tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19584611.post8945528114621887071..comments2024-03-25T04:26:39.471-04:00Comments on Temporary Attorney: The Sweatshop Edition: Toilet Law Schools Popping Up Everywhere!helpme123http://www.blogger.com/profile/09049497942793554030noreply@blogger.comBlogger67125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19584611.post-70770716343454578912013-05-14T20:24:22.595-04:002013-05-14T20:24:22.595-04:00Stop comparing a lawyer to a surgeon! Doctors have...Stop comparing a lawyer to a surgeon! Doctors have to study much harder and have expertise in science and math. That is why they paid good salaries. There is not one single math or science course in law school. You can enter law school with a basic liberal arts degree in just about anything. And even a bachelor's degree in engineering is more challenging than law school. So its odd that lawyers think they should earn lots of money for what they do.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19584611.post-55818332649841235212009-04-21T05:29:00.000-04:002009-04-21T05:29:00.000-04:00Hi,
This is a wonderful opinion. The things menti...Hi,<br /><br />This is a wonderful opinion. The things mentioned are unanimous and needs to be appreciated by everyone.<br /><br />robinson<br /><br /><A HREF="http://recruitmentagenciesjobs.com" REL="nofollow">recruitment agencies</A>robinsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05067582525541654059noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19584611.post-90406765012790806182008-07-20T01:47:00.000-04:002008-07-20T01:47:00.000-04:00All you starving solos are full of shit: 99.999999...All you starving solos are full of shit: 99.999999% of solos make less than $100,000 after business expenses and taxes. <BR/><BR/>You have high overhead and solo practice clients can't afford big legal bills because they're shit clients feeding you garbage work.<BR/><BR/>The only exception is if you're in a super-narrow niche doing biglaw work for rich clients.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19584611.post-34272859130031895782008-06-27T08:43:00.000-04:002008-06-27T08:43:00.000-04:00This problem of lawyer overproduction is not uniqu...This problem of lawyer overproduction is not unique to law school and in today's economy where jobs (including knowledge-based college-education-requiring jobs) are being outsourced overseas or filled by foreigners on H-1B or L-1 visas it is prevalent in many fields. The real problem is that our economy is no longer generating or providing solid middle class jobs for the majority of the populace which is why people are flooding into the colleges. Since a Bachelors degree is no longer sufficient, people are flooding into the graduate and professional schools in the hopes of getting a leg up on the competition.<BR/><BR/>Regardless of how much education people in mass obtain, the overall needs of the job market will remain the same. One of the issues we need to address in these regards is whether it makes sense to allow people to go to college and graduate school, spending tremendous amounts of time and money, for non-existent job positions.<BR/><BR/>I agree with the general sentiment of people on this blog--we have far too many law schools. A couple years ago I summed up the number of people who had law licenses (based on ABA stats) and then calculated how many attorneys we would have at the then current rate of about 40,000 new attorneys per year. Assuming a career of 40 years, the market would need to be able to support 1.6 million attorneys but based on the ABA licensure stats the nation only had about 750,000 attorneys.<BR/><BR/>I applaud the reporter for writing the article (which introduced me to this site) and hope that we will see more reporting in the future and that some brave politicians will step up to the plate and try to reign in the massive amount of economic waste and heartache that our society is suffering as a result of overproducing college graduates.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19584611.post-26294676125751837872008-06-23T21:57:00.000-04:002008-06-23T21:57:00.000-04:00I think the AP article attracted some people to th...I think the AP article attracted some people to this site who just want to make fun of us. Saying, "Get a job." and calling us losers. Sounds like my mom. If I can just click enough, I can move out of her house.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19584611.post-9328545396824271002008-06-23T13:43:00.000-04:002008-06-23T13:43:00.000-04:0011:11pm: I had no idea that your firm, in-house at...11:11pm: I had no idea that your firm, in-house at McDonald's, had such high standards. Live and learn I guess! I sure don't want to be reported to the bar after a law firm bills me out at attorney rates for reviewing documents.<BR/>I bet part of your compensation at McDonald's includes free, unlimited fries.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19584611.post-83122929112113711492008-06-22T11:23:00.000-04:002008-06-22T11:23:00.000-04:0011:11But if it walks like a duck, quacks like a du...11:11<BR/><BR/>But if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, has the appropriate degree of a duck, is barred like a duck--everything but getting a real job--you call it "temporary ducklike staff."<BR/><BR/>"Quack, Quack, Quack. I want a real job. The floor stinks. There's not enough windows. My coworker stinks. Why does that Chinese partner get to come down here and get whichever temporary slut he wants while all I do is click away for peanuts. Shouldn't I be a partner in a big firm by now, I graduated last May!"Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19584611.post-38864464989339686532008-06-21T23:11:00.000-04:002008-06-21T23:11:00.000-04:00If an attorney applied to my firm using the title ...If an attorney applied to my firm using the title "temporary attorney" and we found out that they were just doing document review, I bet we would refer them to the state bar for discipline. Using the term attorney conotes that the person is acting in the capacity as an attorney. Someone doing document review is not acting in the capacity of an attorney even if they happen to have a JD/law license. People doing document review might be able to use the term "temporary legal staff" or "temporary legal support," but not attorney.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19584611.post-87142916220624794662008-06-21T22:52:00.000-04:002008-06-21T22:52:00.000-04:006:53, it is whining, pure and simple. Also, I who...6:53, it is whining, pure and simple. <BR/><BR/>Also, I whole heartedly disagree with this statement "clicking on documents is a better alternative for them." This is a nice fantasy that someone might concoct if they needed to lie to themselves. <BR/><BR/>A job that requires no thought and develops no skills is not in anyone's long term interest. I can only imagine the whining on this blog when computers are able to do the document review without human supervision (which we all can probably all agree, is not too far off). <BR/><BR/>I also take issue with referring to third or fourth tier law schools toilet schools. I look back fondly on my third tier school, as I got the best legal education that I could have received anywhere and it was reasonably priced. My student loans only cost me about $300 per month (for a loan of $60,000) and I easily earn $15,000 per month (If the interest rate weren't so low, I would write a check to pay the loan off today). My pay before law school was only about $4,000 per month. Without attending my third tier law school, I would still be earning that small paycheck.<BR/><BR/>The economics of law school is that the investment will easily pay for itself many times over in the course of a lifetime for nearly every law student. It is still one of the best investments that can be made. It is easy to overlook the fact that a legal career (or any other career that is enhanced by having a law degree, whether directly or indirectly) occurs over a lifetime. Measuring it by the pay earned in the first year is nonsense. <BR/><BR/>Besides, there are no such things as a temporary attorney. There are only attorneys and non-attorneys. If an attorney feels that they have to designate themselves as a temporary attorney, then they really fall within the latter category and they should not be trying to share insights to a profession to which they do not belong.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19584611.post-65941101538273139982008-06-20T18:53:00.000-04:002008-06-20T18:53:00.000-04:00You need to read a little more carefully 10:15. T...You need to read a little more carefully 10:15. There was no whining. I was simply stating a preference. A lot of people in the temp world do not want to practice law for whatever reason and clicking on documents is a better alternative for them. Going to law school was a fall back position and they soon realized they didn't want to practice so they started temping. I appreciate that others do want to practice and feel like they are stuck in temp hell because of being in debt. If you are motivated to do something else besides clicking I am sure that most people could come up with something else. If doc review ended tomorrow, I don't think that we would all end up on the street. Temping like anything else has its downside, but when you can pull in over 100k a year it's not so bad.<BR/>Now let's get back to making fun of Anita.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19584611.post-73243302778547617692008-06-20T16:39:00.000-04:002008-06-20T16:39:00.000-04:0010:15Click for a living. Nobody cares, just pleas...10:15<BR/><BR/>Click for a living. Nobody cares, just please quit whining about it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19584611.post-25554021545628292312008-06-19T22:15:00.000-04:002008-06-19T22:15:00.000-04:00Thanks for the inspirational testimonials. Yawn! ...Thanks for the inspirational testimonials. Yawn! I would rather click for a living than deal with old people and juvenile delinquents. How about that Anita!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19584611.post-6413210046178913902008-06-19T22:00:00.000-04:002008-06-19T22:00:00.000-04:00I know that this is a sensitive topic, but I think...I know that this is a sensitive topic, but I think most attorneys can sympathize with not being able to find a job and, at the same time, having law school debt. <BR/><BR/>With that said, I do think that attorneys who do document review and who are career contract attorneys are doing themselves a great disservice. <BR/><BR/>These jobs are not permanent solutions. They can be used to fund a law practice. <BR/><BR/>I couldn't find a law job out of law school either, so I took a job as a financial planner. I did that for two years (it started at $40K a year, by the second year it paid $70K). I could have let this get me down -- but I didn't. <BR/><BR/>I looked at this as an opportunity. I studied estate planning for the entire two years. I copied all of the estate planning documents that my clients had me review. I got to know every estate planning attorney, insurance guy, broker, real estate agent, etc. in my area. <BR/><BR/>At the two year mark, I had enough saved up to live off of for a year, a full set of estate planning forms to use, an excellent grasp on what clients wanted and what they would pay, a full client base who were glad to hire me, and a big network for referrals. <BR/><BR/>I never touched my emergency fund. I have my own practice. I enjoy my job. I make good money. <BR/><BR/>My best friend has a similar story. He was doing contract work (while living on my couch). He started taking juvenile delinquency and status cases that the courts assiged to him. There wasn't a single attorney in town that was taking these cases as they only pay something like $150 a pop, so he took them all. <BR/><BR/>Then he signed up with the county and district courts to handle the probation revocation hearings. These paid something like $300 a pop and there were only a few attorneys that wanted to do this kind of work. <BR/><BR/>This kept him going long enough so that he could study criminal law, attend enough criminal trials by other attorneys, and read enough of their pleadings so that he could reproduce them. He now has a great criminal law practice. <BR/><BR/>Being a solo attorney is operating a small business. It has its benefits and its drawbacks. One of the best parts is that there is such a low barier to entry, as the start up costs are very minimal (for most areas of the law). <BR/><BR/>For those without jobs, hang in there and find a way to solve a problem. Once you have a grasp on that client problem, go out and get some cleints. Then start figuring out how to solve another client problem. You will have a full book of business before you know it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19584611.post-87809620627639066942008-06-19T18:45:00.000-04:002008-06-19T18:45:00.000-04:003:51 Ever try working for a living instead of blog...3:51 Ever try working for a living instead of blogging all day? Who do think you are -- Perez Hilton?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19584611.post-53068737818433602152008-06-19T15:51:00.000-04:002008-06-19T15:51:00.000-04:002:43, stop referencing back to yourself. We know ...2:43, stop referencing back to yourself. We know you are 10:36.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19584611.post-59791089843610620782008-06-19T14:43:00.000-04:002008-06-19T14:43:00.000-04:0010:36 I totally agree. This is the problem with t...10:36 I totally agree. This is the problem with temp attorneys. Many of them make over $100,000 a year and have no skill set. Ask a typical temp about his or her job and they'll tell they just look for the buzzwords and a lawyer's name or lawfirm's name. They then click Not Responsive, Responsive or Privileged. That's the sum of their whole job. The rest of the time they play on the internet. Do they bring in clients? No. Do they even remember the FRCP, let alone know how to use it? No. Do they know how to research and write federal court quality motion papers? No. Do they know how to take a federal deposition? No. Do they know to evaluate a case for trial or settlement? No. Do they know how to settle a case? No. Do they know to try a case or argue an appeal? No. Contract attorney know very little. They are a necessary evil -- necessary to shift through piles of junk to find the few responsive and/or privileged docs. Too many contract attorneys confuse being necessary with being important. A sanitation worker is necessary for civilization but the sanitation worker isn't dumb to think that he or she is important.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19584611.post-65118452952718630302008-06-19T10:12:00.000-04:002008-06-19T10:12:00.000-04:009:02AMThanks for correcting the error--you're good...9:02AM<BR/><BR/>Thanks for correcting the error--you're good for something. Now get your ass over there and proofread that contract, you piece of shit.<BR/><BR/>You don't have ventilation because nobody gives a fuck. If you smell piss it is because someone pissed on the floor. Why would we pay your minimum wage to someone else to clean it up.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19584611.post-70832224001803634602008-06-19T09:02:00.000-04:002008-06-19T09:02:00.000-04:0012:51 AM"Grammer school arithmatic"12:51 AM<BR/><BR/><BR/><BR/>"Grammer school arithmatic"Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19584611.post-54885212409998300912008-06-18T22:53:00.000-04:002008-06-18T22:53:00.000-04:00Hi, Joan King!Hi, Joan King!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19584611.post-11493575180371747212008-06-18T22:36:00.000-04:002008-06-18T22:36:00.000-04:00In many cases, attorneys who do document review an...In many cases, attorneys who do document review and contract work do so by choice. <BR/><BR/>The reality is that finding clients who are willing to pay an attorney is pretty darn easy. Any attorney can walk into any tear-in-my-beer bar and pick up three or four divorces, criminal, and/or bankruptcy matters. Any attorney can walk into a seminar on financial planning or insurance and pick up three or four estate planning clients. The same goes for business start-up groups for business fomation and contracts and real estate seminars for real estate transactions. <BR/><BR/>Is it glamorous work? No. Does it pay well? Yes. It pays much better than document review or contract work. <BR/><BR/>Business cards, a cell phone, and some gumption are all an attorney really needs to make a very good living on their own. <BR/><BR/>But that is the key, very few attorneys are willng to step out of their comfort zones to go about being on their own. So they complain about how the legal profession won't let them in. That is nonsense. These attorneys need to quit complaining and go pick up some clients and start working.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19584611.post-90323202075024878092008-06-18T18:01:00.000-04:002008-06-18T18:01:00.000-04:00I keep thinking the idea of building more prisons ...I keep thinking the idea of building more prisons and jails, rather than schools isn't so bad.Maxine Weisshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18164122931399241972noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19584611.post-437578304787655582008-06-18T00:51:00.000-04:002008-06-18T00:51:00.000-04:00@ 10:25You have to bear in mind that lawyers are i...@ 10:25<BR/><BR/>You have to bear in mind that lawyers are innumerate and phenomenally stupid with money. Grammer school arithmatic will show you that most of thes guys make far less than $50 per hour spent in the office. They charge $300 to press Ctrl+F on an document request not because the work is hard, but because they can't manage cash flows.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19584611.post-43071749528204380102008-06-18T00:46:00.000-04:002008-06-18T00:46:00.000-04:00@9:16pmBecause I need to remind myself that droppi...@9:16pm<BR/><BR/>Because I need to remind myself that dropping out was the best decision of my life. This blog was picked up by the AP, so there will be alot of non-attorneys passing through here, you dope.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19584611.post-22785991961882663762008-06-17T23:50:00.000-04:002008-06-17T23:50:00.000-04:00Wow. $200 an hour for an attorney that doesn't ev...Wow. $200 an hour for an attorney that doesn't even know how to spell something? Where do you practice, fantasy land?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19584611.post-54734296874154714172008-06-17T23:29:00.000-04:002008-06-17T23:29:00.000-04:00How can an attorney earn $40K per year working ove...How can an attorney earn $40K per year working over 70 hours per week? <BR/><BR/>I am a solo attorney (becuase I couldn't find a job -- yep, bottom of my class at a third tier law school). I charge $200 per hour (which is low for my market) and I work about two to three hours per day (usually from my house, as I don't like to go to the office), for five days a week (usually). If you do the math, you will see that I earn about $100K a year. I could easily double this by working more hours if I chose to do so (maybe I will opt to do this some day, but not for now). <BR/><BR/>I am nothing special. Not even close. I just don't see how an attorney can earn $40K a year. They must be working 30 minutes a day or or charging their clients $5 hour or somehting!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com