Saturday, January 08, 2011

"Jolly" John Thacher Makes A Cameo

"The job is set up through a company called Peak Discovery, which put an ad on Craigslist, seeking 100 lawyers. 'We got about 300 responses overnight,' said John Thacher, who is managing the project.

Mr. Thacher has managed about 2,500 people in his six years in the temporary legal business, and maybe five of them have gone on to associate jobs in law firms, the kind of work that nearly everyone aspires to when entering law school.

“Most of us either went to the wrong law school, which is the bottom two-thirds, or we were too old when we graduated,” he said. 'I was 32 when I graduated, and at 32 you’re washed up in this field, in terms of a shot at the real deal. They perceived me as somebody they can’t indoctrinate into slave labor and work to death for seven years and then release if they don’t like you.”'"


http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/09/business/09law.html?pagewanted=6&_r=1&hp

45 comments:

Anonymous said...

Wonder if these craven cretins he speaks of made the NYT article...?

Anonymous said...

I was first made aware of the NY Times article about an hour before a thread about it on JDUnderground popped up. I tried to get a thread about it up on JDU but I am banned so I could not put it up.

Anyways, these things stand out:

-The author seems to take the words and thoughts of the so called "scam bloggers" and do a relatively well done summary or re-cap of their take on today's state of lawland affairs. I mean he just took the whole scam blogger's take, hook, line and sinker and spewed it out on the pages of The Times. I am amazed. Congrats to the so called scam bloggers on that.

-Sad to see no mention of the grand daddy of all scam bloggers....Scotty Bullock...aka L4L. He told the truth way way before the so called crash and way way before it became fashionable for top tier grads to whine about their plight in today's lawland. He told the truths when it only affected those who didn't do "everything right" and go to an ivy league school. He spoke for the O.G. tier II toileteer victims of the so called law school scam. Recent lawland lemmings...google Scott Bullock...Go read the Wall St. Journal article of Sept. 27, 2007 in which he appears.

-the Wasserstein lemming is the uber prototype of the typical lawland lemming. The extreme example or poster boy. Totally arrongant, idiotic, self entitled, likely middle class or semi priviledged douchebag.....class and prestige driven lemming douchebag. Like most of the others who thought a JD would lead them into the hallowed halls of the 'elite' He is another of the many who thought that a JD was the golden key to the land of money, poon, models, bottles and prestige.

- I am abolutely floored by the appearence and comments by the guy from Peak Discovery in the article. He must not plan on working for them much longer. With quotes like "“Most of us either went to the wrong law school, which is the bottom two-thirds, or we were too old when we graduated,” he said. “I was 32 when I graduated, and at 32 you’re washed up in this field, in terms of a shot at the real deal. They perceived me as somebody they can’t indoctrinate into slave labor and work to death for seven years and then release if they don’t like you.”

I commend his self awarness but how does Peak feel about the fact that he knows, as evidenced by the fact that he works at Peak, he is 'washed up'. The fact that he revealed to the article's author that Mr. Thacher has managed about 2,500 people in his six years in the temporary legal business, and maybe ONLY five of them have gone on to associate jobs in law firms, the kind of work that nearly everyone aspires to when entering law school....That statement is damn near revealing a trade or company secret. Peak cannot be happy that one of their underlings is stating the cold hard truth to the lemmings and he is revealing that folks like Peak are taking full advantage of the monumental mistakes most lemmings made when they decided to go to law school.

-Finally, I am still stuck that neither the article nor the so called scam bloggers barely address (other than the mention of the age issue) the rampant racism, classism, fatism, schlubism, straightism, goyism, black or white maleism, occasional sexism and over all blatant and often illegal discrimination in the "ill" legal profession. They still fail to even ponder the identity of those who cause nearly all of the misery in today's lawland. Why is law a losing game? Who are the wicked and evil devils that make it a losing game for most? Why do the devils do this? What is their agenda and motives?

Why do the scam bloggers seem to avoid getting to the heart the matter and identifying and calling out the transgessors?

Perhaps its because they had hoped or still hope to be welcomed into the hallowed halls of the transgressors.

God bless David Segal for his further mainstreaming the so- called scam blogger's efforts.

Nando said...

@9:11, aka John Bungso

Have you not followed Third Tier Reality in the last few months? I have made mention of classism, ageism, sexism and racism - and that Biglaw is typically a bastion of wealthy white men.

I have noted that law schools LIE to minorities and those of modest means, i.e. "Law school is your ticket to a better life and career. We want to be more diverse and inclusive so that YOU can take part in this great and noble enterprise."

This is simply a snow job, to put more asses in seats. John, I have mentioned these things. Some readers and commenters have stated similar things. Have you not noted the comments on class, culture (how students must adopt the upper class mannerisms taught in law school, and shed their former "selves" in order to fully buy in), and CONNECTIONS?

Anonymous said...

Hello 9:11:

Being a lawyer once insulated those of a straight WASP background from class struggles. They were comfortable and status conscious. Class has changed, but not the status. Therefore, the groups you mention can't be talked about except as scapegoats. They are lower status.

Although some bloggers admit there are economic problems (which they won't call class struggles), they do so only so far as those problems specifically and directly affect them. They deny the big picture.

Before the early 90s, white collar jobs were at full employment. The unemployment rate was so low that jobs were much easier to obtain. This is the historic truth, now myth, that legal bloggers are fighting.

When one thinks about it, legal bloggers are arguing against free market enterprise.

In free market economics, we are taught to reduce the cost of producing widgets while increasing profits. You are labor producing widgets (legal services).

To understand my argument, one must realize Big Law, essentially a multinational enterprise, is served by more law schools serves that produce cheap labor.

The common rebuttal is that we should cut student loans. If they didn't have government student loans, they would use some other tool. Private loans would be more plentiful. Bankruptcy law, which people complain do not apply to private loans, are anti-free market in principle. You don't want the government involved in private transactions. So, the conservative argument goes, which led tot he 2005 Act. Look up the Congressional record.

The response to the student loan regulations recently being tightened and cutting off certain for profit programs from obtaining federal loans has been that loan companies are now offering credit card lines as a way to finance one's education. Private actors are perfectly willing to lend students money no matter what the government does because they are not subject to the bankruptcy laws. At some point one would have to admit at least some aspect of the free market approach does not work.

Its basic business. Even if someone can not pay off their debt, you make a lot of money off their fees. Yet to ensure behavior that's better for both students, as far as lending is concerned, youwould need changes in bankruptcy laws, that are per se not free market.

From a non-conservative perspective, the real issue, which no one will discuss, is that law schools (actually all schools) cost too much. Its not just that there are too many of them. If law school were cheap (under 10k a year), would anyone care how many law schools there are?

I doubt this blog would exist if education was cheap in this country.

A cheap education means that one could obtain the degree, and not be saddled with practicing law afterwards to address the debt. One is not then a wage slave, which is the core issue.

The real issue is that enterprises want cheap labor, and the structure that we have in the legal market, appears again and again in other industries. If you want to address the problem, youhave to lok at the roots, but people don't want to do that. They want to think about "me."

Legal bloggers are making an argument from a labor movement perspective. Not a business perspective. A labor movement is about organization, which is never going to happen.

If legal bloggers are not willing to admit this, I don't see them discussing the issues of race or sexual orientation or any other intersectional classification other than to look for scapegoats.

That's expecting too much.

Anonymous said...

Nando

A large number of comments at many of the scammer blogs are very bigoted as far as using people of color, gays women, etc as scapegoats.

Anonymous said...

Does someone mean to imply that BigLaw partners actually engage in age discrimination when hiring associates? SHOCKING, I say.

Certainly, ironic, in any event, is the notion that members of a demographic commonly seen as extremely uptight, risk-averse, self-preserving, and paranoid would risk practicing such overt discrimination. But certainly understandable if it's true: terror must be maintained or the Empire is doomed. And it's oh-so-much harder for young partners to try to instill terror in older, more experienced lawyers.

I'd love to see some studies on the existence and extent of age discrimination in BigLaw. And if warranted, the ensuing lawsuits. A good start would be to compare the age distribution of law school graduates with the age distribution of first year hires.

Anonymous said...

Jolly John gets the last laugh here. He has managed to scrape through to some sort of middling management gig out of the bowels of doc review.

Now he is being passed of as an expert. The sick part, is that he is part of the rotten system and profiting off of the oversupply JDs like everyone else.

If it's not the massive oversupply of stateside attorneys, it is the explosion of outsourcing. Law is not a game for those struggling at the bottom.

Anonymous said...

Jolly John is the biggest piece of lying shit that you will ever meet. He pranced around Evelyn Louie's gig like he was king of the mountain and he wasn't even admitted at the time. He even had Evelyn, the greatest fraud in DR history fooled. Nice job, asshole. And for the record, you weren't hired into biglaw not because you were 32 at the time, but because you were a stupid piece of shit.

Anonymous said...

That scumbag Wasserstein Jew is laughing all the way to bank.

He lived high on the hog in law school and now there's no way for the banks to collect on him.

Anonymous said...

dental plan lisa cannot afford braces

RICHARD MATASAR said...

Why no mention of Richard Matasar, who serves as dean of New York Law School and chairman of Access Group student loan company AT THE SAME TIME?

Anonymous said...

Nando posits the following to the Prophet: "Have you not followed Third Tier Reality in the last few months?"

The lawland Prophet replies: Not particularly. I have noticed people complaining about the toilet and doo doo photos that you publish in your reviews of various toilety law schools. I don't know why they complain bout that. That's the funniest and bestus part of your page.

I do respect your research and compilation of statistics regarding toilet school job and tuition numbers. But those numbers tell me nothing new.

If you have finally started to slightly and partially identify those who make lawland a living hell for most...then I say...god bless....its about time. Perhaps some of my call outs in the past pushed you a bit to get to the heart of the matter.

I am not so interested in the schools' behavior as I am the devilish behavior of those who run the legal work place. You still don't call them all out. Just a portion. But at least you are begrudgingly getting there.

Anonymous said...

Jolly John didn’t pull the wool over Evelyn’s eyes at De Novo, which is why he was canned. He is inept, a goof and, worst of all, a liar. The guy can lie to your face with the sincerest tone and never flinch. He is a sleazy, low-class liar, covertly hostile and domineering with a grandiose sense of himself. A classic sociopath.

Those lies allowed him to smooth talk his way into a sales job with Peak, but Jolly John hasn’t made a sale. His incompetence and lies will eventually catch up with him. Peak will dump him and he will move on to another new start up company where he can BS his way in. Jolly John, the “bottomfeeder” will stay a “bottomfeeder,” which is precisely where failures and fakes belong.

Anonymous said...

Not only did Jolly John go to a third tier law school and graduate at 32, but he conveniently failed to tell the NY Times reporter he was disciplined not once, but twice by the CT bar. He is a pathetic excuse for a lawyer. He is the type of trash that lowers the entire profession.

Jolly John is so full of himself that he never stops talking, which is torturous given his extremely foul breath. When not polluting the air, his short, fat, stubby fingers are texting, not coding. And what’s with Peak? They must have been desperate to hire such a disgusting asshole.

Anonymous said...

Since when is a NY Times Reporter allowed at doc review? And taking pictures at that! Don’t know about Peak, but every review I have worked on has strict confidentiality agreements between the client and slave labor.

Peak pays its slaves $25 an hour plus a bonus. Oh, sure! Who decides the bonus? Is it after John deducts all his snacks to feed his rotund physique? Is it after he rewards a few favorites, like the cute chicks, or his fav buddy? Or is it after he and his favs load on the hours? Guarantee, if a bonus is paid to the slaves, it is after John has sucked out the majority as a bonus to himself.

selling my jd said...

John is remembered fondly back here in his homeland (re: Connecticut).. his speaking the truth should be respected by the document review community..

Anonymous said...

One common thread between all the blogs concerning law schools in the usa are:

1. I wish I hadn't gone to law school because I can't find a job.

2. The people who claim they can't find jobs refuse to look anywhere outside of "their preferred region or city."

There are plenty of legal jobs in the USA. Unfortunately they just don't exist in Downtown Chicago, Downtown LA, Downtown San Francisco, Washington DC, NYC, or Boston.

There are plenty of legal jobs in places like Nebraska, central Florida, Downstate Illinois, Missouri, Idaho, etc..

Instead of wasting time working at temp agencies, you would be better off moving to the middle of nowhere, getting a legal job gaining real experience, then moving back to your preferred location after establishing your resume and experience.

Anonymous said...

5:45 - I disagree. I have lived in 2 places in rural America since graduating from a high T1 and I have not been able to locate a legal job. I have now decided to go into a completely different field and it didn't take me long at all to get work, even in my rural town - AMAZING! You might say it's just me as I'm a "loser" who can't find a legal job or something but I know plenty of people here in town who are in the same boat. We have a regional T1 school here in the area that you used to be able to go to and get a job with no problem but that isn't even true anymore. I went to a great school and did pretty well and still can't find a law job. I have interviewed with sh!tlaw outfits in small towns but I promise what they're paying won't support you even out here. You could hang your shingle and join the other schlubs at the local bar meeting to hand out your cards and beg for referrals. Law school is a losing proposition all the way around whether you live in a big city, a small town, the suburbs, or in short - ANYWHERE!

Anonymous said...

I worked for Peak Counsel on one project. It was one of the worst projects I have worked. Peak Counsel and its metrics - what a joke. Thacher is a poor manager.

As far as one poster just wrote - 5 people out of the 2,500 people Thacher managed went onto become associates. Are you sure they became associates b/c I've only heard of some temp/contract attorneys becoming staff attorneys who run the doc review teams. These folks will never become associates a these big firms. Most people I talk with and have worked with know this, so I don't think too many people think that he's revealing a company. It's common knowledge.

Anonymous said...

Peak is the BOTTOM OF THE BARREL of an awful industry.

EP Dine low balls on rates to get jobs but cannot be outdone by Peak, which will get you a shit of shit job in Shitdown.

Peak does not even get jobs in the city.... it will send you to rural Connecticut or the middle of nowhere (car required).

Helene Diamond the wicked witch of west of the temp industry.

The B word comes to mind when I think of her ugly face.

BasiaBernstein said...

When I was at BPP studying my law degree the, vast, majority of my class at Holborn had TCs. I can't speak for Waterloo though, didn't know anyone over there but did here that the situation was almost the opposite. Really strange.

Anonymous said...

Aw, I dealt with John Thacher a few years ago and he was very nice. Although when I called to complain about the cockroach infested environment I was working at he was suddenly no where to be found. Good to know he's alive and kicking!

I've also dealt with Peak, and they were decent, but I have only worked offsite for them.

Anonymous said...

I always say that the biggest beneficiaries of law schools are NEVER the law graduates, but the law firms and other employers of law graduates.

Another beneficiary of law schools is the faculty and the administration running the law schools.

In this capitalistic society, why would the law school industry in general make the law graduates the biggest beneficiaries, when the people running the law industry are law firms, employers of law graduates, and the faculty??

As a corollary, college education in the US mainly benefits corporate America, who are the employers of college graduates. Education in America produces workers for corporate America, not citizens for the society.

Anonymous said...

"Finally, I am still stuck that neither the article nor the so called scam bloggers barely address (other than the mention of the age issue) the rampant racism, classism, fatism, schlubism, straightism, goyism, black or white maleism, occasional sexism and over all blatant and often illegal discrimination in the "ill" legal profession. They still fail to even ponder the identity of those who cause nearly all of the misery in today's lawland."

Are you high? Most of the scambloggers, including your beloved Scotty Bullock, expected to take their god-given place among those who cause nearly all of the misery in today's lawland. They only got mad when they realized that THEY were regarded with the same contempt by the legal elite as the rest of the mud people. That's a big part of why the scambloggers continue to face an indifferent or hostile public--the realization that their only REAL problem with the legal profession is that it has excluded THEM.

Anonymous said...

Wow. The poster above almost made me think that I posted their post.

Almost like if said poster lifted one of my earlier diatribes from many, many years ago, perhaps 4 or 5 years ago, calling the beloved Scotty out on the fact that he once wanted to be one of the elite and that he only spoke out when he realized that the elite looked at him as a mudperson.

Though the great one may have had that particular beef with the likes of Scotty, the great one still felt like Scotty was and is performing a great service. Over time Scotty did occasionally mention who his 'cheap' bosses were when describing his life in doo doo law. He then went out of his way to not describe them so much but he still got his valid points out with a wonderfully creative flair.

But, as far as the 'Johnny come lately' types in the scam blog movement, it seems that they are loath to identify the evil doers, the exploiters or discuss the vile things that often go on in the so-called 'practice' of law. They seem very preoccupied with the behavior of the faceless institutions known as law schools.

The poster who wrote "I always say that the biggest beneficiaries of law schools are NEVER the law graduates, but the law firms and other employers of law graduates."......NAILS IT! The wickedness all comes from the top down, not the other way around.

Honestly, its all been pretty much proven by now....law, for most, really is for losers...If you are not a member of a Priviledged, Protected and or Connected class you are most likely screwed in law and there really isn't much else to say about it.

Anonymous said...

Unaccredited Law Student, former Cooley Kid, starting my own unaccredited Scam Blog, need help. Here is my first post. Would love a link, and your thoughts on how I can improve. You are one of my hero's! Keep fighting the ABA man!


http://abanoway.wordpress.com/category/uncategorized/

Anonymous said...

Unaccredited Law Student, former Cooley Kid, starting my own unaccredited Scam Blog, need help. Here is my first post. Would love a link, and your thoughts on how I can improve. You are one of my hero's! Keep fighting the ABA man!


http://abanoway.wordpress.com/category/uncategorized/

Mesothelioma Litigation said...

Sometimes lawyers get disappointed on the things if it hurts them. But then it is still on the process of letting things go. Lawyers sometimes can't get rid of the issues which have been thrown to them, but still they stand still. And being a professional they don’t let things down them.

wholesale cellular accessories said...

Good for John Thacher because he was able to make it. And indeed he was a great lawyer. I have read some information about Jolly, and it was inspirational.

herve leger dress said...

Thanks for sharing!

nancy said...

I was following nytimes and the point and for Scotty told it much before it about what it happen to be Overland Park dui attorney

Drucker John said...

Your blog provided us valuable information to work on. You have done a marvelous job!

dui lawyer orange county

Anonymous said...

All of these temp agencies and their clients are violating the NYS wage and hour laws. Document reviewers need to get together and hire a militant employee's rights law firm to pursue both complaints to relevant agencies and class action suits (where fees may be recoverable from the proceeds). Also, it is time for a document reviewers’ union and strike action across the board with all agencies and their sweatshop clients.

Pop Neo said...

Furthermore, Using the power on the internet in this period, progressively green cocktail dresses more British isles bridal gowns vendors generate their own matter on the planet extensive net.
We offer wedding dresses, bridesmaid dresses, beach wedding dresses,my friends welcome to visit and see!
wedding dresses

dogexpertus said...

Great post but i am a Dog bite expert witness and we help dog and cats owners solve a wide variety of behavioral problems, ranging from territorial and dominance aggression in dogs to litter box problems and compulsive disorders in cats.
dog bite expert witness

HN Saumya said...

Great post Heckenberg Lawyers firm specializes in disputed will cases, contested deceased estates, as well as divorce, de facto relationships, family law and conveyancing.

Estate Litigation Lawyers Sydney

Dorthy Packer said...

Great blog post! I loved reading this article and learned some great information. It's great that schools are supporting law students and helping them cross the bar. Do you know of any great attorneys in olympia wa? Thank you for your help.

Andi Anderson said...

I truly like to reading your post. Thank you so much for taking the time to share such a nice information.
Jersey Laws

empregosrj said...

All the contents you mentioned in post is too good and can be very useful. I will keep it in mind, thanks for sharing the information. Keep updating, looking forward for more posts. here are amazing information.

electronic cigarette starter kit said...

Great Blog!!! thanks for your nice efforts... this information is very useful for me. update us more...

Pelham Window said...

All the contents you mentioned in post is too good and can be very useful. I will keep it in mind, thanks for sharing the information. Keep updating, looking forward for more posts. here are amazing information.

Pipe Bending said...

Great post! I really appreciate that you have made the post available , and the rest of this site is also in a high quality.

Also Visit:
Angle Rolling
Plate Rolling

Nadehasan said...

Great Job,That law school supports very well..Thanks for offering this post..family lawyer fairfax

Majid Vijah said...


Dear sir/madam, We offer our Loans to our clients In ($)USD, (£)GBP, (€)Euro, India Rupees or Singapore Dollars($) and in the following categories. Personal Loan, Real Estate Loan, Business Loan, and others. Contact us Via email:(majidvijahlending@gmail.com)

LOAN APPLICATION FORM.

(1)Full Name:
(2)Country:
(3)State:
(4)Address:
(5)Sex:
(6)Occupation:
(7)Amount needed:
(8)Loan duration:
(9)Loan purpose:
(10)Telephone

Email Us:(majidvijahlending@gmail.com)

Majid Vijah said...


Dear sir/madam, We offer our Loans to our clients In ($)USD, (£)GBP, (€)Euro, India Rupees or Singapore Dollars($) and in the following categories. Personal Loan, Real Estate Loan, Business Loan, and others. Contact us Via email:(majidvijahlending@gmail.com)

LOAN APPLICATION FORM.

(1)Full Name:
(2)Country:
(3)State:
(4)Address:
(5)Sex:
(6)Occupation:
(7)Amount needed:
(8)Loan duration:
(9)Loan purpose:
(10)Telephone

Email Us:(majidvijahlending@gmail.com)