, March 25, 2009

Age Discrimination At EP Slime

Contract Attorney - Document Review (NYC)
Reply to: see below
Date: 2009-03-25, 6:38PM EDT

Governmental agency seeks Contract Attorney's for a document review starting ASAP.

Must have privilege log and concordance experience. Must be admitted in NY and in Good Standing. Graduation years between 2003-2006.

Please ONLY respond if you have ALL of the above experience.

The rate is $35 per hour.

The position begins ASAP so please send your resume to awitting@thedinegroup.com and refer in the subject line to the "Document Review" position.

We NEVER forward your resume anywhere without first obtaining your express, specific authorization.

* Location: NYC
* Compensation: $35
* Principals only. Recruiters, please don't contact this job poster.
* Please, no phone calls about this job!
* Please do not contact job poster about other services, products or commercial interests.

63 comments:

Anonymous said...

Damn- I have everything but the NY bar.

Anonymous said...

Enough with this bullshit. I am typing my letter to the EEOC as we speak. I SHOULD NOT be disqualified from this position merely because I am an older adult who is trying to put food on the table.

THOMAS said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Anonymous said...

That has nothing to do with age. It's GRADUATION YEAR. It's standard in experienced legal hiring to ask for specific class years (although it IS a little odd for a temp job). So save yourself the time and forget writing to the EEOC.

Anonymous said...

7:36 I was about to say the same thing...but I didn't feel like getting blasted.

Anonymous said...

Nothing to do with age? Are you smoking crack?

Anonymous said...

So if Dine was running a project that was cutting back and decided to let go anyone who hadn't graduated between the years of '03-'06 that wouldn't be age discrimination? What goes for the firing side of the equation goes for the hiring side as well.

Anonymous said...

To 7:38:

Suit yourself. Write your letter. Better yet, sign it "Esq". And then when they tell you that, legally, a hiring distinction based on graduation year is not discriminatory because it does not necessarily correlate with age, feel free to tell THEM they're on crack.

Also, if in their letter they ask you how you became a lawyer, don't take it personally.

Anonymous said...

Who on earth would they require classes 2002 -2006 for a doc review gig? It is beyond absurd, with no other goal than to discriminate.

End of story. They want young coders and NO foreign trained lawyers, as "classes" refer to JDs.

Anonymous said...

I AM GOING TO SUE SLIME'S ASS IN SMALL CLAIMS COURT FOR 5 GRAND. IT'S WORTH THE $25 FILING FEE. EVERYONE SHOULD DO THE SAME.

Advertising

Pay special attention to language in advertisements used to attract job candidates. The ADEA prohibits companies from publishing advertisements indicating any preference, limitation, specification, or discrimination based on age. Thus, targeted advertisements containing language such as "Industrial management trainee, recent college degree," "Sales trainee, any recent degree," "Prefer recent college grad," or "Corporate attorney, 2-4 years out of law school" are illegal.

Anonymous said...

No. It wouldn't be age discrimination as prohibited by federal law. People of all ages graduate with every graduating class. I graduated in 2001. Almost 100% of the night school attendees were over the age of 35. About 5% of the day school attendees were over this age. You would have to be able to show that it disproportionately impacted older persons of a certain age. It is annoying and obnoxious but not actionable. However, if you have free time on your hands go to it.

Anonymous said...

oh here we go again. Ignorance rains and reigns.

Anonymous said...

I HAVE ALL THE TIME IN THE WORLD. LET'S AIR SLIME'S DIRTY LAUNDRY AND THEIR ILLEGAL UNENFORCEABLE LABOR CONTRACTS IN FRONT OF THE OLD GRANDPA SIMPSON GEASER MEDIATOR.

Anonymous said...

Well the proof would be in what the ulimate makeup of the hiring pool is, no?

So if it's just a bunch of kids on the project, then yes, it would be a violation.

Capeche?

Anonymous said...

Wrong. You are excluding people from the outset purely based upon age. It doesn't matter what the ultimate makeup of the hired pool looks like.

Anonymous said...

No, that is not the proof. You would have to show that qualified persons over the age of 40 were not hired but similarly situated persons under the age of 40 were. You would have to show. You would have to show that within those graduating years, people within that age group did not graduate from law school as opposed to other years.

Anonymous said...

Which is very easy to do. Since the ad is only asking for NY admitted attorneys, it would be very easy to pull up birth dates from the attorney registry and show that people graduating between '03-'06 are overwhelmingly younger compared to other years.

Anonymous said...

Dine is "redlining" graduation years.

Anonymous said...

The last three posts have dealt with actual jobs. This is an improvement from what it's been for the past few months. Even though the wages are lower and the postings are kind of weird, at least something is happening in the market. That's an improvement from what it's been like for the past few months.

Anonymous said...

thank you 8:05...it is nice to hear a positive voice. I think it is really important to stay positive no matter how crappy everything is!!

Anonymous said...

OMG, no wonder some of you are doing doc review.

Anonymous said...

It's okay, Polyanna can click with the best of them.

Anonymous said...

actually what you need to show is either discriminatory intent OR effect. Either way that gets you a win. Having said that, the ad alone is not enough to get you a win, BUT it could be enough to get an investigation going, and then when you pop open with the illegal contract they make you sign as a term and condition of your job, AND when said job is at a government agency, well, then you just may have something cooking. E.P. Dine has been begging to get sued fro A LONG time, so maybe some do good-er out there will fuck these assholes up and take their houses.

Anonymous said...

Polyana is has a job. you probably could learn from her.

Anonymous said...

Yes, she's one of the S+C Nigerians.

Anonymous said...

well- it is true that age and class year aren't necessarily related. BUT, chances are greater number of the 03-06 graduate being young. Personally, I've noticed that older reviewers (especially the ones over 50) have a laughable work ethic and tend to spend the entire project time bitching loudly about their personal lives. It's extremely distracting and annoying. I'm sure agencies and supervisors have gotten complaints and are using this ad to ensure that those of us who do have a work ethic and leave baggage at home where it belongs are more likely to get projects, since we're the ones that deserve them.

Anonymous said...

oh, I meant 'chances are greater THAT the graduates of '03-'06 will be young.'

Anonymous said...

The ad was taken down. Where did it go?

Anonymous said...

power to the people

Anonymous said...

How many God damn people are they gonna get with those requirements anyways? Half of have not used Concordance, most of us have not worked on a privilege log, half of us are not barred in NY and the graduation date range to top that off. Is there a blood type requirement?

Anonymous said...

This proves that these projects are just looking for young nubile impressionable sheep that they can kick around. Let's keep the TTT diploma fodder mills cranking.

Anonymous said...

8:54

I have worked on a project at the client Dine represents for almost two years. The project started with 50 people; I am the only one left. I have been specifically requested for other projects. The client has assisted me in finding work. Guess what? I am over 50. It is not work ethic.

Anonymous said...

I guess they read this blog after all...

Anonymous said...

I think it is about expectations. Document reviewers from the classes they want don't remember 2002-2004 when we got catered breakfast, lunch, afternoon snack + $25.00 a day for dinner and a car home. There was also water, coffee and sodas. Anyone used to this would leave the advertised job as soon as they could. Dine is tired of the frequent turnover on these jobs.

Anonymous said...

Back in the 70's, Elaine Dine was a famous recruiter who built an enviable reputation by placing associates with major NYC law firms. Once again, the corpse of Elaine P. Dine sits up and rolls over in her grave as she watches as a future generation of scum shysters sullies her name.

Anonymous said...

9:53-

Well, of course there are going to be exceptions, for Chrissake. I'm talking about a general trend I've seen personally.

Anonymous said...

The trend is more like the younger doc reviewers often behaving like children, spending almost all of their time playing games on the internet (which is why we rarely have it anymore when we have projects)and text messaging each other. The older doc reviewers frequently are the ones with the work ethic while the younger ones behave as if they've never heard of the term and would laugh at if they did. They just bulk code and behave like infants.

Anonymous said...

Back in '95, when I worked at a defense contractor in Crystal City, Virginia, the USPTO was housed in our building (Crystal Park III) and they had a big doc review and coding crew filled with long-haired, heavy-metal-band-T-shirt-wearing stoner types, wearing Walkmans... We used to see 'em coming up on the elevators each morning, 'cause they worked a couple of floors below us.

One of my bosses nicknamed 'em the "Grunt Operation", and the name stuck.

Anonymous said...

For the most part, I have enjoyed working with the doc reviewers I've wo it.rked with, young or old. I find while some doc reviewers are losers living with their mommy, who couldn't put a brief together if their mother's life depended on it, many are interesting people, unhappy with the status quo. Many are people who got into law and realized it was not for them, and are back in school, but doc reviewing their way through. They are novelists and independent movie directors. They are mothers and fathers who realized that the amount they were being paid by law firms was insufficient for them to be away from their children. Yes, I've sat next to sexually confused, heavily obese, schitzo who are living on past glory. But seriously, all this ripping each other apart is a distraction and unnecessary.

Anonymous said...

and yes I am polyanna.

Anonymous said...

Yes, but realize the vast majority of the racist stuff is just a troll trying to stir up trouble.

Anonymous said...

10:20 Stop making ridiculous excuses for age discrimination.

Almost all of us have worked on projects with no frills. This is the kind of age discrimination that law firms have traditionally used by insisting on certain classes. The attempt to use it with doc review takes away any pretext about looking for attorneys to train from scratch to be groomed for long-term careers.

The newbies would be the first to leave doc review totally at the first chance. They don't want to get stuck doing doc review, especially now.

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Anonymous said...

Actuall, it is age discrimination under the EEOC. About 10 years ago the EEOC and NY Dept. of Labor brought an action against a New York employment agency that used to advertize jobs with glass years, i.e. 1995-2000, etc. They were successfully sued by the Dept of Labor for age discrimination, in spite of the fact that an 80 year old who went to law school could have graduated in those years. EP Dine must have gotten sloppy by posting the inclusive years. Oh well.

Anonymous said...

could you cite the case, I would like to read it and compare, thanks.

Anonymous said...

Do your own research, Dine.

Anonymous said...

robert half hiring for monday start - $20/hour - from jdu

Anonymous said...

Hmmm. That's messed up since I know people who used to get gigs there all the time who are in their late 30's and 40's. I think the rate used to be $40.hr too. WTF?! I hope someone challenges those slime balls.

Anonymous said...

Some firm just posted an ad for junior associates. Can you believe the nerve?

Anonymous said...

WHOA. I wonder of this is for a temp thing with the NYC Law Department? Wouldn't that be funy if it is and someone sues them adn Dine? How awsome would it be if the general public were to know that the NYC Law Dept. was taking part in age discrim.?

Anonymous said...

The ad was posted. The damage was done. Dine and the NYC law department clearly have a preference for younger employees. I am going to write the EEOC and my NYC counsel man about this situation. Dine has gotten away with this kind of crap for way too long.

Anonymous said...

At least some jobs are returning and the recruiters are calling people again. The wages are lower, but whatever, take what you can get at the moment.

Take a look at the posts from Febuary and March. Then people were complaining that there was no work. At least things are starting to happen again in NYC.

Hopefully, the job market is starting to improve. The advantage of temp work is that it picks up before permenant positions. Of course, the disadvantage is that is that it's the worst place to be in a bad economy.

Anonymous said...

I started in 2002 at 19.50/hr on vioxx, saw rates go to 45 + ot, then crumble. Is cyclical rate phenom normal, lifetime coders, or is this an aberration. What's the trend if cyclical - ie, does it trend up in long term?

Anonymous said...

Posted by Slime last August.


"Major international law firm has an immidiate need for document review attorneys to start an assignment early next week. You must be admitted to the NYS bar to qualify. Due to an extensive conflicts list, people with more than 6 document review projects SHOULD NOT APPLY."

No age discrimination?

Anonymous said...

Every single large law firm I've ever known has explicitly based its salary and bonuses paid precisely on the attorney's year of graduation.

Let's sue 'em all?

Anonymous said...

Jesus H. Christ, a doc review in German paying $37 an hour, I've seen it all, I've seen it all.....

Friend said...

Elaine Dine was one of the first successful "big names" among 1970s legal recruiters of the kind we now think of as traditional, mainly moving associates at a time when lateral moves were less common, and placing in-house. She was a somewhat eccentric young woman (one of several in that business) who in those days operated out of her apartment in an expensive building, so that one had to sit outside in a chair in the stairwell or hallway to await entry. Inside, one could pet her cat, if so inclined. She's probably still alive, so the reference to "corpse" above may be in error.

I don't understand why anyone would put 2003 class limit on a temp job with a fixed hourly wage. Maybe there is logic somewhere, but why wouldn't a 1970, 1980, 1990or 2000 graduate be just as good?

Anonymous said...

"Every single large law firm I've ever known has explicitly based its salary and bonuses paid precisely on the attorney's year of graduation.

Let's sue 'em all?"

This is a stupid argument. The classes are in reference to hiring of law students, beginning as summer associates. These are for permanent jobs.

To attempt to apply this perm hiring of law students to a 1 - 2 month temp project, is absurd. Not to mention that is for a govt agency and NOT a private law firm.

There's a good reason that the ad was pulled.

Anonymous said...

They are enjoying torturing us. As the world spins out of their control they can at least control something.

Anonymous said...

We are looking for several contract attorneys for a 1 month project. Must
have strong government contracts experience (Really!). Will be working with the
marketing team of large company to negotiate and close sales contracts.
Preference will be given to those with experience in contracts management
positions.

JD required, bar not necessary (Wait, at the top they were seeking several contract attorneys, wtf). DC area, not metro accessible.

Notice that there is no $/hr listed! This is probably a fake! But if you must....here is the email address
Please send emails to bsteele@legalestaffing.com

Anonymous said...

"This is a stupid argument. The classes are in reference to hiring of law students, beginning as summer associates. These are for permanent jobs."

Why so concerned over the discrimination only for the crap jobs. So it is fair class of '99 gets no job, class of '03-'06 get the crap jobs and only the younger class of '10-'11 have a shot at getting in on the good jobs?

Anonymous said...

This could possibly be a disparate impact claim under the ADEA. Such claims were made possible, but very difficult, by the US Supreme Court's decision in Smith v. City of Jackson. Disparate impact claims post-Smith are difficult because the Supreme Court indicated that the stringent "Wards Cove" standard applies, as does the ADEA's "reasonable factors other than age" requirement.

So the standard is stringent, but in this case, I think there is actually a decent chance that this ad violates the ADEA.

Anonymous said...

looking for almost a year. 2nd shifts. anything. a good one, in non-profit area appears, but won't hire anyone over 36.
this friggin sux.