Monday, July 23, 2007

E.P. Slime

Just letting you know that Dine & Quinn Emanuel pulled a bait & switch. Job was sold as $35/hr + OT(that should've been the clue, since that's a high rate for Dine and they never pay OT). 50-60 hrs/wk. $20 meal reimbursement after 10 hrs.

Then when we get there, we find out it's only 40 hrs/wk. Obviously, no meal reimburse b/c no 10 hrs. We're trying to find out when the OT starts, but all we get is "Soon".

This old shyster from Dine, Norman Fashler ("VP of Operations") is there every day, probing the psyches of all the temps, trying to find out who's unhappy with this. "How's everything going?" He asks this question while issuing forth a probing energy, trying to find out what's going on inside of you. Very insidious. This guy obviously has learned all the techniques for interrogation - perhaps he was once in the CIA.... Check out his credentials on the Dine Temp website. "Defense Contracting". He must've washed out of the CIA then to be forced to go to the bottom of the barrel, temp agency-wise...

I feel bad for Shawn Treadwell, the recruiter from Dine. He seems like a nice guy (I spoke with him at length about the bad rep Dine has, and he answered my questions honestly and still placed me.) I get the feeling he's stuck in a bad position right now, for not only does Dine have a bad rep amongst temps, but it also does amongst other agencies. Not sure he's able to easily make a lateral move somewhere less satanic....

There's a lot more juicy stuff.... Will keep you posted.

Update: They're dropping like flies here. People are leaving the project in droves b/c of the bait-and-switch. The market is picking up again after a slow few months, so there are now options for experienced doc reviewers...

Now Dine has an ad on Craigs List to replace those people with "10+ admitted attorneys". Once again, they say it will pay $35+OT, and have the gall to say "substantial OT". You might want to post a warning about this and officially break the bait and switch story. (PS - Quinn is also complicit in this bait and switch - they keep saying OT will come "soon", that the hrs will "ramp up". I believe that Dine and Quinn got together and Dine told Quinn that they wouldn't be able to staff the project w/o the OT promise... So Quinn should get lambasted, too...)


Anonymous said...

Quinn Emmanuel used to hire contract attorneys directly. The rate they offered was barely above the rate one gets after the agency takes its cut. Hours were said to be unlimited in the job description. I wonder why they chose E.P. Dine of all agencies.

Anonymous said...

Don't feel badly for Mr. Treadwell -- he's friendly but in truth he loves the screw TA's. EP Dine is pure scum through and through . . . I wish we had the power to close them down.

Anonymous said...


Anonymous said...

These temp agencies are really the lowest of the low on the food chain. The people that work at these agencies take pride in their lies and screwing over others. They are also rather vengeful.

Anonymous said...

maybe this is a new trend? Hudson is staffing a Sherman and Sterling project and the same thing seems to be going on there

Anonymous said...

Huds** is really bad in DC. Be Warned!

Anonymous said...

I used to temp for a little while and thankfully jumped back into a small firm job, but I talked to Sean Treadwell a couple of times and even met him when I first registered with EP Dine. He's a very nice guy, and I think he takes a lot of heat from all sides just to make everyone happy. You think being a temp is so easy, that screaming for over-time is your right, but the fact is, its all about the bottom dollar. I'm sure someone at Quinn struck a 'sweetheart' type deal in order to throw some business toward EP Dine and the project probably doesn't require over-time...

So you should be smart enough not to rely on those gimmicky Craigslist ads promising "plenty of over time" and "project will last X months", because let's face it - its like someone relying on those NYC subway ads that claim their clients all get 50 million dollar verdicts for standard slip and falls..You can't possibly be that gullible!

Anonymous said...

EP Dine and Treadwell are slime. Treadwell would smile at you while fu*king you in the ass if it made him a nickel. EP Dine likes that and that's why he has been there for so long. Shady group.

Anonymous said...

Wow..I am on the same project. You guys must know that the agencies do not set the rate or the hours. Harsh!

Anonymous said...

I have a friend on the Quinn project and he's working overtime. It just took awhile to get started, and they're only allowing the best reviewers to work overtime.

Let's face it. Document review is not what we thought we'd be doing when we graduated law school - but it sure pays the bills.

Anonymous said...

Excellent cash. More than any salaried attorney I know working as counsel in a business. There are down sides, however...

Anonymous said...

"Wow..I am on the same project. You guys must know that the agencies do not set the rate or the hours. Harsh! "

Very misleading post and very wrong. Agencies negotiate with the firm, and then the agencies decide how much they want to keep. The mark-up is outrageous. The only reason agencies exist is to serve as a liability buffer for things like workers comp and so on. They are also used to commit illegal discrimination on behalf of the firm.

Anonymous said...

Discrimination? Are you saying firms discriminate because they don't hire people with crap grades to be associates?

Anonymous said...

Discrimination? Are you saying firms discriminate because they don't hire people with crap grades to be associates?

No, what I think the 10:07 PM poster was referring to was that the firms can then say they promote diversity and point to the temps, who usually are minorities, although they're not actual employees so I don't know how this would work. I guess they just want to make it look good by showing they hire people of do friggin' document review!

However, I know plenty of white people doing document review, too. The job market stinks and there's too many lawyers looking for work.

Anonymous said...

First, I don't know what firms say they promote diversity and then point to people who aren't even employees. Second, firms do look (pretty hard I bet) for qualified minority candidates. But the key word is "qualified." Cravath's not going to hire someone who finished in the bottom of his class at Brooklyn regardless of the color of his skin. This is a person who almost certainly isn't capable of producing work of the quality that Cravath's clients demand. Law school grading is random, but it ain't that random. Finally, and I know you (10:09) didn't make the original comment, but illegal discrimination? How? Even if what you say is right, that's not discrimination at all, let alone illegal discrimination.

Anonymous said...

They use hyperbole here, 1:28. We are the only brothers in America who whine about making six figure salaries. It's much better than my dad who started in a shoe shine stand!

Anonymous said...

Salary reality: Many lawyers don't earn big bucks

People have a false impression about lawyers — that they all make six-figure salaries.

With at least three big law firms in Houston announcing this month that they're raising starting pay to $160,000, there's reason for the confusion.

But the reality is that first-year graduates from the three Houston law schools make as little as $30,000 a year and have a median salary of around $70,000.

Those outside the profession aren't the only ones with unrealistic impressions of lawyer pay.

A lot of law students, seduced by publicity about high-end salaries and some wishful thinking, aren't grounded about legal salaries either.

"Every student thinks they are going to be in the top 5 percent of the class and make $150,000. The reality is they are not. If the grades are not there, the money does not follow," said Andreaus Boise, career service coordinator for the Thurgood Marshall
School of Law at Texas Southern University.

Students get upset about this often enough that Boise keeps Rolaids on her desk for them. Another law school career adviser says she keeps tissues on her desk for the inevitable tears.

Feeling the curve

The top salaries go to law students from the prestige schools or those who have the very best grades at other schools.

Others, even some who have enjoyed earlier academic success, might need to lower their expectations.

"These students have done well their whole life. This is the first time for a lot of them that they feel a forced curve," said Rhonda Beassie, assistant dean of career development at the University of Houston Law Center. "A healthy percentage of the students don't get the message until they go bid for a job."

The law students who go to the top-tier firms will make $120,000 to $165,000 annually, but that will be the top 10 percent or less, according to the local law school career offices. Those in midsize firms will make roughly $55,000 to $80,000. At small firms or government jobs, they get $40,000 to $60,000. Solo practitioners may make $30,000 or even live off loans when they start out.

Certainly with experience, these lawyers should increase their income and eventually most of them will get past $100,000, but not that far past it. The median income or 50th percentile, for all attorneys in Texas was $113,300 in 2005, the last time the State Bar of Texas conducted its survey.

In the Houston area, the Bar found the median income for probate and estate attorneys was $78,333, for real estate lawyers it was $88,750, and for civil trial lawyers it was $187,500.

The price of going solo

"Students who go out and get a first-year salary of $45,000 are blown away. Their expectations were glamorized," said Reginald Green, the assistant dean of career resources at South Texas College of Law.

The median income for members of the South Texas class of 2006 is $70,000, and the average is $82,000, he said their survey shows.

Green said expectations may be inflated because law schools market themselves in the brightest light and the media cover the highest salaries.

Boise said the TSU law school produces many solo practitioners.

"A lot of students hang out their own shingle. They go to the courthouse to get court appointments. They start at $35,000, sometimes more, sometimes less," she said.

A fresh start

Melissa Lanier and her law partner, Elizabeth Pagel, graduated from TSU law school in May 2006 and they set up a partnership in Humble — Lanier & Pagel. Their first-year income will probably be about $30,000 each, tops.

"We think we are doing well. We thought there might be no money in our own pocket for a year or two," said Lanier, who practices bankruptcy law, while Pagel focuses on family law.

The partners have hustled business by networking, distributing fliers, attending seminars and placing phone books ads.

"We sent out announcement cards to everyone we had ever met in our lives," Lanier said.

"It is funny, even my husband thought he'd have a wife making big bucks. That's not automatic," said Lanier, 40, who is making the law a second career after working in marketing. She is delighted with her progress.

Living a little

So is Amber Lanvin, a May 2005 UH law school grad, making about $53,000 at the small bankruptcy law firm Swindell & Associates. She tried a couple of other small firms before she found the right fit.

"The people at the top of the class were really driven to be there. But I work about 50 hours a week. I'm not working their 80 hours a week," said Lanvin, 27. "I get to hang with my fiance, have a nice dinner, live a little."

Ryan Peterson, a May 2006 graduate of South Texas, makes about $50,000 doing mostly traffic court work for the Citizen Law Firm.

"No question that there are some people who go to law school thinking they'll get $100,000 at their first job even though they can't argue their way out of a paper bag," said Peterson, 28, who would like to move to more serious criminal cases.

'It's worth it...'

Amy Allen, a May 2006 UH law school grad, is practicing family law at Myres, Dale & Associates.
She didn't have the grades to make the big bucks and earns less than $60,000, but says she likes getting hands-on experience with clients and in court.

"I'm literally learning something new every day," Allen said.

"Every day it seems some friend thinks I'm making more than I do. They say, 'Come see me in Florida.' I say I can't afford it, and they are surprised," said Allen, 35. "I'm living paycheck to paycheck. I don't have a new BMW. But I love my job. It's worth it to me."

Anonymous said...

unfortunately - the law firm is the venue for complaints since they are giving the temps the BS lines and the wait until the end of the day/week/month run-around. the agency is just echoing their story sine they are all supposed to get alone. It is clear that the lawfirm randomly approved OT to temps that do NOT deserve it! and the quinn attorneys are working OT on their first day on this project.

Anonymous said...

"they're only allowing the best reviewers to work overtime."

uh NO.
they only allowed OT to people who complained enough that they could not afford to stay on the project without OT.

Anonymous said...

the craigslist posting that tom is talking about is from sunday
talking about a review starting on monday for 3-7days
it cannot be the same review

Anonymous said...

I just got off a 50$ hr review for Dine - they're not bad at all. Ive always had them looking out for me. My experience has been if you treat any Agency with respect, they'll do what they can for you.

I know about the Quinn project. If you guys dont like it, then why stay?

Anonymous said...

because they wont pay us our last 2 weeks if we leave the project
noone wants to have worked for free for 2 weeks

Anonymous said...

A colleague of mine just went through this with them - theres been a change in management and the new Guard doesnt operate that way. They will pay you.

Anonymous said...

You people praising EPDine are nuts . . . they are simply put the most shady, sleazy, cheap and crooked agency in the entire city. Period.

Anonymous said...

No, 11:36 pm, I was not referring to discrimination based on grades. The discrimination I referred to occurs in the context of permanent placement. Those headhunters and agencies often discriminate based on age (and who knows what else) so the firm doesn't have to do so itself. This is a well-known fact within the legal placement industry, which you, 11:36 pm, are most likely a part of. You know what's going on. Nice try...

Anonymous said...

The people praising EP Dine are not nuts at all. They are EP Dine employees - THEY ARE MOLES trying to fight the backlash from their deception. BEWARE OF EP DINE. Let me tell you the truth on this. I've turned down several project for two reasons, 1) I want to try to be loyal so as not to burn bridges and 2) I'm holding out hope that, like many fairy tales, this OT will come true. An EP Mole said above that they are letting the best reviewers get OT. Well, the problem is Quinn wouldn't know who the best reviewers are. They keep promising to review our work but most people have not been reviewed and we've submitted many folders of documents. So the truth is they are letting people who have other obligations work OT, which is not fair....And to the MOLE who says that doc review pays the bills, you are absolutely right, it pays the bills and my outrageous law debt when I get OT!

Anonymous said...

Guys, why don't you complain to ep slime and quinn instead of here?
why don't you threaten them in some way?

Anonymous said... smug of you. you're an associate, no doubt, almost certainly at QE, most likely of western european descent, comfortably perched in your glass tower, looking down on the, contract attorneys beneath you, utterly, blissfully (and purposefully?) unaware of the historical and institutional discriminatory forces that pervade our schools and businesses, currently at work, giving you the luxury to post such naive comments. perhaps your law degree from Penn (?), Georgetown (?) or maybe NYU (?) somehow convinced you that YOU were "capable of producing work of the quality that Cravath's clients demand" and a middle-of-the-road brooklyn law grad isn't, thereby freeing you from the burden of having to face the sad reality that your ascent to the ranks of mistreated associate is free-and-clear of any discriminatory practices. you earned it, right? fair and square? the african american male or hispanic female contract associate?.....well, he/she should've just tried harder. studied more.....or just wasn't "smart" enough.
ah, 1:28, if it were that simple. fact is, you, since the day you were born, you have likely enjoyed socio-economic benefits far superior to almost every minority currently competing with you for your firm job (a pursuit all the less gratifying once achieved, i should add).
a lifetime of advantages and this is your show of gratitude?
(quite frankly, you should be disappointed you didn't accomplish more, given your head start)
law firms don't discriminate? shame, shame. they're the beneficiary of a system that discriminates every step of the way.

Anonymous said...

What are you whining about, complaining about discrimination.

What do you want? You want us to work with women and blacks. Get real.

Anonymous said...

Sorry, 6:00, but you're a tool. I'm not at Quinn or Cravath, but I am an associate. (I never even considered Quinn and Cravath would have taken one look at my resume and laughed me out of the interview room. That said, while I've never been on a deal opposite Cravath, I work on deals all the time opposite firms that are a notch or two below Cravath and I feel like I can hold my own, although I regularly come across people at these firms who I think are extremely smart, certainly smarter than me.)

I didn't say temps were beneath me; in fact, I never even intimated anything of the sort. I went to Fordham and I worked hard. And yeah, I do think that the people who did poorly in law school should have studied harder or been smarter. Are you really trying to say that everyone who's a minority and did poorly in law school did so because I enjoyed more socio-economic benefits then they did? Am I supposed to feel guilty because some people have money and some people don't? That's capitalism. If you want something different, move to Cuba. Moreover, plenty of poor people attend law school, are successful there and go on to be successful attorneys, so your point about economic factos leading to poor performance in law school is nonsense. Again, you still haven't identified any discrimination.

Sorry if I'm rambling a bit, but I've been at work since Thursday morning and, even so, my "pursuit" of getting a job at a big firm is satisfying. I don't feel the least bit mistreated. I don't think most associates feel mistreated, but if that's what you have to tell yourself to get through the day, be my guest. I like the people and the work and I don't have to spend all of my time bitching and moaning on some blog about how unfair life is. Anyway, back to work.

Anonymous said...

Something strange is happening on this project...stay tuned.

Anonymous said...

1:28 and again at 12:20 AM - Get a life. 12:20 am on a Friday night
and you are writing on a blog and then claiming that you "don't have
to spend all of [your] time bitching and moaning on some blog." Your
post is brimming with envy. We all know what your intentions were even
if you didn't "intimate" that you were better than doc reviewers. And
the truth is you are probably a Quinn Associate. It's probably Rennee
Bea trying to throw us off the vile scent emitting from somewhere
between her nether. The fact is what 6:00 meant when referring to the
socio-economic benefits that you enjoyed (and he can correct me if I'm
wrong) is that this fruitless search for qualified minorities (pretty
hard you would bet) that these law firms are engaged in is fruitless
because the American system discriminates. This ingrained
discrimination results in a dearth of qualified minorities at the law
school level. The Civil Rights Act was 1964, that is 43 years ago.
Your father is probably older than that. There are some minorities
that continue to trickle through to the top level despite overt
private, and covert public discriminatory practices, but those numbers will probably not be enough for the "pretty hard" search QUINN is supposedly making.

Anonymous said...

Something strange is that they are "downsizing" it - how many on staff got the cut I do not know, but I wouldn't be surprised if this is payback for the discussion on this blog...

Anonymous said...

i got a message from epdine saying not to go back.
is it true that theyre downsizing?
how many people did get fired?

Anonymous said...

It is true. Got the same message. I've wasted weeks of my life where I was paid atypically on a bi-weekly basis and almost died of starvation on a 2 week pay equal to 1 week pay at other projects with OT. I turned down other projects before I took this one and turned down others when I was not getting OT. What did I get for my loyalty? I got let go. The guys who jumped ship early are the smart ones. They owe us nothing, why should we give anything in return?

Anonymous said...

It's true - Loyalty counts for shit. I could have left for other projects on as much as 5 occasions but chose to stick it out, chose to give them the benefit of the doubt. I feel like such a tool now, let me tell ya..

Although I also am not as mad as some with EP Dine. I am not a troll, but I don't really think they are to blame here. They may have oversold the project a bit in the beginning, but I don't think it was a calculated lie - i think Quinn lied to them too. All i know is I heard the same EP Dine horror stories everyone else did, and to be honest, I can't complain about my own personal dealings with them. Shawn Treadwell and Carrie Cheskin both treated me great. The 2 week paycheck thing and Fassler giving us all the evil eye were annoying, but let's face facts- that wasn't the problem here.

The REAL problem was the management system at Quinn. I mean, who the fuck was in charge over there anyway? Renee Bea? She was a neurotic, immature, insecure and inexperienced c*** and she set the whole tone for the project. It was clear that she did not understand document review, and was also bitter that she had to run one and thus be in a dead end careerwise (they don't give the rising stars in Biglaw doc review supervising gigs!)

Someone told me that one of the temps emailed her asking for a clarification about the OT situation and she wrote a whiny reply back saying "I'm so busy I haven't seen my family in two weeks!" How unprofessional is that? We ALL have our own sob stories, Woman! Tell it to someone who cares!

I'm sorry if some of this language came out harsh, but I am angry. This was one of the most unprofessional reviews I have ever known of, and I just hope someone at Quinn is reading this and thus finds out what kind of an incompetent nutjob they hired as an associate.

Anonymous said...

and who decided which temps get to stay and which ones get to leave after donwsizing? is it quinn? I think its epdine with the help of some moles
supposedly only the people already approved for ot got to stay. not true.

Anonymous said...

I agree with 9:12 about Quinn being ultimately responsible for what happened here, although I do think EP had some say in who stays. I know one person in particular who was not getting and OT and did not come to work every Friday but had a good relationship with Fassler.

I don't know whether Rennee was inexperienced, it seemed to me that she had dealt with doc reviewers before and thought she would "reform" the system, which means she would punish good reviewers because some reviewers abuse the system. The fact is I'm pretty sure that these associates are putting in billable hours when they are not necessarily working. I'm almost certain they don't have to mark their bathroom breaks or the time spent going downstairs to pick up some food from Seamless Web. Although, I don't know if any of us doc reviewers actually did this, just having that stipulation did not help morale. Ultimately, Quinn totally messed up on this one and I hope that not only a senior associate gets to hear this but word about this gets to IBM as well. Matter of fact, if someone knows how to make that happen, they should go about doing it.

Anonymous said...

9:12: They most certainly do give rising stars doc reviews to manage. Rising stars get treated just like everyone else. This isn't sports where a team's star get preferential treatment. Associates are associates. And it's even more important for the rising stars to manage doc reviews, so as their careers progress, they know how to oversee the more junior associates running future reviews.

C'mon Tom, why don't you follow your own rule about no names and delete the name of the QE associate?

Anonymous said...

tom gave the names of the ep slime people
what up with that

Anonymous said...

ep slime is appropriate

Anonymous said...

I heard that the downsizing was because most people just didn't understand how to code. (That could be a Quinn issue if they can't explain things properly). There were also some very strange people who were inappropriate. So they're starting over with Lex. Also, it didn't help that most of the Quinn contract attorneys thought they were better than everyone else. The OT issue was pretty lame.

Anonymous said...

Has anyone else heard about another agency beginning to staff this project to replace those of us that were let go?

Anonymous said...

ok so basically its not REALLY downsizing, its just replacing the people who werent good enough? thats BS
I did the work exactly the way they asked but its not my fault if they gave new instructions and explanations AFTER i finished my first folder anad BEFORE i got it back with feedback about how the coding was not correct.

Anonymous said...

4.40 "strange people who were inappropriate"
what kind of inappropriate? in what way?

Anonymous said...

Renee, the post at 9:12 shows you're getting worried....

Anonymous said...

They didn't know what they were doing there, and they still don't.

What I am curious about is this Lex thing. The Lex assignment pays $37 an hour. So, are any EP Dine people left? Have they been given a raise to compensate for the differential? Or is the whole thing just going to Lex now?

As for coding issues, this was an extremely complex review. Putting it in the hands of incompetent and inexperienced associates was a recipe for disaster.

What irritates me is that it seems to me that the people who whined and complained and threatened to quit like the 20 or so who already had were the ones who got reviewed first and thus got OT. No criticism there- it's a life lesson i guess - the squeaky wheel gets the grease. But I took my commitment seriously, I chose to take Quinn at their word and tried not to pester them. And the reward for that? "Downsizing"

Anonymous said...

there are epdine people staying but i dont think they got a raise

Anonymous said...

Hahahahaha suckers!

Anonymous said...

No your the suckers your jobless and now you have to find another assignment to bad for those who didn't stay and it seems like it was there first time ever doing a review and for all those who made a comment about renee she has done her job well as an attorney and she is the best thing that is on this case now. Incompetent questions that you thought that was not being answered well you got your anwser now... see you at another review sorry ass people.

Anonymous said...

Why is everyone getting so nasty? Why get so persoanl and use bad language - I don't appreciate it !!! We all know very well that this is the nature of the business that is why it is called TEMPORARY assignment !!! There was really no need to mention the names of the elaine p. dine people and talk about them in such a horrible way PLUS really really there was no reason to talk about the associate and attack her personally and similalry there was no reason to mention her name.
We are all here to make money and you see that even the firm is interested about the pennies and they basically fired elaine p dine becasue of the way the office space was kept - so anything to save a buck also means ditching an agency. More importanly, I am certain that the associate on the job does not make the calls on this project and its budget and she has to answer to her supervising attonrey just like we do - so lets all act like adults and do what we are being paid for - Work. This is not a vacation!

Anonymous said...

The overuse of temp attorneys is a huge problem. Start hiring people and they will care, and these problems will become much less. This race to the bottom serves no one.

Anonymous said...

Excuse me 3:27, but some of us have been doing this for years, on cases that make the Quinn one look like "Dog bites Man". So I feel I speak from experience when I say that putting inexperienced first and second year associates in an offsite location to supervise a review that is not uniquely challenging, legally speaking(the subpoena and case summaries are dime a dozen issues), but can be quite confusing to legal professionals who have no background in IT and computer hardware/software marketing - and this includes EVERYONE on the assignment.

In my opinion, this led to a failure to see the forest for the trees. We as document reviewers don't need to be able to read accounting statements or binary code or geological surveys (to use examples of three other cases I worked on) - We needed CLEAR instructions on what we were looking for and how to mark it. None was given b/c the associates clearly had no idea. I will not go into detail, but when 3 different associates give three different interpretations of a document, or when one spends valuable time debating the responsiveness of documents that were so absurdly non-responsive that submitting them in discovery would be an insult to the court and calling this "strategy" - it was clear the lunatics had taken over the asylum.

On every other project I have been part of, there were at least SOME genuinely experienced associates who understood that discovery is a practical process of synthesizing speed, accuracy, and usefulness at trial. You want efficiency, communication, and constant feedback. None of that existed here. The only people who seemed to have any pracical understanding were the lit support people .

But I must turn my attention, 3:27, to congratulate you on your triumph. The fact that your review skills were considered superior in THAT environment is akin to the idea that a million monkeys banging on type writers for a million years would eventually produce Shakespeare. For your legal brilliance, what have you gotten? Well, I'll tell you - you got a few more weeks in an oppresively humid and rat infested workspace, in violation of more OSHA regs than there are subpoena requests on this case. You've also got (drumroll please), OVERTIME! Yee-ha, celebrate your lack of social skills b/c you don't need them when you're hunched over in the sweatshop, always keeping Internet Explorer open to keep reasserting your doc review superiority while also raising the art of kissing ass to new heights. And BTW if Renee is the best thing on that project right now, I think that really says it ALL, and perhaps more than your sycophantic self might have intended.

Oh, and the assignment is over by September. Perhaps sooner for you when the more highly paid Lexolution crew arrives and that highly praised OT of yours is revoked.

Finally, i would just like to pay tribute with the four score and 7 (well, okay, maybe it was more like 20something) doc reviewers who knew something rotten when they smelled it and got the hell out of Dodge, who didn't bother with loyalty or assurances to commit to a project that from the start made it clear to all of us was not interested in reciprocating for us, who were sharp enough to see through the lies and look out for themselve b/c in the temp world no one else is going to. The fact that so many left with no apparent impunity is a victory for all of us temps, I think, b/c that "blacklist fear" is clearly a thing of the past now as the market grows and we begin to talk to each other on blogs like this.]

Tom, I thank you for this blog. The dialogue here has been nothing if not informative, on so many levels. We have a forum to see how we are not alone, yet also see that we are also surrounded by vipers in this business who are just as ugly on the inside as they are on the outside. And yes, a lot of ugly things have been said, insults and personal comments that were perhaps not very nice. I for one apologize for the extent of it, but not the FACT of it. It does not compare to the "Doc Review Superstars" like 9:12 who see this as an opportunity to act like they just made partner based on their brilliant pointing and clicking.

A lot of people got hurt on this assignment - got lied to, had their trust betrayed, and went from one bait and switch to another. That would have been bad enough, but i find the smug comments of some on the quislings on this board are most offensive and hurtful of all.

We have a RIGHT to complain, to vent, to rage, and even say some inapropriate things on occasion b/c goddamn it, we are not made of stone! We got royally F***ed on this gig! Tom has given people like us a VOICE for once, and I refuse to apologize for the fact that some of our free speech was not to your liking. But the "Temp 5th Columnists" like 9:12, who apparently have NO problems except dealing with jealous people like myself perhaps, who doesn't appreciate their ability to use a mouse to put a check in a box again and again so skillfully-

THOSE ones, the temps who have posted of their smug pride in now being microscopically bigger fish in an overheated and polluted pond and bask in it by making truly unprovoked attacks on their less fortunate former coworkers in order to better assert their insecure need for superiority, THAT has been the truly ugly thing we have seen on here. If you're gonna ban real names, Tom, please also ban these members of the Temp Taliban. They are not the ones this blog is written for - they are in fact the enemy of everything it stands for - Fair work practices, as welll as giving an opportuniting to bring together a group that is usually quite isolated on an indvidual basis. But the Doc Review All Stars want none of this - our misfortune is their triumph, I guess.

NOTE - this is not to disparage anyone specifally still on the project, FYI, just the socially retarded misfits who see this forum as a place to kick colleagues when they are down, to seize upon it as a possible source of self esteem which they have always so sadly lacked.

Those of us who acquired our self esteem from starting a family, or building lasting friendships, or even the fact that, unlike the Doc Review All Stars, we have been known to actually have had sex, and yes probably more than once (I know this is shocking to some of you) as well as other parts of a full and fulfilling life. So don't worry about us, we'll survive. Yes, it may be difficult, but we will eventually learn to live without being packed like sardines into a too small workplace, featuring a night staff that is unaware of the invention of the vacuum and gave many of us alleries and god knows what else by their failure to even try to LOOK like they were making sanitary conditions. And yes, Renee's emails... poetry, sheer poetry.

Yes, though it may be hard, we will try, TRY, as much as we will always miss it and hold it in our heart, we will try to face the departuare of Quinn Emanuel document review from our lives with as much grace and digmnity as we can must....

Good luck... to us all....we must be brave and hold back those tears.

Now, 9:12, get back to work! You think that mouse is just gonna point and click itself? Work that genius!

Anonymous said...

Ha! nice post above

Anonymous said...

re: last comment, whenever I referred to the poster "9:12" I meant 3:37 - u know, the one who is so glad to enjoy his doc review without any "sorry ass people" like those of us who read this blog.

Anonymous said...

ep slime put a posting on craigslist today again promising substantial OT: why didnt they just call the ones who got the boot from QE?

Major national firm seeks 5+ NY admitted attorneys for a one to two month review.
The rate is $35 per hour, plus time and one half for overtime, which should be substantial.
The position starts IMMEDIATELY so please email your resume ASAP (do NOT click on "Apply Now") in RTF format to and refer in the "Subject" line to the "Document Review" project.

also did anyone go on last sundays ep dine "all nighter" project???

Anonymous said...

Yes, I did go on the all nighter. I was also let go and they called me for this one too.

DocReviewDissident said...

People should check their timesheets too. I have a friend who was on this assignment, and he told me that mornings when he was locked out of the room waiting for a supervisor, or when he had trouble logging in because their review software was always down, his supervisor deducted that time, taking adavantage of the fact that he's no longer there to argue the point. Isn't that like "the final insult"?

I got called for that assignment in June but I had heard too many sketchy things about EP Dine. Now I am sort of tempted to respond to that new CL ad just to see how they try to sell it!

The real problem is document review itself. The longer you stay in it, odds are you will end up in situations like this. I do it too, but I am looking to get out, even if it takes time and effort and a bit of savings. Sometimes, the good assignments are worst because they lull you into a false sense of security.

Anonymous said...

yeah. now lex is staffing a project with quinn emmanuel with the promise of substantial OT only after working 40 hr weeks to determine if the contract attys have a grasp of the subject matter. let the countdown begin.

Anonymous said...

i was on the epdine cadwalader one night gig. 22hrs straight. the firm treated us like gold.

Anonymous said...

Wow! They treated you like gold while you worked 22 hours straight on a Sunday. I dare to dream that I will get a call from E P Slime on a Sunday morning to go work at Cadwalader for 22 hours straight and be treated like gold also.

Anonymous said...

To New Quinn Emanuel/Lexolution Temps:
A friend of mine has reported that Lexolution has squeezed a lot of computers into a small space for your Monday arrival. Get ready to live like a sardine. In fact, the space, according to my information, is a firetrap. Also, the bathrooms are tiny, and the two elevators in the security challenged building are small and slow.
It appears that Lexolution has gone the sweatshop route of Update et al. Be Forewarned.

Anonymous said...

Any update on the rebirth of the epslime quin emmanuel project with lex?

Anonymous said...

Only that the FDNY almost shut it down today. LOL

Anonymous said...


Anonymous said...

I am serious. Lexolution crowded fifty eight people into a room on top of each other with only one exit. The fire marshals came and would have shut down the place but for the fact that Lex was able to open up another exit in the back of the room by removing a segment of a wall. We were told not to show up today until 10am because they had electrical problems. Overcrowding and electrical problems-recipe for disaster?

Anonymous said...

Hey does anyone know if the survivors of the EP Dine "downsizing" are working in the same space as their new (and better paid) Lexolution colleagues? That would just be PERFECT!

Anonymous said...

7:02- yes, they are. Everyone's all together.

Anonymous said...

I would just like to note, as one of the EP Dine temps who clearly didn't kiss enough ass to avoid being downsized, it gives me great pleasure to hear about the current conditions on the project, especially since my desk at the new assignment I immediately got is roughly the same aize as an entire row on that horrific Quinn project...


OK i admit it - it is REALLY immature, but everyone i know who's NOT on the Quinn gig is currently having a big laugh over this.... Everyone enjoying all that "substantial" overtime? Things must REALLY be "Ramping Up" now, right?


Enjoy Renee's emails about the propper coding of calendar entries!!! The rest of us plan on remembering this travesty of an assignment and the scumbags at EPSlime and now Lexolution for bringing it to us...

How's that "ramping up" coming?

Anonymous said...

piss on them

Anonymous said...

more people quit today amid an announcement of internet access being shut off starting next week.

No overtime, lots of "shadows" watching us.

No hope, someone get me out of my sardine can.... any other projects out there?

Anonymous said...


Does anyone remember this poster from about two weeks back, when the original "downsizing" began?

"I have a friend on the Quinn project and he's working overtime. It just took awhile to get started, and they're only allowing the best reviewers to work overtime."

OK, whoever wrote that informed comment, could you ask your "friend" how he feels about being one of "the BEST reviewers" now!

Or how about this one, explaining why the people who got downsized (DESPITE being loyal to the project and not complaining like some others)really deserved what they got?

"There were also some very strange people who were inappropriate."

Well, as i am surfing the internet billing unlimited OT while you ass-kissing trolls who stayed on the Quinn project by being moles for EP Slime or Renee Queen Bitch Bea, making comments like that, suffer these latest indignities, I can only say THANK YOU GOD FOR MAKING ME SO STRANGE AND INNAPROPRIATE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Anonymous said...


Anonymous said...

What about Lexolution - Dick(Head) Osman and Scott Krow-shits? Don't forget them. How about adding them to your Agency Shitlist, Tom?

And how about adding Quinn Emanuel to your firm shitlist?

You've been a little lax lately, Tom!! Don't let them win!

Anonymous said...

Osman & Krowitz are two of the sleaziest guys I've ever dealt with. At first, I thought they were nice guys, but it didn't take long to figure out that it was all just an act. They will lie to you if it suits their end.

Anonymous said...

Methinks Tom is one of the people still working there, and doesn't want to make the whole thing worse, like when he posted this entry in the first place.

No blame to Tom, but when he posted that, we had problems getting OT but otherwise things were pretty relaxed. But within a week of his posting (Clearly showing that Tom himself, or whoever else contributes to this blog, was ON this project), THAT'S when the shit hit the fan - the software changes, the "downsizing", and all that week the associates were having LOTS of private meetings, and Renee herself never even showed up.

I can tell you i heard thru the grapevine that EVERYONE at Quinn read that post. (That's one of the reasons I try to insult and belittle Renee whenever possible BTW - it makes me smile to think of her sour lemon face reading it.)

We will hear from Tom when he finally gets canned too. But for now, TOM - IF YOU ARE READING THIS. Next time, maybe you ought to be more discreet. I don't mind so much b/c that project in retrospect is one of the worst i have ever been on (which makes me wonder too, IF you stayed on it, Tom, why?) Getting canned was the best thing that ever happened to me it turned out. But, good or bad, a lot of people on that project i know are having a lot more trouble paying bills at 0 hours a week than they ever did at the mere 40 hours w/ no OT available!

So while I'll bash EP Slime and Quinn as far as I possibly can, I would think twice about blabbing inside info about ANY future assignment unless we are talking egregious misconduct - which you could do other things about than write a blog.

That's all Tom. If you're reading this , I still thank you every day for starting this blog. We really do just want you back!

Anonymous said...

Dunno Osman but Scott Krowitz is so full of shit he squeaks. Listen closely next time you see him, if you can bear the stench long enough....

Anonymous said...

To the anonymous Marxist ranting about non-existent white privilege:

You are an idiot. There are plenty of lower working-class whites who are superior in academic performance to minorities of a more middle to upper-class suburban background who will be rejected by firms for the latter in the name of diversification. There are blacks and Hispanics who, if white, would not even make it to law school on account of their terrible LSAT scores if not for institutionalized racial preferences granted on account of affirmative action policies. Poorer whites have it tougher as they have to perform at a level superior to upper-class minorities and equal to upper-class whites for any consideration. Minorities of any class background can be mediocre at best and still make it.

Anonymous said...

Oh great, now we sink to racist class warfare. 2:18 am you are an idiot. Too stupid to understand this is exactly the result desired by the ruling classes.

On the other hand, as I recently read, "Never argue with an idiot. He/She will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience."

Anonymous said...

9:41, 2:18 is correct.

With my high school grades and SAT scores, I probably could've gone to an Ivy League college if I was black. (Yes - "black". I refuse to use the asinine, long-winded P.C. term "African American.") Instead, I had to go to an OUT-OF-STATE state college, because I also couldn't get into my home state school because of Affirmative Action. )I knew minorities from my high school with worse grades and SATs who go into my home-state school).

As far as law school, I'm honestly not sure my college grades and LSATs were good enough for an Ivy League school. But, again, I'm pretty sure they would've been if I was black.

Why is it that any time anyone tries to objectively discuss race, the effects of Affirmative Action, "diversity," and racial quotas, the discussion has to be chilled by some nincompoop throwing around the terms "racist" or "racism?"

Try reading a few books on the topic. Start with "Paved With Good Intentions" by Jarred Taylor.

Note: this isn't an indictment of individual blacks or minorities. This is an indictment of a system which, in the name of correcting "past wrongs," commits "current wrongs."

I guess convential wisdom is incorrect - two wrongs evidentally DO make a right.

Anonymous said...

Oh, and to correct that first paragraph above before any geniuses try to question my intelligence:

There should be a "(" at the beginning of that first parenthetical sentence, not a ")".

And that should read "...GOT into my home state school."

I hit "PUBLISH" instead of "PREVIEW," by accident.

Anonymous said...

12:09 and again 12:14, don't make excuses - you're obviously dumb and possibly retarded. So the only thing I have to say to you about two wrongs eventually making a right is: once again you are wrong. Two wrong makes us even. And that is what affirmative action is suppose to do. Blacks were held back while Whites got the lead in the race. Now Whites will be held back to let Blacks catch up. Don't blame the system blame your ancestors. Maybe they should have just left Blacks in Africa instead of being so damn lazy then Blacks could not take your place in school. But then again if you didn't have Blacks in U.S. the U.S. would never have become a superpower. If you know anything about history you'll see that all civilizations are built of the backs of others. The Soviet Union, China, and India however didn't go and get people from a different land. You owe Blacks a lot so pay up and just shut up!

Anonymous said...

6:20 - My white ancestors didn't do anything to blacks. They were peasants who came here in the early 20th century and were abused by the privileged class, just like blacks have been. My father was the first in my family, both on his side AND on my mother's side, to go to college.

So why do I have to accept guilt/responsibility for something that neither I nor my ancestors did?

We owe blacks nothing!

Anonymous said...

620, your a fkin halfwit. put another bullet in the chamber and pull the trigger twice.

Anonymous said...

You owe Blacks for the fact that they created this great Civilization that your ancestors were so eager and willing to come here and make a better living for themselves. You owe Blacks because had it not been for the fact that they served as reference point that created two groups where all European ethnic groups could be lumped into that we term as White; whereas Blacks were kept away from assimilating your group was discrimated against for a small period of time. Blacks were lynched, there successful towns and business burned and legally prevented until 1964 Civil Rights Act from bettering themselves while you got to think of yourself as better. Without Blacks you may still have been despised as Irish or Italian (or whatever your nationality is) instead of being considered White. So without Blacks you would probably continue to be treated as inferior. But because of Blacks you benefited from the advantages that others with your skin color availed themselves at the expense of Blacks. Unlike your family, Blacks did not choose to be here. Now, because you benefited from it, you will pay it back. If you don't like that, pick up and take your family from whence you came. 6:30 PM, you obviously have nothing of value to say so I will not dignify your comment with a response.

Anonymous said...

There are plenty of flights to Africa every day. If the "racist" U.S.A. ain't for you, go live there. You'll be a Big Shot with your J.D.

You really swallowed the Party Line whole, didn't you? The line your idiotic "Black Leaders" have fed you about the Whites holding you down. They have a vested interest in seeing as many Blacks as possible maintain a defensive "Victim Mentality." Only in this way can they remain in power. If you all took responsibility for yourselves, you wouldn't need them.

How about the Chinese? Their skin color is yellow, not white. They got discriminated against just as much as Blacks when they started coming here in the 1800s. But they worked hard and saved, never complaining like the Blacks continue to do.

How about the Koreans?

Read "Paved With Good Intentions" by Jared Taylor. Educate yourself before you just spit out the party line verbatim.

Anonymous said...

two words, Al Sharpton. enough said

Anonymous said...

yeah!! if he hates whites so much, why does he ahve a white hairdo?

Anonymous said...

can we get back to bashing hudson and how their appearance of being "for temps" is bs. they're tricksters, especially the grand wizard, a. cohen, and king chooch, a. platin.

Anonymous said...

allan cohen sounds like sol rosenberg from 'the jerky boys'.

don't forget about julie zuckerberg - all four feet of her. does anyone know what a female napoleon complex is called?

tom should create an award for "nastiest temp recruiters in ny." julie might develop a monopoly on it, though - ala lance armstrong with the tour de france.

Anonymous said...

yeah. i bet julie's panties have a dick hole.

Anonymous said...

so you think (s)he's a short, male cross-dresser?

just name the award the "julie zuckerberg award," then.

Anonymous said...

5:48 - read more than just one book. I haven't heard of too many Chinese or Koreans being lynched by your ancestors and probably your uncles. Although I'm sure it happened, it wasn't as systematic as that which was done to Blacks. The fact of the matter is that Blacks were here since the inception of the United States. They were considered by Southern States as 3/5th human beings in order that they may be used politically but were treated as property(I didn't see Chinese people mentioned). The 13th, 14th, 15th Amendments were America's attempts to make up for slavery. Everyone, including women and Asians, benefitted from that and the resulting Civil Rights Act. Not saying that Chinese people and especially women were not discriminated against and did not have it rough, but let's be honest here, Black people's struggle was beneficial for all Americans so I think all Americans owe Blacks a debt of gratitude. At the very least they should recognize that the cycle of poverty is not just easily broken by simply picking yourself up by the bootstrap. Especially when you've had a government that facilitated your oppression until at 1964 (arguably until much later - especially on a State level), and a private sector that discriminates consciously or subconsciously.

Moreover, after being told that you are sub-human for generations it's not hard to believe that a mother cannot convince her children that they can do more and not to see herself as a victim. It will take time, and 47 years doesn't seem like a lot of time compared to 400 years of being told the lie.

Also, Asian-Americans continued to come here just like other White immigrants. Some had better means than the other poor Americans and came to take advantage of the opportunities accorded to Americans. Most Asians were not made to believe they were worthless. If you don't believe economics has anything to do with it then consider the academic achievements of the poorer South East Asian immigrants as compared to South Korea and China. But you know what I don't expect to convince you of anything, I just needed both sides to be represented so that those who don't research for themselves would not be mislead my simple, yet seemingly sensible ideas. Now, back to our regularly scheduled bashing of Quinn Emmanuel.

Anonymous said...

Fair enough.

But when were YOU SPECIFICALLY told you were sub-human? Are there SPECIFIC instances of white people calling you SUB HUMAN? Or did you just have that drummed into your head by the "Black Studies" experts/"Black Leaders?" I think they're more racist against Blacks than any White person could be in today's world. Read on....

All I'm saying is to take responsibility for yourself as a PERSON, not as BLACK PERSON.

Think of yourself as an INDIVIDUAL, rather than as a BLACK INDIVIDUAL.

Don't give into the temptation and guilt trips foisted on you by the "Black Community" to walk in lockstep with your "Brothers & Sisters."

Only people who can act as individuals can succeed. Those who have to identify with their race because of fear are, like Spike Lee once said, "Crabs in a bucket." Once one tries to escape, the others all try to pull him/her back in.

Just like most other "leaders," "Black Leaders" have self-interest in mind. They pawn it off to their people like they're concerned about them ""getting ahead," when in reality, they're concerned with them STAYING BEHIND because that's how they keep in business.

NOTE: Only MLK was a great Black leader. He gave it all up trying. The best thing that ever happened to Jesse Jackson was being next to MLK when he got shot, for the photo op/symbolism.

I can't see your color here. You brought it up.

To me, your just another fellow temp, trying to survive.

Anonymous said...

al sharpton. enough said.

Anonymous said...

MY GOD! SHUT THE HELL UP! DAMN! A bunch of racists on all sides who make a crap-load of money compared to everybody else in the world, and all you do is sit around complaining and making racist cracks at each other! WTF?

Anonymous said...

12:20 You're right but I have to say this to 11:28.

No one is arguing that you should not take responsibility for yourself. Most Blacks understand that they have to take advantage of our present situations to make a better future (in fact, Black people are increasingly self-critical. Certain shows and even messages on BET point to that fact. Those of you who watch BET will know what I'm talking about whether you agree with the methods or not) but, what I am arguing is that you should not make light of past because it is what accounts for the present. A lot of Black people don't subscribe to the antequated views of self-proclaimed Black leaders. But to pretend that MLK wasn't shot in '68 and that many Black parents were not called sub-human in one form or another is just denial. And to pretend that many of the Black parents who were discriminated against and forced to cycle around in poverty because of their skin color are not going to pass that mentality on to their children is just naive. It's not because "Black leaders" may use the race card sometimes to the point of absurdity, it is because it is true.

Like I said 47 years (arguably less).... Blacks payed a high price to help make this country great while being held back. At the very least we can pay it back. BTW, I didn't bring up race, someone up there did when they argued against affirmative action and "Blacks" not "African-Americans" taking their slots in law school.

Anonymous said...

P.S. Blacks will see themselves as individuals when America sees them as individuals - racial profiling; Black sounding names on resume profiling; and other forms of overt discrimination you will never understand because you don't live it. All you're going to say is overcome the obstacles. Well, yeah, that doesn't mean don't acknowledge them. If you don't acknowledge them then you will not be prepared to overcome them. And just cause I may be an individual doesn't mean I shouldn't acknowledge my heritage whether it is Irish, Italian, German, or African.

Anonymous said...

You are being paid back--at the expense of higher-qualified non-blacks.

Anonymous said...

i wish i manifested in the flesh on a different planet. this planet is annoying.

in the meantime, i'm going to have a dna test to see if there's any possibility that i'm black. i want to go to that damn black job fair!!

Anonymous said...

al sharpton. enough said

Anonymous said...

how can any blacks take al sharpton seriously with his white hairdo?

he should let his afro grow in. then he'll be legit.

Anonymous said...

2:21, I don't acknowledge that there are any obstacles.

Obviously, you do. Agree to disagree.

But, I think you'd feel like a new person, like a weight was removed from your shoulders, if you'd stop carrying the burden of your parents and/or ancestors problems. Those are their problems, not yours. And most of them are dead, anyhow - it doesn't matter to them anymore. Why should it matter to you?

(I hope your parents are alive and well - don't take that the wrong way.)

Use what you've got! If it doesn't work, change it!

If you feel that a black-sounding name is a hinderance, change it to something neutral-sounding! Then no one can pre-judge you from a resume. But that won't help having the TTT school you might have gone to on there, which will usually get your resume thrown into the trash quicker than "Shaniqua" ever will......

Play the game! A lot of Jews did it when they were feeling persecuted. They used non-Jewish names to get themselves in the door. (Getting in the door is all you can ask for. The rest is up to you. Then you can practice nepotism like everyone else with power does.)

It's just a name! What you feel yourself to be on the inside is the important point. And people get annoyed by other people who have to wear everything on their sleeves. Be mysterious!

Anonymous said...

If you don't acknowledge that there are obstacles then you are just in denial. But the fact is that your comment shows that you do acknowledge that there are obstacles because your suggestion that Blacks try and deny/hide their race (as appose to asking that people drop their prejudices) is recognition of the fact that people discriminate. Also, what is in a name? They are not rejecting the application b/c of the name, they are rejecting it because of who that name represents. So unlike the Jewish person with White skin, when Blacks show up for the interview, there is a dead give away. The fact is Black people are moving up whether its through music, sports, business or professional work. A lot more work needs to be done, but it is being done. And expecting people to leave their parents issues behind when it is their parents that are teaching them to become who they will be is just not probable. A lot of Black people are exposed to things outside of their neighborhoods and colleges when they go off to school. They become productive members of society instead of a blemish on it. I really feel like I shouldn't have to defend Black people after all they've been through, but I figure this should be discussed because that is how we come to an understanding. I'm for affirmative action because I think a people in general need assistance instead of assuming they will make it out despite the obstacles. If we didn't have job fairs where diversity was emphasized then we may have gotten rejected because of our names or our skin color when they show up for the interview. Maybe some more qualified non-Blacks do suffer because of it, but tell that to all the baseball players before Jackie Robinson; tell that to the doctor who performed the first heart transplant (forgot his name but look on HBO: Something the Lord Made); and many other qualified people who are also rejected because they are Black. The way I see it, when we are truly even we won't need affirmative action any more. It's unfortunate that White, especially have to feel the same kind of discrimination, but at least it's not also accompanied by internecine violence. That's the last I'll say on this so you have the last word.

Anonymous said...

I find it so funny that the same people who are asking that African-Americans take responsibility for their own fate are the same people decrying the system for holding them down!!! That is funny!!! What hipocrites. How are you different than these "Black Leaders" when you keep making yourself the victim! Listen Stop Making Excuses and crying WAH WAH WAH!!! The world is not fair, I want to be from a different planet! WAH! If you don't want to live on this planet, become a Heaven's Gate member and off yourself when a comet comes flying above the earth. Maybe then you'll be the minority on planet YourAnus and go to diversity fairs where your dumb ass can get a permanent job. Get over yourselves LOSER, last I looked the world was still controlled by the White people - politically and economically. So if you're not doing well, it may quite possibly be YOUR FAULT! If you were exceptional then you wouldn't be competing with unqualified Blacks or dumb White people with rich fathers - Your President for example. Toodles!

Anonymous said...

Toodles? halfwit

Anonymous said...

9:51, you read what I posted wrong.

I wrote that I don't acknoweldge that Blacks have anymore obstacles to overcome.

Then I wrote that if YOU FEEL that your "black-sounding" name is an obstacle, then change it.

I NEVER conceded that a "black-sounding" name on your resume is an obstacle. I NEVER stated that this was an objective truth.

I believe that in the year 2007, Blacks make their race more of an obstacle that it is in reality. It's a conditioned response to failure/rejection in the world, conditioned by what is taught by "Black leaders" and by the possibly very real bad experiences of your Black parents' generation that was taught to you as Gospel truth.

(NOTE: Everyone fails/gets rejected sometimes. Even the whitest of the White. It's a universal human experience.)

I DO concede that a third-tier law degree on your resume IS an obstacle to obtaining associate positions at quality firms (non-ambulance chasing or insurance defense). I concede that this is what gets your resume thrown in the garbage, not a "Black sounding" name.

So if you need to blame something for rejection, blame that instead. It might be closer to the reality of the situation.

Anonymous said...

"...[P]ossibly real bad experiences of your Black parents' generation that was taught to you as Gospel truth." Wow dude! I think we can call that ignorance....What exactly is taught as Gospel truth? That discrimination and racism exists? So your belief is that in 2007 America has eradicated all forms of racism and discrimination? We cannot call that belief denial. No, that just won't do. That belief is just pure idiotic.

You ever think that the possible bad experiences of the Black parents' generation - you know experiences like being rejected from a well paying job because of their race - may have been the catalyzing event that started the chain reaction leading to the Black person being under-prepared to enter anything but a third-tier law school?

Oh, and yes, White people get rejected too for various reasons. The Whitest of the White are poor too. And, yes, statistics show that economic factors play a roll in whether someone goes to a third-tier law school or not. See but even though one can overcome all these obstacles, I'm not making a claim that the obstacles don't exist.

Also, the only problem Black people have with being rejected because of their race is that there is nothing that they will be able to do within their lifetimes to change that factor. So the only choice they have is to just try again and hope the next person doesn't have something against Black people.

Whether you believe it doesn't happen or not doesn't matter cause it is quite clear that you are just bitter about not having a permanent job and so instead of blaming the third-tier law school on your resume, it is more convenient to blame affirmative action.

Lastly, you can rephrase your statements as many times as you want but the truth is your last comment shows that you believe that being Black is an obstacle: "Blacks make their race more of an obstacle that it is in reality." Well, you know what? Perhaps you are right. Perhaps Blacks do make their race more an obstacle than is the reality, but at least you realize that in reality it is an obstacle. Maybe there's hope for you after all. I recommend you send that resume one more time.

Anonymous said...

1:02 - Once again, you misinterpreted what I wrote.

"In 2007, Blacks make their race more of an obstacle than it is in reality."

Based on that sentence, how could you twist my words to assert that I somehow believe that, in 2007 reality, Blacks face obstacles based on their race?

In 2007 reality, your Black-ness isn't an obstacle. It's an ASSET, given Affirmative Action, Diversity, EOE, etc.

Blacks make their race a self-created obstacle, perpetuated by the teachings/indocrination of their "leadership." If you believe in something strong enough, it becomes your reality. Read Napoleon Hill. Read Anthony Robbins (I know he's a goober, but he makes some good points.)

But perhaps Blacks keep harping on their race because they want to make sure they keep Whites feeling guilty in perpetuity for "past wrongs" that none of us committed.

You believe what you want, I'll believe what I want.

I believe I'm correct. You can believe you're correct.

I refuse to feel guilty for something I didn't do. Nor did my ancestors do it.

I'll treat you equally and disagree with you equally, just as I'd do with a White person.

Don't look to me to patronize you or tell you you're "correct" for P.C. purposes when I believe you're incorrect.

I believe your beliefs are disempowering to yourself. You can believe they're "empowering" if you want, although I'm not sure how you'd be able to draw that conclusion.

Anonymous said...

Your words again: "In 2007, Blacks make their race more of an obstacle than it is in reality."

The opperative words are: "more of an obstacle...." If you wanted to say it wasn't an obstacle at all you could have said: 'In 2007, Blacks make their race an obstacle when in reality it is not.'

But it doesn't matter because we in fact do disagree. I think you are fighting an obvious truth simply so you can say you don't have to feel guilty. That way you can continue to argue how unfair it is that in 2007 being Black is an asset and by logical extension being White is the obstacle. So that line of argument is nothing short of hypocracy.

The empiracle study shows that people of similar backgrounds are rejected because of Black sounding names. This is not something that is made up by "Black leaders." So your argument about third-tier schools only apply to you. It is you who should have done better in school so that you did not attend a third-tier school. Because the reality is your other White colleagues who are working in top NY Law firms were able to make it despite the reverse discrimination thrust upon them and the numbers show that they were able to make it by numbers far exceeding what the minorities with all their advantages were able to do. So the fact is you are the one disempowering yourself with such beliefs aimed only at making protecting your ego for your own failures. When you've learned to take responsibility for your actions as certain Blacks should, you and they, both should do much better.

Don't patronize me, but don't be stupid. Saying being Black is not an obstacle but an asset is just stupid....

And the fact that race is an obstacle doesn't mean White people should feel guilty. I am under the same belief as you that it is up to Black people to pull themselves up; there dignity requires i. But I am under no illusion that there is no obstacle.

Anonymous said...

4:19 - Did you even read what I wrote? Obviously, you didn't, because you tried to dissect my words into the same misinterpretation that you dissected them into after I clarified them.

Maybe if I write it more clearly:



Is it clear now what I believe to be true? Is there any room for you to misinterpret what I've written?

By the way - It's "empirical," not "empiracle."

And it's "hypocrisy," not "hypocracy."

To what EMPIRICAL study do you refer?

And how do you know I went to a third-tier school? Or that I'm blaming my schooling for not getting a lucrative associate job? Or that I even WANT a lucrative associate job? Did I write that? Or did I just use "third-tier law degree" as an example in comparison to black-sounding names to illustrate that THAT is what gets your resume thrown in the trash, not the name "Shaniqua?"

I don't expect you to know what I wrote, given that you can't seem to understand what I meant by my earlier statements, even after I explained them.

And I'm not trying to avoid guilt for being White. I simply don't feel guilt for the "plight of the American Black." Neither I, nor my White peasant ancestors, did anything to you or your Black ancestors. Nil, nothing nada.


Ponder that for a few days before responding. And keep a dictionary handy to spell check.

Anonymous said...

You may have done nothing but you benefited. If you don't feel guilt - I don't care. But affirmative action is here. It is the only reparation we have for helping to create this great nation free of charge. We are proud that we have fought to make this country the free and fair place that it now claims to be such that people from all over the world want to come here. We will take our payment for that and if you have a problem with that, then what you should do is teach your children to pay attention in school because their White skin is asset enough that they don't have to end up in a third-tier law school like their father did. This way they don't end up as bitter as you are and have an associate position - LOSER!

Anonymous said...

attention intellectual misfits,
quit hating. instead take a hit from the peace spliff.
arguing deep shit, with a shallow mentality, just shows how inept you truly are in the world called reality.
recruiters are vamps, some even tramps, but look around...most doc reviewers have faulty head lamps.
i'll just continue to make that buck...and if you don't like it, take a suck, on my freckled beanbag, u halfwit fuck!

Anonymous said...


Would that be considered "Gangsta Rap"??

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