When firms black list attorneys for petty personal non business reasons, that
have absolutely nothing to do with an attorney's competence, work ethic, ability
or professional demeanor they further lower the bar for the profession as a
whole. The reality is that many contract or temporary attorneys register with
several agencies to insure a steady workflow. We are mercenaries. A number of
agencies are fine with this. Others repeatedly hire the same people and others
like Update, Lexolution and now DeNovo blacklist people for petty idiosyncratic
reasons. Law firm personnel who are being bribed by these firms need to come
clean and bid and staff their projects through several agencies so that the
firms can hire from a deeper talent pool rather than those clowns who suck up to
Eileen Lamboy, Scott Krowitz or Evelyn Louie. Update will staff retards with low
IQ's as long as they bill as many hours for the work provided and never express
any thing other than positive feedback to the agency or its represenatives. I
have seen borderline imbeciles repeatedly staffed by these agencies while other
more competent and independent minded people do not even get a call.
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59 comments:
When I was in Computer Consulting it was similar. It's difficult to describe. If you applied to different consulting firms and or applied to an employer directly a negative feedback would eventually reach the Recruiters. The end result, your resume was trash canned. Yes, they wouldn't tell you it was premanently put on ice or why. You would go on your merry way thinking your resume was getting submitted for positions. Two months down the road you would find out you applied to a blind ad in the newspaper and a recruiter submitted your resume to the same employer. The employer would call the Recruiter and ask if he could interview you. "No," the Recruiter would say... From then out your resume was iced!
I'm sorry, what talent is required for coding documents? The firms and the agencies know, just like we do, that ANYONE could do this job. Competent and independent minded people don't like this job - they go on interviews and get real jobs, so the agencies of course would rather put a moron on the task, because the moron will sit there and happily click their life away.
The firms and the agencies DO NOT CARE ABOUT YOU. Why should they? You have no skill, your job requires no effort or talent or challenge.
Call your mommy if you want to feel special, because she's the ONLY one who thinks you are.
I've never heard of a blacklist. Sure, there are a some psychos out there that we won't work with, but they are few. If you have a marketable resume, we'll always call you. No agency will ever seek revenge at the expense of a fee. I encourage new temps to sign up with a few agencies, because I know we can't keep them working all the time.
Update has a blacklist.
When I confronted Eileen about some obvious b.s. (very professionally, I might add), she got real snippy with me and told me to go call up some of my other agencies. I was never called by Update again.
You got that reply because you must have gotten bad reviews from a client, or ditched a job prematurely. There's no way you could ever know if the client at your last doc review told Update that your doc reviewing skills sucked. All it takes is a bad review from one client, and Update is done wtih you.
Update and other agencies have secret databases where unchallengeable and potentially slanderous statements can be written about you without your knowledge. One bad run in with fat Lily or with the wandering eye can get you blacklisted from projects from Brussels to LA. Sure, there are a multitude of agencies and firms, but with the monopolistic tendencies of many of these agencies you can rest assured that this information will eventually be shared.
You guys trash hard workers by calling them borderline imbeciles. That reveals your work ethic. Now, those hard workers may be idiots, but if you're a contract attorney you're probably no Einstein yourself. The work you do can be performed by monkeys, and if there were ethical rules, it would be done by monkeys.
We just need guys to blow through documents, finish the review, and go on so we can do real lawyering. In the age of electronic discovery, claw back provisions, and automatic highlighting of attorney names, it's almost impossible to waive privilege.
'Secret databases'? You crack me up. Yeah, sure- Bill Gates is in with "the" agencies (plural, because according to this moron they work as a unified group even though they are business competitors) and provides all of them (or whomever you decide is the devil agency this week) with SPECIAL SECRET SOFTWARE. Training on this SECRET SOFTWARE is done in remote locales. I bet you think the KGB are after you too, huh?
What I really don't understand about the pathetic sops that frequent this board is why are you wasting your time on this board when you could be hatching your escape plans???????? I mean do something! Anything! Go teach english in china. Become a DA in the most rural country in Virginia, where they are so desparte to fill the position that they won't care what your grades are (living there will be cheap too so you can deal with your loans!!!!!). Sell real estate and get a relator's licence. At the least, move out of the NY and DC metro areas where the housing market and the tax rates will keep you in perpetual poverty. I mean really! Do none of you have a whit of imagination about how to get out of your condondrum???????????
Before all of you start cursing me as a big law graduate, a law professor, or a scummy temp agency worker, let me tell you about My own background: bottom 10 (not botton 10%) from George Washington University '96. Had to go home to the wilds of central florida for two years after graduation to deal with a family health crisis. I worked as a law clerk for 2 years while I lived @ home. Pay sucked, but when you live @ home in central florida. Managed to move to a $50k in house attorney job for a small regional firm. Not the $160k you whiners think you are entitled to, but enough to pay bills and have some extras. Still living @home and sleeping in the bed I slept in in high school.
Managed to find a job as a compliance officer at a large IT firm in Northern Virginia (same salary as before but I decided it was time to move back to civilization). Lived in a townhouse with 5 other people in Vienna, and drove a '88 honda.
Little by little I inched my self up the career ladder to a Director level job in a Fortune 100 company. Hard work, a professional demeanor, and lots of networking were involved. Ten years after graduating from law school I know have a $100,000 job, full benefits, and rarely work over 50hrs a week. Oh, and working in industry, no one has EVER asked me about my law school rank.
If I can do it, so can you. Stop whining. Stop working such a dead end job. Dont sacrifce long term job prospects for short term economic gain. Take some time off between assignments to really strategize your next move, not just your next paycheck. And finally, the only people in those law firms more miserable than you are those $160K associates who due to the "golden handcuffs" on their writs can not even concive of taking any of the cool jobs I have done in my career path.
Peace!
With law schools charging $150K nowadays, who can afford to live in central Fla? Go tier 1 or go public!
2:42-
You are totally right but you have the wrong audience here. These folks aren't looking to make lives for themselves, they just like to blame eveyone ELSE including their law schools, the agencies (who give them legal jobs instead of working at Grestede's, mind you) the law firms, the project managers, Sallie Mae, the white man, the black man, you name it.
Right message, wrong audience.
Why do you think we are all living in miserable, overtaxed cities and working in middle class sweatshops? BECAUSE THAT IS WHERE THE JOBS ARE. People that suggest that we should move to Nebraska are downright delusional and probably have never stepped out of NYC.
All the places that have the jobs are overtaxed? And why is that? Because we (the shrinking middle class) are the ones who are being asked to bear the burden and finance the vast American empire.
"With law schools charging $150K nowadays, who can afford to live in central Fla?"
But you can somehow afford to live in Manhattan or the DC area? If you did your research, you would know that the cost of living differential is greater than the wage diffeential in most places, leaving more take home pay to service student loan debt.
Obviously, you have never lived in middle america. Unless your uncle is some local judge or some big shot, every graduate of a non-coastal TTT school knows that after graduation they (like the Joads) have to pack up their wagons and head to the coasts with the struggling masses. Unlike the literature put out by the law schools, however, life for the majority is far from perfect, as this blog illustrates.
But why leave NY or DC and make for a better life, when you can just be a bitter hateful temp posting how much everyone "owes you" and making personal attacks behind the veil of blog anonymity?
ps: now we can add "the vast American empire" to the list of entities you contract attorneys blame for your woes!
"every graduate of a non-coastal TTT school knows that after graduation they (like the Joads) have to pack up their wagons and head to the coasts with the struggling masses"
Um, then why the f*&% did you go to your TTT law school if you knew this awaited you upon graduation???????????
People don't know. Everyone thinks lawyers are rich and the schools play off this public misperception.
The firms love it because it provides them with a steady stream of cheap, disposable labor that they can exploit on top of their $1,000 an hour billing rates.
"People don't know. Everyone thinks lawyers are rich and the schools play off this public misperception."
If you believe everything that is in print you are far to stupid to be an attorney. Go code documents and thank god that you are not ringing up purchases for tampons and baby wipes at CVS!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The Update ladies love it because they can be a bitch to people on the phone all day, "X" anyone's file that they don't like, and it provides them with a steady financial stream for their Prada shoe collection.
4:50 Newsflash- my friend interviewed at Update last month and they only were going to pay her 52k. No prada there. You have no idea what you are talking about.
yeah, but aren't there commissions as well?
No. The commissions are only for the salespeople. None for the recruiters. That's why they couldn't give a crap if you work or not. No matter what, they get the same salary. Not a lot of people know this, and I'm not sure how ohter agencies work. Only Update because of my friend. If they have 500 people on a project or 5, it doesn't affect the Stepfords, see?
Don't mock Eileen. She is oppressed on her Update salary and we need her to join the proletariat revolution. The long spikes on her Prada heels may come in handy.
Long live the Molly Maguires!
8:24- Now you just sound like an angry misogynistic retard.
I thought the Stepfords were the worst--until I dealt with a pretentious little weasel named Andrew Rider.
10:26- WOW- so you are admitting now that no agency wants to work with you, according to you all the recuiters are awful. If they called you for jobs, you wouldn't be a jackass saying stupid things about people like a high school loser.
Are you so angry and bitter because you had to move back into Mommy's house because no agency wants to deal with you????
Mommy thought you were going to be a real lawyer... and now YOU CAN'T EVEN GET A TEMP JOB.
Thank you for your help.
A few years ago I registered with Update. Thereafter, I did not hear from them again until about 3 months later I got what appeared to be a form letter from them saying that they would not be giving me any more assignments. WTF? I had never worked for them on any assignments.
Is it really true that a water pipe once exploded in the Paul Weiss basement?
Can someone share their umbrella with me? http://youtube.com/watch?v=a4X7eFbP3u4
Thanks for exposing this seamy underbelly of the law; those of us who have worked in it know all too well the power the agencies wield over the individual workers.
I wonder why the temps never formed their own agency, all you need to do is provide a shell for employment to relieve the firms of the obligations of employment and pay people on time.
Besides finding the job, what service do the agencies actually provide (forget the insulting $1000 per month "benefits")? How tough can it be to call law firms or a ask friend that is an associate to ask if there are any projects going on?
Also, why can't individual temps form their own corps and get paid like any other vendor or IT contract worker? Why won't they let you do a 1099?
"Also, why can't individual temps form their own corps and get paid like any other vendor or IT contract worker?"
Because of cronyism and the spoils system. Many owners of agencies have cushy relationships with the partners at law firms. Also, wasn't there a story of a law firm partner sharing an equity interest in the profits of one of the agencies? It's a dirty quid pro quo and we all have to pay the price through lower wages and substandard work conditions.
I've read a lot of comments with TTT and "Tier 1." Out of curiosity, what is you guys' opinion of what schools make up tier 1? Is it to top 25 schools? The top 50. U.S. News rankings jump from "top 100" to Tier 3. So I'm guessing perhaps the bottom 50 of the top 100 are tier 2?? Just wanted to see some opinions on this.
Also, are there any temps out there that have done temping gigs other than "code monkey." I've heard of things like "collections" and lease reviews. Anybody have those experiences?
" It's a dirty quid pro quo and we all have to pay the price through lower wages and substandard work conditions."
You are so dumb it hurts. Why don't you go ahead and form that "union" you keep talking about and go do temp work without any agencies. Let's see how many attorneys (let along hiring partners!) take your calls. Go ahead, open up Martindale and call any of the big firms that dole out temp work and see what happens. Post what happens. We'll all be eagerly awaitng your results.
Law firm personnel who are being bribed by these firms need to come
clean and bid and staff their projects through several agencies so that the
firms can hire from a deeper talent pool
This can't ever happen. It's too much work for the law firms to handle being billed from 7 different agencies, then turn around and bill THEIR clients (at a huge mark-up we know)for the work. It's less work (which means less dollars) for firms to have all the temp attorney hours on one bill. No way in hell is a Cravath or a Quinn going to hire more in-house accounting or billing people so they can hire from "a deeper talent pool". Think about it, Tom.
"'ve read a lot of comments with TTT and "Tier 1." Out of curiosity, what is you guys' opinion of what schools make up tier 1?"
Traditionally, the top 50 schools were Tier 1, and the next 50 schools were Tier 2. I tend to define tiers in terms of the brand name strength of the schools.
1-14 have the strongest national brand names.
15-30 have some national schools and regional powerhouses
31-70 are generally strong regional schools.
If it were up to me, I would roughly define Tier 1 as 1-30, and Tier 2 as 30-70, by USNews numbers.
"Also, why can't individual temps form their own corps and get paid like any other vendor or IT contract worker? Why won't they let you do a 1099?
10:53 AM"
Back in the '80s IT workers were forming their own corps. The IRS cracked down, circa 1985, because it was loseing a lot of Tax revenue. This was the advent of the IT recruiter firm. Client's didn't really like the IT recruiter's because it cost them more $ and was more complicated. The IT Professional didn't like the recruiter becasue it cost them $ and well they weren't professional. In the end only the IRS won with its W2 from the recruiter firms.
What's wrong with Andrew Rider? Should we avoid him?
10:51:
Did your Mommy let you out of the basement for good behavior? I see she gave you your computer privliges back. How much longer until she stops withholding sex from you?
Things that are wrong with Andrew Rider:
(1) He is a liar
(2) He is a sleazebag
(3) He is pretentious
(4) He is an asshole
As for avoiding him, that depends on how badly you need a job. Fortunately, my doc review days are behind me, so I don't have to deal with his kind anymore.
11:36
Guess he wouldn't give you a job either. That makes, what? 7 NYC recruiters that won't give you even a one day temp job that Corky could do.
But of course you don't need a job now. Your parents don't charge you rent for your old room, right?
http://www.elsblog.org/the_empirical_legal_studi/2007/09/distribution-of.html
Andrew Rider IS a dumbass...
That out of the way, 2:42 DOES have it 100% right, in the simple fact that the only way out of the hell of the tempdom is TO get out of it - you have to make an escape plan. That is all I have figured out myself - i am stil working on the "how" part, but I have some ideas, specific to my own temperament and needs... its a work in progress, admittedly, but the point is that this year, I finally figured out that I cannot keep doing this forever....
I have met so many people who think the gravy train is never going to end. Tell that to the Mumbai stock exchange....
I also just want to note something else about blacklists... Update DEFINITELY has one, of course, and De Novo does too, i have confirmed. De Novo used to be one of the good places to work back when Sean Curtin worked there, but once Eveylyn took over, it was blacklist time.
I went to a TTT. I coded documents upon graduation for two years. I got out and got a real job. It can be done. Instead of worrying about some stupid "blacklist" why don't you stop being so paranoid and focus on your doc review or better yet, search for a job that doesn't have a "blacklist". However, chances are that if you think a lame profession like coding documents has a blacklist then certainly so would any other position you might aspire to. Basically it comes down to paranoia.
You can add Special Counsel and their Jennifer Nemec to that list, too.
Evelyn of DeNovo is such a sociopath that she probably enjoys being despised by her "blacklistees." Under other circumstances she might have been the Black Widow type who puts arsenic in the food of people she wants to eliminate. For the good of society, perhaps it's best that she works out her demons in tempworld.
Little does Evelyn or Rob Singer know that their fair-haired boy, John Thacher, is with them only for the purpose of starting his own agency with DeNovo's so-called "elite" document reviewers, i.e., women Thacher wants to hit on or attorneys willing to wear astronaut diapers.
Traditionally, the first tier was the top 25 schools until US News succumbed to pressure from whiner schools to enlarge the top tiers.
I get the idea that the New York and DC markets are very, very different in their feel. I am in DC and I think we have it pretty good.
I get the impression that in New York, maybe contract attorneys have a greater sense of entitlement, maybe the work ethic is a bit weaker. There must be a reason why DC pays more than New York when New York is a more expensive place to live or buy most other things. One theory is that the "world owes me a living" concept is entrenched in New York, making it a crappy labor pool and less productive. But I may be wrong.
Down here, people aren't worried about being blacklisted. Update here is one of the best; they are cheerful, supportive and encouraging. They want to make money and to have a successful team. Sorry to hear New York is so awful.
Who says Update in DC is cheery? Depends. I know of one bitch there--Erica Mitchell, who wouldn't know her ass from a hole in the ground. She is rude and seemingly unprofessional too. That bitch blacklisted someone I know years ago and it was never found out why. Compliance in DC is another shitty agency to work for. I know someone who lodged a serious complaint about one of the team leaders there years ago and this poor person was blacklisted because they made a very legitimate complaint. Shireene Skitter-Read of Compliance sucks BIG time and needs a serious attitude adjustment, with her fat ugly ass. I have wanted to tell these bitches off for years and I just might, because they have abused people for no legitimate reason and truly need to be told about themselves. Law Resources in DC was also another one that had shitty-acting and petty ass bitches working for it, but I think they merged with Special Counsel. Watch Special Counsel though, because they try to underpay you when others from other agencies on your same project are making more, sometimes $5 more per hour. I could go on and on about the good and bad agencies, but I will just let it all go now. I just had to vent, though, so don't hold it against me.
You guys mention Dc as being more cheey, well not so: The biggest Interstate BLACKLISTER is HIRECOUNSEL!!!
TOM, make a note of this for your people. Andrew RIDER in NY and Richard Thuemmler in DC, Bernadette Savage and MARCUS MILLER in LA are all participants of UNFAIR blacklisting.
The main one is this Bernadette person who has such a bad rep in LA. The temps who actually work for her talk about her like a dog and warn others to watch out for her because she is: "unprofessional", "behaves very strangely," "is weird", "is temprmental" "does'nt return phone calls or emails-ever--unless you have something SHE needs," "plays both sides of the fence constantly"
Apparently, she is a witch and she corrupts everyone else around her that she works for. Marcus Miller, a black man with a British Accent may sound very high-brow but he is low-class and unprofessional as well. He does NOT think for himself and is a dronish sheep. These people blacklist others for No good reason and deserve to be called out. They should beware that a temp will accept a job from you but he or she will also freely discuss with everyone they can how bad of a personality you have and how unpleasant you are to deal with. When people have to actually do the pros and cons of whether or not they should actually bother calling you today to find out if there is work, then you've really got a problem. When people roll their eyes and are not at a loss for words whenever your name is mentioned, you've got a problem. When there is an online email list made by attorneys of all of the agencies in ONE particular area being passed around to newer attorneys wanting to sign up with ALL of the agents, and under your company, next to Your name (Bernadette) in brackets there is an asterisk and a key that says: "tread carefully, she is VERY finicky and odd--if she likes you, you are in but can HATE you for No reason or any reason at all LOL", you have got a problem.
Shame on her. Eventually the chickens will come home to roost.
In response to the post re: Hire Counsel, yes, Bernie Savage has an awful reputation but then again she doesn't care what contract attorneys think of her. If she did, she wouldn't treat them with such a cavalier disregard. You're either useful to her (in which case she'll be hounding you until she reaches you) or you aren't even worth the bother of emailing. If you don't land a project or an interview, she never tells you. She prefers to keep people guessing, waiting until she can find another use for them rather then tell them they didn't get the job so they can commit to something else. It's a control issue, so don't expect to be kept informed or even treated like human beings, much less attorneys. She has no interest in what you think or what you have to say. She enjoys playing God, deciding who gets saved and who gets punished. Then again, our industry is full of insecure, capricious, temperamental sociopaths like Bernadette Savage (who, as it so happens, isn't even an attorney). Everyone in L.A. knows about Hugh Todd (sociopath extraordinaire) at Gibson and his dire, dismal reputation, and some even know about Nicole Harnett at O'Melveny. These two aren't placement agents but they run the projects themselves; and they give new meaning to the term control-freak. It's the nature of this business, it seems. And many of the agents now rival the project managers in how poorly they treat people. Granted, you don't have to be a document review attorneys to be treated like children; there are plenty of insecure partners lording it over associates. The problem is low demand and high competition for these jobs these days. People like Bernie Savage will always treat people contemptuously if they can get away with it. Things will only change if the market favors the document review attorney (unlikely), in which case she'll be thankful for our commitment to dead-end jobs that whittle away at our career prospects. As it is, she doesn't care and if you don't like it (or aren't available for work or are not completely and entirely convenient to her plans) you won't ever hear from her again. So if you get blacklisted, it's probably for the best. The kind of people who'd blacklist you aren't the kind of people you'd want to work with anyway. And I'm not saying that to feel better about it. It's that there are enough people in this industry who can be honest and understanding and who don't play games like Bernie Savage. A pity that clients don't know what she's really like beyond all the phony charm.
Wow, these comments are dead on about Bernadette Savage. She is the most unprofessional lady I have ever worked with. Somehow I knew I would find unfavorable reviews about her on the net. I worked with her about 5 months ago on a project in LA and I will never do so again.
Funny how several people on here bad mouth contract attorneys as whiners, looking to blame everyone else, and so on. The FACT of the matter is, blacklisting is alive and well in the contract/doc review world...and it most likely hits the honest, ethical attorneys. I worked for Davidson staffing in San Diego for quite some time, but as soon as I called attention to the fact that several of the other attorney working on the project were playing World of Warcraft for hours on end and meeting their daily goals by simply keeping their finger on the "produce," button, I was canned, along with another ethical attorney, and neither of us have been called by Davidson or any other legal staffing companies in San Diego since that time. I am NOT crying, or underqualified, nor was I at the bottom of my class. In fact, quite the opposite, and I have a great resume. My reasons for doing this work are my own...and I enjoy it more than working for a firm...so keep your insults and irrelevant comments at bay. Blacklisting for being a good, solid attorney is the order of the day, unfortunately.
Talking about agencies; what do you guys think about Strategic Legal. They use you, abuse you and dump you.It is worse when they are a third party recruiting agent; like when their office space would be leased by agencies like FTI Consulting and they will also serve as the recruiting agency for the Consulting group.Some fat old grumpy lady with FTI-Leslie Gibson who does not know her left from right is a racist who gossips on review sites will get FTI in trouble because she is torn in the flesh of reviewers; she is not a lawyer but struggles to make you believe that she knows what you know.
I am not going to try and argue that Bernie Savage is the world's greatest person or that everything that is said about her here is completely untrue, but she did treat me alright.
Maybe I had no problems because I entered the k attorney gig with reasonable expectations. I did not expect to do anything intellectually stimulating and I did not expect to get treated like some rock star. All I expected was to punch in to work, do some doc review, punch out, and get a modest pay check while I find the job I went to law school to get.
In addition to the other complaints, HireCounsel just put an ad out for temporary project paralegals and counsel for a "high profile" litigation case for a:
"top san Diego firm",
"an International San Diego firm"
and "a top Los Angeles" firm all with the same exact job description. So I called Marcus Miller in HireCounsel's L.A. office and left a voicemail asking if they were simply just collecting resumes to build a database or if there was an actual position in California.
I don't expect a returned phone call.
I had numerous interactions with Eileen Callanan in Los Angeles's Update Legal office. I would say she is a beautiful girl. I would also say she is the snottiest person with the most toxic personality I have ever met. When I did not jump at the chance to take a job they offered me, I received a childish email full of bile cc'ing the other LA update staff. I have heard, in such a way as to believe it to be true, that Marcus Miller hired someone promising that it was a 2 month doc review. The candidate arrived and was told his first day was the last day of the doc review. Marcus Miller replied to the candidate, "I was honest with you. It WAS a 2 month do review. You just happened to get there on the last day." I once did a doc review with "Flawless"(as in the Phillip Seymour Hoffman movie) Brian Conley at Wilmer Hale. It was a patent doc review. This English major didn't know patent leather shoes from patent law. Nor did any of the internal Wilmer lawyers who had nice backgrounds having absolutely nothing to do with the litigation at hand.
I would like to thank for the effort you have made in writing this useful information for us.
contract attorney
I've worked for a couple of temp firms in LA, it was a while ago. One of them was Hire Legal, where I worked with Bernie Savage, who treated me very decently and with whom I would be happy to work with again.
Background, for context, I intermittently practice because I would rather work for myself on non-law stuff, but go back to temping because it is flexible and covers the bills.
My legal background/credentials are pretty good. Also, I am reliable and relatively smart, like most people who can pass the CA bar.
Some points in order:
First, to the trolls, don't be so horribly mean. There is no need to denigrate people who are already working hard to get/keep work by telling them they are idiots or monkeys. Karma is a bitch, you do not want to deal with the rebound.
Second, work is work, and it is all worthy of respect. Working as a temp atty is not the most thrilling or lucrative job in the world, but so many people in this country work two or three minimum wage jobs to feed their families. Have a little gratitude if you have work that pays a comfortable living wage for 40 hours a week.
Third - the above notwithstanding - being a permanent lawyer at a firm or company is usually(IMHO) a stressful, draining job. Temping allows you to leave things behind at the end of the day. I used to keep a pillow and blanket under my desk when I worked at my firm, which was a good, relatively supportive one.
Fourth, if you are reading this as a potential lawyer, do not assume huge amounts of debt to go to law school unless you are driven to do so and are willing to hang out your own shingle, are very capable, and willing to hustle like a MF for business. If so, you will succeed. If not, the debt may be suffocating.
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