"Dean Hiram Chodosh
Dean Reyes Aguilar
S.J. Quinney College of Law
University of Utah
332 S. 1400 E., Room 101
Salt Lake City , UT 84112
Dear Reyes and Hiram,
Gentlemen, on your school’s materials, it states that 98% of graduates from the Class of 2008 were employed within 9 months of graduation. And, according to the representatives from your school, this is based off of 100% response rate to the graduate survey.
The same material also claims that the median starting salary is $89,021 for the Class of 2008. Is this counting private and public employers? Is this also counting those graduates who are working in non-law positions? Does this median figure include those working as retail and insurance salespeople, school teachers, clerks, and research assistants?
Lastly, the school lists a starting salary range of $42,000-$215,000. So, does this mean that not one single graduate from 2008 found a job making less than $42,000? I find this incredibly hard to believe – isn’t there a large oversupply of lawyers and JDs in the U.S. ? Since your school publishes and presents these figures to attract more applicants, would you be willing to submit these figures to an outside, independent audit?"
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32 comments:
Law students should be smart enough to doubt such employment claims. It's pretty much common knowledge (even for non-lawyers) that the legal job market is tough, and that being a lawyer in general is not what it used to be. So writing a letter to a law school dean strikes me as just plain silly.
When is Matasar going to be arrested for dumping toxic collateralized debt into the ABS market while raising tuition to the umpteenth degree through his fraudulent career stats?
I don't get it - what is this kid whining about? It's the economy stupid - people from Harvard are not getting jobs let alone students from Fucksville, Utah. And you want to be a lawyer????
I NEVER believed school claims. I always knew that no matter where I graduated from - Harvard, Yale, wherever - I would still have to just bust my hump everyday, suck dick and just GET OUT AND DO IT!! Who are these people who are just laying back and saying oh well you said in this brochure, and how come I am not employed. A lot of people told me a lot of things - it doesn't pay your rent or feed your kids.
They're not questioning the job market, but rather the schools employments statistics.
This person is not whining just asking for an explanation of how the school devised their numbers.
Is that too much to ask?
Enough with the boring griping...let's get one with the gossip...whatzzzzz going on??? What's the latest juice on the temp world...??? Are there any projects, any new hos on the recruiter block???
2:36. Yeah, ok, that makes sense.
My law school reported 100% employment for the 08 class as well, despite my explicitly telling them I was unemployed. And the beat goes on...
2:37, hi matasar!
Well my law school told me that the job market and life in general would be all sunshine and roses and that I would find pretty rainbow colored lollipops under my pillow every morning...
Let's all stop whining and face reality. The legal profession sucks even when you're employed.
I am on anti-psychotic medicines right now so my life is: "sunshine and roses" and I do find "rainbow colored lollipops under my pillow every morning..."
I am not sane - but life is good.....
Also when I look in the mirror instead of seeing a broke unemployed homeless person - I see an incredibly handsome and smart devil.....lalalalalalalalalalalal
This is such a stupid video - what are you 16 and in high school??? Plus those chicks are ugly.
Another Project!
Hi,
We just got a new 1 month project definitely starting THIS Wednesday in Newark NJ, easy commute from the city and walking distance from the train station, major financial firm. Please let me know ASAP if you are interested and available, will be submitting resumes in the next hour or two. Must clear Conflicts first, please call or email me if you are available and I'll read off the conflicts list. Please let me know also, if you know the software program EED.
Payrate is 30/hr straight time.
EACH ATTORNEY MUST BE ABLE:
1. To commit to the entire project. Currently, the project deadline is the end of December, be able to commit to work until mid-January.
2. Be able to work late evenings and possibly on weekends (there is no overtime pay), it will be straight time.
3. Be able to work throughout the holidays, except for Christmas Day and New Year's Day.
Thank you!
Best Regards,
Sara Kim
Sr. Dir. of Legal Recruiting
Tel: (212) 265-1400 x206
Fax: (212) 265-1441
skim@yorkson.com
Yorkson Legal, Inc.
Legal Staffing & Recruiting
136 East 57th Street
Suite 1201 (12th floor)
New York, NY 10022
www.yorkson.com
Exactly how many times are we going to play the "waahhhh, all of my life's problems are the Dean's fault" game on this blog?
While I agree with the general premise of the letter, I have a few observations:
1) The letter is called "angry", but doesn't seem angry at all. Critical, perhaps, but not angry.
2) It is reasonable to expect that $42,000 might be the lowest starting salary of a University of Utah graduate. The Utah legal market is pretty small, but the smallest firms in Utah (aka "shitlaw" firms), which would be paying on the low end of the scale, are probably disproportionately in better financial condition than shitlaw firms in other parts of the country, where legal job markets are tighter and not dominated by Mormons, who tend to be very good with money. Remember also that since Utah is a small and insular market, the relatively few people who take and pass the Utah Bar exam have less competition from outside.
3) Even though the University of Utah is nowhere near Top 20 and I think is a 2nd Tier School, at least it is connected with a state university, so at least the school has some credibility, unlike schools which are brazenly mercantile diploma mills, like NYLS and BLS, which were set up exclusively to make money for their founders, and provide cushy professorial jobs for a small coterie of greedy lawyers with academic pretensions.
Don't worry everyone. Valvina was NOT at Tiger's house over the weekend. Valvina would be far more likely to slash your tires than lodge a golf club through your rear window.
True - Valvina the para tranny would have bashed the entire car as well as Tiger's big head. This bitch don't play....uuuuuuuhuh
Personally I feel Tom the Temp should go back to posting original comments like the golden oldies -- he is sooooo good at that. His writing and observations on Templand really crack me up and that is why I have been a huge fan of his blog.
These letters do serve a purpose - I am glad someone is challenging fat corrupt deans - but it just gets a little boring - and in these dark dreary days life is boring and depressing enough. Anyhoo.....
To Sara Kim:
Not sure if you are who you say you are, however, it is unlawful in the state of New Jersey to fail to pay overtime beyond 40 hours. As I am an attorney who peruses this site on occasion, and have several colleagues both at the NJAG and U.S. Attorney's Office in the District of NJ, I'd suggest you expect a phone call.
This is not an idle threat.
No wonder some of you are temps for life, if you tried to blatantly lie in court like the law schools do about statistics you wouldn't be able to get away with "but everybody knows," you'd get busted on perjury charges at the very least.
To the "Stop Whining Crowd":
I agree. Law schools should be free to publish whatever lies and half-truths they please, without any repercussions, legal or otherwise. Caveat emptor, Baby! Haha, Suckers!!
Even crummy infomercials need to disclaim that their "results aren't typical". When the awful employment and salary figures come out for the class of 2009, I wonder if the schools will own up to them, or if they'll continue along claiming the average graduate will be rolling in the dough.
"Never apologize, never explain" is the law school administrator's motto.
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I marked "unemployed" on my school's post grad employment survey card. Yet, they counted me as employed in their stats.
***
I don't think that we should "blow off" these numbers. It seems to be a systemic problem beyond Law Schools. A local TV reporter had a story of a local trade school counting its construction grads working in Wendys as employed. Susie Orman talked about the inflated numbers of Culinary school grads. The fact that these schools are bothering to fudge the numbers shows they mean something to perspective students.
I just remember my college roommate from Japan always getting letters from his University in Tokyo asking what is he doing and where is he working. The most I got from my Law School or Undergrad was a "please give cash" note.
Somebody should take this story to the TV news....20/20 or local news or Chris Hanson...oh wait he's the dude who catches predators - no, not him....
I don't think 2009 will be that much worse than 2008, the legal market has been really bad for awhile now.
It is indeed systemic however. Paying for higher education is always a bad idea because of how uncertain it all is, that's why state schools, IVYs or full scholarships are generally the way to go for undergrad, and it is very similar for law except there really aren't many decent choices for most people.
The "don't whine crowd" are just retards that are full of it, ignore them. These people are on here all day just trying to troll everyone else. They will still be here when the economy improves too.
still enrollment is UP not down at most law schools. If there's no alternative, kids go to law schools with puppy dog eyes and BIGLAW dreams. I dont think ive ever met a law student in his/her first year who DIDNT think they were going to make over $100K per yer. Truth is, the OVERWHELMING supermajority of them will make UNDER $50K and many of them, nothing.
9:23 If you really are an attorney you are not a very good one. Lawyers are considered exempt from overtime under FLSA and New Jersey labor laws.
http://alleducationmatters.blogspot.com/2009/12/why-is-23k-magic-number.html
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