Saturday, April 25, 2009

Joan King Did It Again, Allegedly

"As many of our readers noted, Brooklyn’s part-time program was missing from the new Part-Time Rankings. Our readers further claimed that Brooklyn’s LSAT spread did not match up to the school’s combined program LSAT spread.

Our readers were correct. The LSAT spread found on the US News Rankings (162-165) matches the full-time spread found on the Brooklyn Law website (162-165). It does not look like the part-time spread (158-160) was factored into the new rankings. According to the latest LSAC data sheet, Brooklyn’s full-program LSAT spread should have been 159-164.

Currently, Brooklyn is sharing the 61 spot with a cluster of other schools. A one or two point shift in their overall score would drop the school 5-10 places in the rankings.

So, did Brooklyn game the rankings by not including their part-time program for consideration? Probably. We emailed every dean listed on the Brooklyn website; we will update this post if any respond."

I am sure this is all one big misunderstanding. The administration at BLS would never submit fraudulent US News stats, even though Joan King won last year's Beastly Behavior Award on this very blog for submitting skewed post-graduate career stats to US News just two years ago. Swindling law schools, indeed!


Anonymous said...

Joan, you disappoint us greatly with your spreadsheet games and you overpaid salary. The end is near for you Joan - you lied and sacrificed the financial well being of the kids who relied upon you.

Here come the torches and pitchforks, joan. You best leave the village.

Anonymous said...

hey fuk you omar!!!!!!!! I'm pregannat u prick!

Anonymous said...

What would you do if your husband got another lady pregnant while at work?

MariannaBLS said...

"Hi, Joan King!"

Anonymous said...

I would really like to see an article that explores the relationship between school officials and lenders. Brooklyn Law School has been under investigation for student loan fraud, and its my understanding that the dean of New York Law school is also on the board of directors of Access lenders.
I really think that the best way to get these people is to explore this and then bring them into court, either through teh attorney generals offices or maybe even the FTC. That's my two cents anyway.

Anonymous said...

maybe we should link this stuff to teh blog consumerist, they are always breaking stories like this.

Anonymous said...

The attorney general's office? Are you kidding? Joan King's number 2 in the Career Center is Camille Chin-Kee-Fatt who used to be the Director of Legal Recruitment in the NYS attorney general office. Good luck with that.

Anonymous said...

Couldn't you guys file an ethical complaint against some of these deans? Surely, Matasar and Joan King are licensed attorneys. I really don't see any difference between marketing legal services and marketing a legal education. The Model Rules clearly state that a lawyer cannot make statements which are false, deceptive or misleading. I am sure if it came to that they would try to hide behind that dummy NALP corporation that the law schools set up to shield themselves from liability.

Anonymous said...

Check out Matasar at 01:20.

The man looks like a total sleazebag. I wouldn't even buy a used Toyota from this guy let alone handing over this scumbag 150K.

Anonymous said...

It would be interesting what would happen to the entering class if the school plunged in the ratings due to fraud or even just oversight.

The roof might be getting ripped off the BLS Ponzi scheme, at long last.

Anonymous said...

Is Brooklyn Law School a Ponzi Scheme?

April 23, 2009

New York, NY - I guess it shouldn’t be that big of a surprise that Brooklyn Law School (BLS) managed to game the rankings this year, considering its recent unflattering association with world-class crook Bernie Madoff. It is a bit ironic that it is the first year that the rankings were supposed to fix the “loop holes” and make things transparent and yet another gaming controversy is born. Can the people at USNews do anything right? Or, maybe, we consumers are too critical and we should accept the rankings as they are, despite all the flaws?

I, personally, tend to lean toward the former notion. Regardless of whose fault this discrepancy is, most would agree that someone must answer for it. Otherwise, it would be inherently unfair to the rest of the schools which saw significant drops this year because of the new ranking methodology. Since the release of the rankings yesterday, several proactive bloggers have taken on the task of contacting USNews as well as the BLS administration attempting to elicit information regarding the source of this flaw. I suspect that formal statements will be issued claiming this to be nothing more than an “honest mistake”. Well, we all know which end of the horse a statement like that will come from.

Ponzi Scheme?

There is, perhaps, a much bigger issue here, lying dormant underneath the surface. Even with its new ranking at 61, but with an equally new price tag of about $180,000, a BLS degree does seem to be somewhat overrated. The problem is that, despite its newly acquired ranking and its recent publicity campaign showing BLS graduates landing top legal positions, in actuality, job prospects have been quite dim. Some BLS alumni have been whistleblowing on the internet. It turns out, according to, that the administration at BLS has been hiding a big secret: BLS students are simply not finding jobs. In fact, the administration had recently issued a plea to their alumni community to combat this problem. Of course, this could merely be the result of the economic recession but why, then, does the school continue to publicize such great career prospects. Could it be that the school’s administration is desperate?

This is certainly not the first time that I have heard such accusations about BLS. Earlier this year, I remember reading…[section omitted]...

I really doubt that Brooklyn Law School had anything to gain by gaming the rankings this year. In effect, if it turns out it was anything else but a mistake, the strategy has clearly backfired. I mean, it was not all that difficult to notice BLS’ absence in the part-time rankings. Perhaps, the school would have fared better if this year it would have fallen in the rankings, in which case it would have incentive to develop a new strategy for improving its performance. As to the question whether or not Brooklyn Law School is a dreaded “Tier 3 institution” masked as a borderline “Tier 1 institution,” this is clearly debatable. But, with the economy in shambles and its students dishing out the big bucks, the operation seems eerily more similar to the workings of a Ponzi scheme rather than that of a law school. Needless to say, if this is the case, we all know how that is bound it end up, indeed, all too well.

Anonymous said...

Blatant age discrimination on Craig's List...

attorney wanted (staten island)

Reply to: [Errors when replying to ads?]
Date: 2009-04-25, 7:15PM EDT

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•Location: staten island
•Compensation: contingency basis
•Principals only. Recruiters, please don't contact this job poster.
•Phone calls about this job are ok.
•Please do not contact job poster about other services, products or commercial interests.

Anonymous said...

Is this another post about nigger law schools? We have our doc reviews in DC riddled with ignorant Howard law grads, I'm sorry my brothers in NYC have to put up with our bros that can't handle a diverse world too.

Back to coding (24 hour shop, nice OT for a few weeks).

Anonymous said...

You won't beat Joan King or BLS since the ABA is behind them 100%.

The ABA is fundamentally opposed to the honest, non BigLaw associate, hard-working, everyday lawyer and JD.

The evidence is overwhelming.

Look at the their support of BigLaw, support of outsourcing document review, giving BigLaw and its Fortune 500 cohorts license to steal from hard-working lawyers, letting the law schools run amok, burying their heads in the sand when the issue of fraudulent employment statistics comes up, allowing more and more new "ABA" approved law school charters, when this country is overrun with law grads.

If this were France they would have declared the ABA a criminal organization, burned down their headquarters and threatened to dust off the guillotines.

But we're a bunch of pussies who won't do anything about it, as we continue to be steamrolled by the
ABA, BigLaw and American Big Business.

Anonymous said...

If BLS were a publicly traded company, the dean would never even have tried to pull this stunt. She would have been carted away so fast she wouldn't even known what had hit her. Since higher education instiutions are "non for profits" (chuckle) and bastions of liberalism, they can do no wrong, and are subject to virtually no regulation or oversight.

Anonymous said...

Yikes, roach boy is back and he's as racist as ever.

Anonymous said...

Nothing is a bigger scam as TOURO LAW. This major piece of crap school has some nerve charging what they charge. They have a "special ed" faculty non of which have ANY clue about being a successful lawyer in America.

Anonymous said...

all I can think of when I read these posts is that song Burn baby burn........

Anonymous said...

You mean, "Disco Inferno"? I think working temp is a lot like being in a disco at 6 am. Good point!

Anonymous said...

If BLS is not strictly a Ponzi scheme per se, it is definitely ponzoid.

Anonymous said...

The reason schools like BLS and Touro stand out as particularly fraudulent in their promises is that they are low-end law schools in NYC, one of the most highly-populated and professionally competitive regions of the country.

In Greater NYC, there are just too many white, overprivileged kids who are not particularly academically gifted, but who are indoctrinated with a competitive mindset that says they have to be some kind of "professional" -- either a doctor, lawyer, financial analyst, MBA, etc. This is true simply because of the dense population of the Greater NYC area, and the fact that Wall St. and big corporations are located there.

Through the course of generations, certain white ethnic groups, particularly Jews, but also Italians, Irish, have been indoctrinated that if they want to enjoy the benefits of the established "WASP" culture of money and comfortable lifestyles, they have to pursue the aforementioned professions.

This mindset has even trickled down to some in the African-American and Hispanic communities of late, albeit in a much more attenuated way.

Thus, there is extremely fierce competition for slots in the top law schools (Columbia, NYU), and the "decent" mid-range law schools (Fordham, etc.)

This means that a lot of really underqualified people in this large population pool -- i.e., the academic dregs -- will coalesce in the ranks of the "Bottom Feeder" schools like BLS and Touro.

Of course, since they're still in the NYC Metro area, miracles do happen, simply by way of geographic proximity. Occasionally, top students or those with connections coming out of these "Bottom Feeder" schools *do* make it into the ranks of Biglaw firms.

Whenever this happens, the B.F. schools trumpet these events to an insane degree, hoping to capitalize on them and milk them for marketing and PR to the Nth degree -- all to perpetuate the myth that a degree from these schools is really worth anything, and the myth that "You, Too" can get a good job coming out of one of these schools.

But in reality, it's all marketing hype -- it's all anecdotal. The VAST MAJORITY of graduates from these Bottom Feeder schools get nowhere fast, but still owe mad bills for ridiculous student loans. After graduation, they may be hobbled by these debts like as if a chain connected to a 1,000 lb. lead weight were permanently affixed to their ankle.

So of course all these legions of people scammed by the Bottom Feeder schools are bitter. I would be, too.

Anonymous said...

2:57 is right. You have a greater chance of being hit with an asteroid than being hired as an associate with a BigLaw firm (or even a decent midsize firm), if you're a graduate of a TTT school in the NYC area.

Anonymous said...

What about 2:57's logic: the "victims" are underprepared, intellectually average priviliged 25-30 year old adolescents who were set up by their families and communities to fail anyway.

Why do they blame the institutions that exist just because they (and many more) are ready, willing, not doing any research for the long term, and certainly not even considering the debt they are racking up?

Anonymous said...

Come on people, BLS grads CAN CAN CAN land that BigLaw associate position in the Big Apple.

All you need to do is network.

That's what Joan King told me to do, and it worked for me.

For example, lets say you want to work at DLA Piper, $160K a year ain't bad right? All you need to do is figure out what department you want to work for, call one of Partners and ask him if he wants to play golf on a Saturday at Winged Foot. (He will certainly be a member there if he's any kind of WASP.) Then let him beat you by a few strokes and when its time for drinks tell him, "I say my good man, would you happen to be hiring at Piper, I happen to be a lawyer." He will obviously be so impressed by your networking prowess that you will be offered a position on the spot and another free round at Winged Foot.

Don't forget your white shoes as well.

Anonymous said...

Thanks for all the deep sociological insights, but keep it simple please. The deans are submitting FRAUDULENT numbers.

Anonymous said...


Yes, that'll get you hired at DLA Piper.

And when they ask you what law school you graduated from, and it was Brooklyn, mumble the word "Brooklyn" really fast under your breath, like you're concentrating on your putt or something.

Partner: "So, from what school did you graduate, old boy?"

You (mumbling, garbled voice): "Brrkllluhh"

Partner: "Oh, a liberal West Coast boy, eh? Free speech, peace demonstrations, civil rights laws, campus protesting, Nancy Pelosi and all that?"

You (still mumbling): "yyahehh..."

Partner: "A bit left of the train tracks for my tastes, old boy, but a storied institution of higher learning nonetheless... How does $180K, plus a week every six months at the firm's palazzo in Aruba, to recharge the old batteries, sound?"

You (mumbling): "i'll TAKE ittttahh..."

Anonymous said...

Joan is the type of person who would do or say anything........Touro is a shithouse. Better burn your $200,000 and save the time. You won't get a job in Mickey D's after Touro.

Anonymous said...

Peeps with toilet-level LSATs should get their a$$holes over to the University of the District of Columbia's David A. Clarke School of Law.

Unlike certain hellholes which are just shoddy store-front "law schools" not connected to legit universities, UDC's law school is connected to a real university.

OK, so UDC ain't got a lot of what Buggs Bunny used to call "prestidgy", but it's a whole lot better than graduating your ass from one of those crappy Spaghetti-Western movie set schools...

Anonymous said...

Oh good!
Thanks for the advice!
I'll run over and sign up to spend $200k on a "Juris Doctorate" at University of District Columbia law school (thanks for telling me about it, since I never heard about this great place before - even BLS and Touro people have heard about).
Granted the J.D. (a bachelor degree) is a bullshit piece of paper, but better to get it from "UDC".

Anonymous said...

I'm just sayin' I pity the fools who sign up to attend one of them phony law schools that aren't connected to an accredited university.

Whether it's BLS, Touro, or even "New York Law", these are just store-front schools, put up by a bunch of lazy-ass Ivy League law school grads who want a cushy tenured job, with big donations from wealthy parents to launch the school... like "Ave Maria" in Michigan...

You have to ask yourself, why aren't there so many stand-alone schools for degrees in Biology, Math, Physics, Engineering, Social Work or Political Science?

Why just law????

The reason is because law is a sought-after profession... too many people want the "prestige" of saying they're a lawyer.... even if it means going to a crappy, or a phony "law school" that was just set up as a mill, to take people's money.

Anonymous said...

Joan King is responsible for the latest outbreak of swine flu.

Anonymous said...

How is it that so many people on this blog even know who the hell joan king is... is everyone here from Brooklyn Law except me?

Fuck all you new yorkers and your stupid competitive bullshit... anyone who goes to Brooklyn Law deserves to get paid shit... not because of joan king but just because you made a stupid choice going there in the first place.

That's just my 2 cents...

Anonymous said...

I disagree with 2:57 regarding the assertion that "a lot of really underqualified people in this large population pool -- i.e., the academic dregs -- will coalesce in the ranks of the "Bottom Feeder" schools like BLS and Touro." Every year BLS students have higher LSAT and GPA scores than the students at comparably ranked schools anywhere else in the country. The school may be ranked firmly in the second tier, but it consistently attracts first tier caliber students. Isn't a 163 on the LSAT pretty close to the top 10% nationally?

The problem is not that there are too many underqualified lawyers in New York, but that there are too many well qualified lawyers. The market is saturated not only with talented lawyers from first rate local schools like NYU and Columbia, but from every other good school in the country too.

I didn't go to BLS and don't have any association with the school. I just don't think there's any reason to dump on its students.

Anonymous said...

10:59 you are correct to a ceratin degree but one thing I would add, the reason Brooklyn Law school attracts some 1st tier students is because they give them a full ride scholarship and housing as well. About 10% of the class goes for free, and the rest of the class pays for them.
Then BLS turns around and shows off those 10% to attract the 90% of the next class as an example of "how competitive Brooklyn Law School is"
This really is Bernie Madoff type of stuff.

Anonymous said...

BLS = overpriced, shitstain dump. They can try and pretty it up all they like, but it's still the 5th or 6th best law school in NYC. Not much of a selling point.

They do lure a few unsuspecting overqualified kids with scholarships, but it's usually a life crushing mistake to stoop to Brooklyn if you get into a T13.

Anonymous said...

10:59 AM is the perfect dupe to be in the legal profession. He is the stoodge the law schools are looking for. He says how many qualified people are in the legal profession and how good BLS is blah,blah,blah.... but of course he didn't go there. Yes I am dumping on the students in part, for falling for the scam. Joan is not apprising them of the real world, just her PR talking points. The question isn't 10:59 AM's relative ranking and comparisons, but whether it is worth $180k and three years to go to BLS. The answer is a definitive NO.

Anonymous said...

Of course a lot of people know BLS and Touro and the deans there. I think the people who don't know the major characters in the profession are just ill informed. I went to BLS. It's full of geniuses. They're hoping to make $20 per hour for shit conditions when the next wave of turnover at Bloomberg hits.

Anonymous said...

"Fuck all you new yorkers and your stupid competitive bullshit..."

This is a fair statement.
But these people don't have their eye on their ball. Years after graduating, their still nerdily talking about LSAT scores and Barron's rankings, not how much they're (not) making. Unemployed for six months, they are hoping the Bloomberg gig comes through.

Anonymous said...

Brooklyn hires people to troll the message boards and front for the school.

Anonymous said...

This blog BLOWS... Back top the Sullivan garbage hahahhahhahha

Anonymous said...

You blow, Joan.

Anonymous said...

God I, The Great John Bungsolaphgaus, LOVE this thread of comments! The word, the truth, the logic...its all finally catching on!

The 2:57 pm comments are brilliant! They accurately break down the true essence of TT law schools in the NYC area.

Law is truly for losers or the WASPY and JEWY elites. Exodus.

Anonymous said...

The anti-Semitic imbecile speaks again. You believe in Hitlerism not God. You belong in a mental institution.

Anonymous said...

Has BLS reported its 2008 employment statistics yet?

Anonymous said...

No Brooklyn Law School students do temp work.
If 1 or 2 ever did it was a very short term gig for a month or two only transitioning to one of the top law firms.
Networking through the BLS network in the city means that the school's alumni are in almost every partnership!