Sunday, February 12, 2006

Round 2

And The Great Project Resumes......

43 comments:

Anonymous said...

the project re-starts tomorrow? when did you find out? i wonder why i wasn't notified?

Anonymous said...

I don't get it. You created a forum for people to air their grievances, names were named, the people causing the grievances got their feelings hurt... and that's it?? The whole thing shuts down?

I feel very sorry for you. I can only imagine what you were threatened with that you had to step down to this degree. I hope you enjoyed your voice, while you had one.

Anonymous said...

you really are a loser!

Anonymous said...

If you want to run a cheap, gossip site where everyone flames each other out and nothing gets done, start your own blog. I am trying to address real issues here. If any firm/agency promises to make a good faith effort to respond to peoples' complaints in an adequate way, I am willing to give them a second-chance. If they fail, however, I will be right back on their tails.
-- and no, I was not threatened. If I were believe me I wouldn't be placating them. I say give them another chance.

TTT

Anonymous said...

you were totally threatened with something. And you backed down at the first sign of trouble. It is obviously that you can dish it out, but you can't take it.

Anonymous said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Anonymous said...

So why is Big XYZ firm sharing a fee billed to a client for Atty Doc Review with a staffing agency not a violation of the rule against sharing a fee with non lawyers?

Anonymous said...

You are doing a great job TTT. These agencies needed to be exposed especially Update for their unethical blood-sucking behavior. Keep up the good-work. Its not clear if you're going back to the Kirkland project, are you? I am going back (its a means to an end). They really need to do something about the bathroom which are absoutely disgusting and inadequate. (Update, I know you're reading consider this notice).

Anonymous said...

TTT- you are doing a great job and I trust your judgment in rewarding those who take some decent steps toward improvement. My guess is that the owls won't be there tomorrow.

I suppose if that Anita woman and her Eunuch pal finally found out about this site, they might have had their feelings hurt. But given the way they are acting, I think it's about time they were exposed to how people really think of them.

As for the Update staffer who posted here, I can also see why her feelings were hurt. But people finally had a forum to air their general grievances against Update, and of course some people are going to xpress a lot of anger. Nevertheless, I respect the woman for coming forward, and I hope more people at agencies share her principles.

Anonymous said...

RE: Fee Sharing with Non Lawyers -
Help wanted - Posted @ monster -

XYZ Legal Staffing Company
New York, NY 10036
Legal Placement Consultant

Do you thrive in a fast-paced environment? Do you love outperforming your own personal best? We are a large placement firm that has an exciting opportunity in our legal staffing department.

We seek a high-energy, self-motivated leader with excellent interpersonal, communication and customer service skills to join our dynamic team in Midtown Manhattan. You will wear many hats as you recruit and screen candidates, review resumes, fill job orders, troubleshoot, problem solve, provide quality control, build candidate relationships, and manage the staffing process from start to finish. Must have ability to juggle multiple tasks, work under pressure, meet deadlines and maintain a sense of humor.

If you are responsible, dedicated, flexible, and fun; if you believe in exceeding expectations; if you love people and the phone, then we want to hear from you!

Must have the ability to multitask. Looking for a hardworking, high energy people person!

We offer a competitive compensation, bonus package, and great benefits.

-Note NO MENTION OF A JD being required

Anonymous said...

Whatever happened to Journalism? Do you not see how seriously you have compromised the power of your voice and how you quickly just lost credibility with those who actually read this blog? The moment someone throws you a bone, all the comments get deleted. Some of the points raised by your readers whether supportive, critical or tangential were nevertheless factual and contributed ultimately to an earnest dialoque on the subject of interim staffing in the legal serviced industry and the preservation of humane and professional working conditions. What you just did is akin to a Union Organizer calling for a strike, signing everyone up and then being the first putz to cross the picket line. Norma Rae, you are not. Just another shmuck who does not look at the big picture.

Anonymous said...

"Some of the points raised by your readers whether supportive, critical or tangential were nevertheless factual and contributed ultimately to an earnest dialoque on the subject of interim staffing in the legal serviced industry and the preservation of humane and professional working conditions"

Some points were well taken. Other points (eg. "I am going to ejaculate in your face") were completely out of line. I am not going to allow this board to turn into a platform where people can just come on and scream out obscenities and anonymously attack other temps/people.

If you are unhappy with the conditions at your project fine -- write your grievances down and give evidence. If you want to unionize/strike fine, give us reasons why. Cheap, ad-hominem attacks, however, that serve no legitimate purpose and are just designed to inflame a situation will not be tolerated.

TTT

Anonymous said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Anonymous said...

There was another alternative my friend than capitulating, letting a couple of agencies pat you in the head and promise that things will get better. You in effect allowed the agencies to silence you. Once your focus becomes "logging ISP addresses" and otherwise silencing legitimate critique of agencies and firms engaged in employment practices which undercut the value of human labor and are otherwise inhumane than you have been defeated. At some point in time, someone will create a credible online board. I for one sincerely recommend to anyone who comments here NEVER TO LOG ON OR COMMENT TO THIS SITE FROM ANY EMPLOYER, LEGAL OR OTHERWISE.

Anonymous said...

I am not silenced.

People are waking up. People are standing up and demanding to be treated with respect.

You are never going to have a "credible" message board if certain basic rules are not followed.

ttt

Anonymous said...

what happened to your post where you stated that legal proceedings had been threatened against you? a lot of people rallied behind you. I think you should leave that post up, just to show the whole story of what happened on this site, how powerful the big players in any field really are, and why admittedly "seriously problematic" conditions still exist.

btw, i definitely thank you for what you wrote the past week or so. it has encouraged me to pursue something better than law, rather than try to break into the temp market where the abuses seem rampant. thank you for sharing.

Anonymous said...

OK enough of this....

NO ONE IS SHARING FEES!!!

Damn I hate this arguement. XYZ firm is HIRING and AGENCY as they would HIRE and accountant or HIRE and investigator or whatever in a litigation matter. It would be incredibily different if the agency would be able to SHARE in the winning of fees by the firm like say 1/10 of of the firm managed to garner.

By the way TTT....you suck dude, you had us all riled up and then you folded quicker than a deck of cards way to go pal!

Anonymous said...

uh replace an instead of and...damn I suck at typing LOL

Anonymous said...

How about the agencies provide real benefits where they contribute to the costs? Update's health insurance is like $380 a month for an individual. It's near $1000 for a family. Why can't they contribute a percentage like every other employer? If they care about their employees, they should show it, by giving them what every other employer in America is expected to provide.

Anonymous said...

EXACTLY!!!!

Anonymous said...

Strike, Strike!!!

Benefits!!!!

Anonymous said...

If this project continues to be as bad as it has been, let's all agree to a work slowdown starting next week. They can replace one or two people a week but they can't replace 100. We should punish them if they mistreat us again.

Anonymous said...

We certainly got their attention, let's see what they do next. It was pretty horrible -- micromanagement, no flexibility, no internet/phone use.

ny doc reviewer said...

i don't know if there is an "official" blacklist, but i'm pretty certain that your attitude/demeanor when dealing with agents and whether you left a project early or took days off is logged. large agencies most likely have scores of resumes, and the agents themselves most likely can't remember individual temps. agents have to rely on a temp's file to deal the the temp. then five minutes later, they can't remember who they just spoke to.

"temp took a day off" - it could be because the temp was lazy. it could be because the temp was at a funeral. it sucks for the hardworking temp who had to go to the emergency room or a family funeral. but to the agency, that temp is merely a name in a file. the agency simply doesn't know the circumstances of the temp's absence/reasons, nor do they care. there are simply too many files, too many temps, too many people banging on their doors. they simply can't be bothered with individual attention.

ever try to deal with the customer service department of dell computers? they have too many customers. they have no clue as to who you are. they sit there and ask the same dumb ass questions over and over again. it is frustrating, and you want to kill them all.

i guess my point is that although agencies like update have connections to high paying jobs, they lack in the individual attention to temps department, simply because of the sheer amount of files they have. plus, the attention they spend on one temp who has special needs might be wasted if there are two temps who are easy going and don't ask for much.

perhaps if temps seek out smaller agencies and try to forge a relationship with agents in those agencies, their personal needs might be met, as these smaller agencies might be more inclined to work harder to keep their business afloat. they care more if their temps leave to work for other agencies. the big market leaders aren't going to give you attention or care if you have legitimate problems. they don't need to.

so the solution to keeping the large, established agencies accountable is to leave them in droves for agencies who are willing to work hard to keep you happy. then resume mills like update *will* have to care to woo us back and listen to us if they want to stay afloat.

just some random thoughts.

Anonymous said...

who wants to start a new blog, because this moron is a sell out!!

Anonymous said...

" who wants to start a new blog, because this moron is a sell out!!"

TTT let you post that comment, didn't he?

Other temps, inspired by Tom, have set up blogs, and Tom has ecouraged us to post there. If Tom thinks moderating his posts is the best way to make change, then I support him. But if you don't, just move on.

Anonymous said...

"perhaps if temps seek out smaller agencies and try to forge a relationship with agents in those agencies, their personal needs might be met, as these smaller agencies might be more inclined to work harder to keep their business afloat. they care more if their temps leave to work for other agencies. the big market leaders aren't going to give you attention or care if you have legitimate problems. they don't need to."

I think this is a great idea. My resume is one with one agency now, but I'm planning to send it to all of them. I think I have an idea of which agencies I will start with and which will be last on my list.

Anonymous said...

TTT says that he has not been silenced, on one hand who can blame him, he like many of us has to eat, and was probably feeling some heat which could have undermined his ability to remain anonymous and contine to collect a pay check. This is why it will ultimately be imperative to set up a more anonymous Craigslist type board, rather than entrusting your soul to the agenda of any one blogger. There was substantive commentary regarding the practices of certain firms that was deleted. If a certain firm has a practice of trying to get TEMPS to forfeit earned wages for leaving jobs, would it not be useful for someone to consider whether they want to work with such agency. If nothing else is clear, no firm has a LOCK on any jobs anymore. And those of you who are hard working, have good resumes and are in good standing on projects where you have someone's ear, let them know that there are certain agencies you prefer not to work with. The better law firms prefer to work with boutiques anyway, where they have some better client service. Patronize those who serve as legitimate agents and expend time and energy putting deals together. The "resume mills" will ultimately lose market share. Trust me

Anonymous said...

CALLING IN SICK: Obviously calling in sick may result in the need to have you replaced if it is early on in a project or on the eve of a start date, but it should not result in anyone being blacklisted. Some firms encourage people to go into work sick, with the implied threat of being replaced or blacklisted. That is a bad policy. This is self serving in the short term. In many cases results in multiple people getting infected with that temps sickness as a result of the intrusion of the trooper temps germs infiltrating the work place. Many interim staffers prefer not to have too much downtime. How about a presumption in the Temp's favor because in Temp jobs if you do not show up you do not get paid. If on top of that you have to contend with some whipper snapper putting an X on your file, that kind of blows.

Anonymous said...

I think the industry as a whole has a problem. I have been reading your blog, you could have been writing about conditions in the DC market.
There is no incentive for any agency to do better (provide us with better wages or benefits). The agencies will always have bodies to fill their seats.

Anonymous said...

There are some firms who will consider candidates directly or a second alternative is that since several agencies ultimately get the same listings, have the agent you prefer submit your resume for a particular job. As long as that agency is on the Approved List of Outside Vendors, if the firm likes your resume, they will see you anyway. Also keep in mind that the agency maintaining a BLACK LIST does not necessarily have the best candidates to provide employers. Said agency is known more for being VOLUME PROVIDER on large projects. On some level, everyone is either a "Pimp" or "Ho"...if you do not like "ho'ing" for the man then do something about it and BECOME THE MAN! The schmucks placing you are not any smarter than you are. They just figured out that they can make more money off of you than being you. Keep that in mind.

Anonymous said...

Tom the Temp you suck!!! I am on your project and you betrayed us!!

http://pissedofftemp.blogsome.com/

Anonymous said...

so, it's over?? i'm so hurt! well, i thought this was a good thing and i would so like to know how it goes going forward. what does it mean, people saying you folded? i wanna know what happened!

Anonymous said...

so, it's over?? i'm so hurt! well, i thought this was a good thing and i would so like to know how it goes going forward. what does it mean, people saying you folded? i wanna know what happened!

Anonymous said...

I would like to respond to ny doc reviewer by letting him know his statement could not be more false. Agencies, such as Update, know their candidates better than you would imagine. Don't underestimate their knowledge. Their job is to know their clients AND their candidates. They would not be successful if they did not possess this quality. They remember the temps who work their hardest and they remember the temps that goof off, behave in an unprofessional manner, and are continuously absent. There is no blacklist; however, if your name is associated with:

1. Frequently being absent and/or late ( this does mean on a regular
basis, not a few times).

2. Being overly talkative where it hinders your work product and those of others around you

3.Having a negative attitude to the point of saying inappropriate and disrespectful comments to your co-workers, employers (and remember these agencies you despise so much are your employers), and/or firms.

4. Breaching any kind of contract you have ever signed.

5. Creating a hostile work environment.

None of these things go unnoticed. It doesn't place you on any mythical "blacklist", but it does make it much more difficult to convince a client that you should be placed on their assigment with such a poor track record. These things hold true in any position. If any person in any company did these things (temp or permanent), they would find themselves out of work. For those of you who are on assignment, give credit where credit is due. That agency you loathe so much believed in you enough to make sure you are on assignment and on their payroll. For those of you who have trouble getting any kind of work, make sure you pay attention to the list. It might explain a few things.

Just because Tom the Temp aims to create a site that is not petty and addresses the issues at hand, does not make him a traitor. Candidates are never "punished" for expressing their concerns. It's how you express them that makes the difference. Whether you want to believe it or not, agencies, such as Update, make their best effort to address any concerns any temps have. It is recognized, that without the temps, there would be no agencies. It should also be recognized that without these same agencies, you would not be working because if you didn't need them, you would not even be registered in the first place.

Anonymous said...

"Some of the points raised by your readers whether supportive, critical or tangential were nevertheless factual and contributed ultimately to an earnest dialoque on the subject of interim staffing in the legal serviced industry and the preservation of humane and professional working conditions."

I agree the majority of the comments were factual and contributed to the discussion. Some of the comments went over the line.(eg. you can't come on here and call another temp/individual a slut or a bitch. Spreading gossip about people that aren't here to defend themselves is wrong). Not only does it not further the discussion, but it is also potentially defamatory. When I have the time, I will go back through the comments section and re-post the comments that were not out of left field.

Anonymous said...

Ah hello....this is a blog! People are supposed to speak their mind! And sometimes comments due get out of hand.

Tom, I commend you for trying to keep "off color" comments to a minimum, but I really don't think you are being sincere.

Lets be honest, these horrible, horrific, terrible comments you refer to (calling someone a slut or bitch and so forth) are few, when the majority of comments bore alot of truth and needed to be expressed.

I strongly believe someone threatened you (perhaps its was...oh I don't know...Update maybe...I am just guessing, since that has really been the only agency in question here) and you backed down at the first sign of trouble. Honestly, it is really kind of sad...

Anonymous said...

Let free speech reign, don't be afraid of Update.

Anonymous said...

I worked for a legal recruiter and still keep in touch with some of my former co-workers.

There is definitely a blacklist. No doubt about it. Anyone who tells you otherwise is either totally full of it or doesn't know how these bottom-feeders (yes, I was one) really work.

Anonymous said...

"I strongly believe someone threatened you (perhaps its was...oh I don't know...Update maybe"

I assure you nobody threatened me.

TTT

Anonymous said...

TTT if nobody threatened you than why did ALL SPECIFIC FACTUAL COMMENTARY relating to certain search firm's well known policies in terms of "Blacklisting" (UPDATE LEGAL) and signing agreements with "Wage Forfeiture" Clauses (EP DINE) magically disappear? There is so much evidence out there from so many sources on these policies that these firms conduct in their ordinary course of business. This is not defamation. And even it it were TRUTH IS A DEFENSE. If unsuspecting candidates know this then they can choose to work with agencies with more reasonable policies. Agencies do not represent you. They represent the firms and the goal is for them to get labor at the lowest possible cost and not to accomodate you. Once you understand that, then you will work them much in the way that they work you. When you allow them to buy you off with trinkets, cheap booze and temporarily promising you better working conditions...then you have truly becoming the "ho" to the "pimp"

Anonymous said...

"One more thing, I am still logging ISP addresses. Any agency or agency employee that dares to come on here and defame another agency or law firm project that they are not currently apart of will be turned in. I will turn you over a)to the agency you are interfering with and b) the state licensing authority.

TTT"

First Tom, let me commend you on a great effort that COULD HAVE truly created change. I believe other posters have referenced a change in Anita almost overnight - and that was from a week or so of posts.

But as with all things where you are fighting an established industry, there are measures in place for "troublemakers" like you. By removing names and agencies you have stripped the board of any power it had for change. I think I speak for many when I say that its an insult to our intelligence for you to say you had an epiphany that the board was not being conducted properly. A 180 degree turn like the one that happened here is caused by something else (a threat most likely).

Frankly Tom I expected more. Your site was built on being honest about temps and the conditions they work under. Just be honest with us about what happened and I think a lot of people will forgive you (me included).

And responding to the naysayers with the statement about logging their ISP sounds very "agency-ish" and clearly shows you have gotten your feelings hurt and are taking this personally. The reason people are upset Tom is because they truly did care about what you were trying to do and they BELIEVED in you Tom.

Good luck to everyone in the future and my advice to Tom if he truly is disappointed in some of the commments is don't start something that you can't finish...

TempPartner said...

Craigs List (Wash DC) had a listing from an Indian agency looking for a recruiter to approach law firms. Don't know if the offer was real, but the post was there.

I have seen quite a few shocking sweatshops run by people with no management training and I have seen some really appalling temp behavior--there seems to be a link.

Those posters who think we are a bunch of whiners/losers, don't realize that after you have done temp work, firms don't hire you at the associate level. If you are lucky, you get hired as a staff attorney at an even lower rate of pay. Here in Washington, a large firm advertised for a staff attorney position at $55k/year. Do the math...

If you do challenge your working conditions or attempt to show that you think like a lawyer after all that education, you are let go and can be blacklisted. Those who have reconciled themselves to this position, have become servile suck-ups who will say nothing they are so afraid. Occasionally, someone smears feces--it's typical asylum behavior. I am waiting for the agencies/firms to medicate us. I realize that might be extreme and too much of an expense. It's easier to have a recruiter threaten the group.

I do think there is a legitimate beef with the equipment. I have seen people sitting on the floor. The lack of appropriate work stations leads to repetitive stress disorders. Programmers in California succeeded on this claim.

But, I am not in favor of unions, they hamstring your bargaining power, too. Then, you've got another group with their hand in your pocket.